I've only read a few posts but it seems like this forum has become far more political than when I was last here.
When I left Mormonism, the people here were mainly very rational, fair minded and seemed politically neutral. Now it seems like there's been a shift from the objective of deprogramming from cult think to the spreading of specific political cult think. If the church leant to the right, then this place has swung well and truly the other way rather than taking the middle ground.

To give you an idea how RfM seems to have changed; I'm gay, but despite being part of the LGBT etc acronym that today means "others", I feel like I will be attacked for stating my feelings on certain topics that have been discussed here, and it won't be conservatives doing the attacking.

Also, even with a ban on political discussion, it seems like it's perfectly fine to attack one political party here in ways that never used to be tolerated. I'm sure you can guess which party.

In addition, as a mixed race man with a Polynesian mother and white father, I'm shocked at how many posts are unashamedly racist towards white people and culture in ways that would be completely unacceptable if they were made about any other race.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

This place used to be a haven from intolerance. Now it's a place where politically correct intolerance is everywhere.

I'm still here for what it's worth.

Things that used to be just "political" aren't any more.

The politics and religious extremism are now one and the same.

White nationalist religious fundamentalists are using xenophobia, racism, and fear of 2SLGBTQIA+ to turn America into some kind of at best illiberal authoritarian or at worse Taliban/Ayatollah type religious fundamentalist state.

I don't say this lightly.

I'm sober serious.

They are a real threat to democracy and basic human rights, it's really happening, and this isn't make-believe.

Many people are scared, lives are being destroyed, families are fleeing, and aren't sure if it will be possible to remain in the USA and be safe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2023 03:47PM by anybody.

Well, it's not like they have guns.

The card says "Moops."

So there is a "middle ground" between right and wrong ? Tell us more.

ozpoof Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've only read a few posts but it seems like this
> forum has become far more political than when I
> was last here.
> When I left Mormonism, the people here were mainly
> very rational, fair minded and seemed politically
> neutral.

Hi ozpoof. I remember you from back in the day. It's always good to see former posters checking in.

I don't mean to be flippant but maybe things seemed "politically neutral" here because there was a strict no politics rule. As 'anybody' states, it's changed (but not to an extreme, imho). I used to say kind of laughingly that "everything's political" but it turns out that really the world does seem to be that way. Maybe part of the answer is that the globe is in total flux and things will settle down again.


Now it seems like there's been a shift
> from the objective of deprogramming from cult
> think to the spreading of specific political cult
> think. If the church leant to the right, then this
> place has swung well and truly the other way
> rather than taking the middle ground.

Maybe it's inevitable that a place reflects the atmosphere of those who inhabit it. Posters come and go and that can change up the topics and conversations.


> To give you an idea how RfM seems to have changed;
> I'm gay, but despite being part of the LGBT etc
> acronym that today means "others", I feel like I
> will be attacked for stating my feelings on
> certain topics that have been discussed here, and
> it won't be conservatives doing the attacking.

I would be very interested in your opinions, if they can be shared in ways that are not too political. I think maybe the goal at present is just don't be too blatantly political. I still see that type of post being removed so it's certainly not a free-for-all as far as exchanging views about politics.


> In addition, as a mixed race man with a Polynesian
> mother and white father, I'm shocked at how many
> posts are unashamedly racist towards white people
> and culture in ways that would be completely
> unacceptable if they were made about any other
> race.

In particular, I'd be interested in you giving an example of this occurring here. I haven't observed it myself and wonder what precisely you're referring to.

It's certainly true that posters here feel free to express their viewpoints firmly and, given the topics, passions can be stirred.


> Now it's a place where politically correct
> intolerance is everywhere.

I don't actually know what that is.


I'm sorry you're disappointed. I hope everything is going well for you down under.

Ozpoof, nice to see you. I'm a public school teacher in a deep Blue state, and a former 30 year member of the Republican party, which is something of an oxymoron, wouldn't you agree? I was always very middle of the road politically, and normally split my vote. I would say for many years, this board probably had no idea about my political views, or perhaps guessed in the wrong direction. But that changed when as a woman, I lost my reproductive rights, and even more so, with the attack on the U.S. Capitol building with the encouragement of the sitting president. The lives of our legislators, along with the sitting vice president, were threatened that day because the far right did not accept the presidential vote that had been recounted and validated numerous times. And a lot of what is happening on the far right is driven by religious extremists. I was "just down the road" from the attack on the Capitol, in Maryland, and I remember being terrified that day for the National Guard troops from my state that were sent in.

Along with you, I would love a return to the old days in which the Republican party was possessed of common sense, and I could listen to their candidates and consider their views.

The organized attack by the far right on the public schools is also atrocious. It doesn't matter how much I explain that we teach pretty much what we've always taught, just with better technology. As a public school teacher, I have become public enemy number one. And as someone who has worked long hours, and great dedication in my career field, for some of our most poverty stricken students, I deeply resent that.

In the public school system, we have always accommodated all sorts of students, including gays. I watched with appreciation over the years to see gay students be accepted as friends by the younger generation. I worked with gay parents, and even wrote a letter of support to the court to help one set of (exemplary) gay parents adopt their foster child. Yet now, that is apparently offensive to the religious extremists.

So yes, I am going to speak out when people's rights, including my own, are under attack by the religious right. Lottie is right that religion and politics have unfortunately become deeply intertwined. I wish that were not the case.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2023 05:26PM by summer.

summer's post brings up a good point - that there's a lot going on "down there" (the USA is down there to me from my perch up here in Western Canada).

It can be challenging as outsiders to know and completely understand the nitty gritty of all that's going on in America on the political scene. It's also challenging to discuss it at length here due to the no politics rule (which is at times relaxed somewhat, seemingly depending on circumstances, issues and how people are interacting about it). It kind of proves my longtime point (at least to me), that I've stated somewhat tongue-in-cheek, that absolutely every subject relates to politics.

The Mormon Church engages in politics so inevitably some subjects do venture into that territory.

I have noted particularly the intermingling of politics and religious faith in America (and somewhat in Canada of late - yow!) that seems more prominent now for various reasons and perhaps that is one of the major factors that has brought politics into our RfM discussions.

I was a JW for a few years right after high school (my first error on the religious front, moism being my second) and they have a firm stance against political involvement. Too, I didn't hear anything about politics during my brief mo stint (perhaps that is different in the US?).

I don't usually mix church and politics. I don't believe in block voting, or one-issue voting, or voting the way a preacher dictates. The only religious influence I have had about voting was abstaining from voting while I was a JW (as they teach their followers to be "no part of the world" which to them includes not being involved in the political process in any way, including voting).

So to me it's a strange phenomenon to see masses of people from certain faith groups block-voting, mixing Bible and Politics with equal fervour, and especially somehow seeing no clashes between their (assumed) beliefs and the political stances