I recall being asked by the bishop to talk in sacrament from as early as age 12. I felt like I had no choice but to say yes and give the talk. In the years following up until I left the church at 17, I was asked to talk at least once per year and/or give a piano solo. Looking back on this, I believe it to be a form of child abuse. I was so horrified and anxious on the day I was to deliver the talk or solo, yet I believed I couldn't say no or God would be disappointed in me. It was like I had a duty, even at that young age. How dispicable! When compared to giving a presentation at school, talking in church was 100 times more frigtening because I felt like every single word was being judged. How ironic. They wanted me to feel comfortable and loved, but I felt like if I messed up somehow, I would no longer be "worthy". What a load of shit!!

It wasn't until I was 16 or 17 that I realized, fuck this, I am going to say no! Why should I HAVE to talk in sacrament in front of hundreds of other people? Why should I have to come up with the speech myself and deliver it, despite the fear and anxiety it created for me?! I'm so pissed off about this, even 13 years later!!
Amy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2011 01:59PM by rosie.

Given that public speaking is rated as people’s #1 or #2 fear, there is no reason why anyone, including adults, should ever be coerced into speaking in front of their entire ward.

As an adult joiner of the church, I was told that the custom of having young people give a short talk in SM “instills confidence.” While I am sure that is true in some cases, it merely instills terror of public speaking in others. Having to speak was literally traumatic for you, rosie. That is why you are understandably still angry years later. At least there was a silver lining: You awoke to the true nature of the church at a much earlier age than most of us here did!

This is yet another case of the church forcing members to fit into a mold, whether it is a natural one for them or not.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2011 02:20PM by WiserWomanNow.

Exactly! I remember taking a speech/communications class in college and thnking "oh my god, I had no idea just how badly the church traumatized me until now". I was "good" at public speaking (because I had done it many times!), and aced the class, but the fear was so powerful it was almost paralyzing!

Has anyone ever tried to file a law suit against the church for these types of things? There have got to be many other adults who grew up in the church that share the same experience...

This is one positive thing that growing up lds has done for me. From a very early age I knew I would be expected to give those speeches and I was always very good at doing what was expected of me. So when asked to speak in front of a group today it is no problem.

Would you call speech class in high school or college abusive? In my child's school they start giving speeches in 3rd grade. They have to 3 times a year in front of the class. It is a good thing, I think, to become comfortable speaking in public.

However, I never really developed a fear of public speaking so this may be less traumatic to me than those who had. I am terrified of snakes-and doubt any amount of exposure would help lessen that. In fact, I can see repeated exposure to snakes would only increase my fear and apprehension.

Allwhowander, The dfference for me is that I felt I didn't have a choice. In school, I could have just received an "F" for not giving a presentation. At church, I felt I would be judged. I was the daughter of a single mother - this changed everything for me. The men in the church were my fatherly figures and I was terrified of disappointing them. Perhaps if I had been raised in the traditional nuclear family, this (and many other issues) wouldn't have been so traumatic for me.

I used to have to call people to pray in sacrament and the youth to give talks. Most had no problem with it, a few said no way. I didn't push it as I felt sorry for them. I really hated calling and asking. I think I hated calling people to give prayers and talks more than being asked.

So glad that is behind me.

I was afraid of speaking in church, too. I did it once, and decided that I never wanted to sweat bullets like that, ever again! My kids just flatly refused to ever give a talk. We never bore our testimony, either.

As an adult, I gave many public speeches. My son writes and teaches curriculum in adult education, and his classes and seminars are always filled to overflowing.

We do not--should not--give any credit to the Mormon Church for our speaking ability!

Most of us had to give at least one oral report a year in school, starting at elementary school, jr. high, high school, and college, anyway. Yes, these reports made the average student nervous, but the focus was on the hard work and factual content of the speeches--not on what you were wearing, or how some MorGod might be judging you.

The first really major speech I had to make, made me extremely nervous. Our advertising fliers had brought a shocking 300 people to our school auditorium. I was pleading for a good cause, that I had done research on, that I believed in with all my heart. After I presented my cause, and asked for people's support--they gave me (and my project) a standing ovation! What a faith-promoting story--except that I had NOT grown up speaking in Mormon sacrament meetings.

IMO, there's a reason kids don't like to speak in the LDS cult, and that is that it is nonsense. I agree that it is abusive to force kids to make sense out of nonsense! How can anyone make a good, clear, to-the-point speech, when the subject is so convoluted and the facts are so elusive and the "truth" keeps changing? "Yikes, my talk is about the Joseph Smith Story, help, which version do I use? My talk is about the temple, and I haven't been there yet? If I ask questions about any of this, no one will give me a straight answer, and they get mad."

I, who was too traumatized to talk in church, loved to act in plays, where I was acting out a role, and had a script. I experienced only the normal stage-fright. I also sang and performed on the piano in recitals, in the community, and won talent shows. But I never performed in church, and was only in the back chorus in the road shows. When they forced me to be an organist, the joy of music began to be sucked out of me. Now, I don't even touch the piano.

I went on to give a lot more speeches, as a member of the Board of Education, and give multi-media presentations at work. The secret is SINCERITY. My main goal is to inform and educate people. I have learned the facts for myself. I believe strongly in what I say. I have respect for the groups I'm talking to. (Keep it brief, clear, positive, and entertaining.)

Ha-ha! Do Mormons want everyone to learn to speak in the style of the GA's?

The trouble with being under 18 years of age is that parents, schools, religions, etc., can coerce, intimidate, use guilt and fear tactics, to manipulate people to do things they don’t want to do, such as speaking in church. It sounds like you eventually got a spine to stand up for yourself and became the captain of your own ship. Way to go - congrats!!

Perhaps it’s about individual responsibility for our choices and dealing with the consequences, rather than playing the victim card. I think that consenting to speak in church when you really are afraid to say “no” doesn’t rise to a level of abuse. If it does then you are complicit by making the commitment – no one is holding a gun to your head.

My 2¢ worth. Best wishes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2011 06:03PM by openeyes.

I must have been an a-hole or something because nobody ever asked me to talk in sacrament. I don't know what I would have done if they asked though. I had to give the closing prayer in YW a few times but that was it.

LOL Giner! Consider yourself fortunate

The worst is when there was time left over in sacrament meeting and my bishop would randomly pick people out of the congregation to go up and speak. He called me up once and I had no choice but to go straight up to the pulpit and talk a little bit then shared my testimony. Well, I guess I could have run out (which is what one teenage boy did in my ward when he was called on).

It was probably Mutual or Sunday School. She told him 'no'. (She couldn't be coerced into giving talks either).

The bishop just smiled (smirked) and when it came time to announce the closing he prayer, he said it would be given by my sister. She got up and walked out the door and has never been back in 50 years. (She also has resigned from the Cult even though she still lives in the morridor)

experiences in church that I did not mind. It gave me a chance to research, prepare, and deliver what I researched. It gave me public speaking experience that I did not gain elsewhere, even in the classroom growing up. I gave sacrament talks every 18 months to two years apart.

Everyone's experiences in life are different. I am sorry that your experience sucked on this situation. Realize that you have other talents and gifts that are valued.

Every time I read one of these threads about forced talks, bearing testimony, being a missionary, etc., I can only be thankful I was not born a Mormon, or I would have literally probably committed suicide.

I was forced to take a semester of speech in high school as it was required for graduation. I was a nearly straight A student but that the worst 4 months of my life and was nearly enough to push me over the edge, and that was in front of a class of 20 or so people I knew.

You can not "force" an extremely introverted person to be an extrovert, or even "comfortable" in situations like that as the Morg tries to do, by making them do it. As "allwhowander" said in their example about snakes, it only increases your fear.

For me, it was worse than being a "sink or swim" analogy of being thrown in the deep end of a swimming pool. It was like being a non-swimmer thrown in the Arctic Ocean at 33 degrees F. and being told, we'll be back to pick you up in an hour.

I had posted this a few months ago, but I think it's also appropriate here:

I remember that I was once assigned to give a talk - I think it was at sacrament meeting. I was about 13 - 15 years old or so. It was before they combined the meetings, and I think I was the 'warm-up' or the 'opening act' before the main speaker. I wrote out my 'talk' - three handwritten pages, word-for-word of what I was going to say. I got up and started to read it. After I finished the first page, I put it behind the other papers in my hand. I then looked up into the audience and I saw that no one seemed to be listening - parents were wrestling their babies, kids were playing around, and many of the adults had their eyes shut. I then put the second page under the other papers, too, (without reading it) and just went straight to the third page. I closed in the name of Jusus Christ, and sat down. After that talk, I received compliments from three different people as to how good my talk was. That's the first and only time I'd ever received any compliments on my 'talks'. Without that second page, I didn't think it had made any sense, but I guess brevity was more important than substance...

I think giving talks was good. I was scared, but no more so than when I had to do something similar in school. As a teacher, I a grateful I had the experience. However, I do think kids should be allowed to say no.The idea that you have to do everything the church asks is wrong. If I were a parent in the church and my kid were asked to speak, I would encourage them but I wouldn't force them

It's worth noting that 99% of the people in Sacrament meeting will barely be paying attention to what you say. Most will just get the general topic of it and then congratulate you on your talk on faith, or the atonement, or Joseph Smith. If you asked them what apostle you quoted, or the metaphor you used in the middle of the talk, they would most likely have no clue. And everyone will have forgotten about it after church is over anyway.

And for school presentations in front of classes, just realize that none of them are paying attention to you either. They are thinking of how nervous they are, how they don't want to go next, quickly going over the order of their presentation, etc etc. The only person you have to worry about is the teacher, as he will be the only one paying attention.

When I gave talks I always found it incredibly difficult to actually make a meaningful talk longer than 5 minutes. Let's be honest, there simply isn't enough doctrine in the Mormon culture to last 10+ minutes. If it goes longer it just gets into, "Here is another quote from a prophet about paying tithing. Oh and here's one from Joseph Smith about it. Oh yeah and another one saying the same thing in this verse here. But my FAVORITE tithing quote is found in this book. And here's a story of a widow who paid tithing when she was in debt and found $10,000 in her couch." Pointless pointless pointless!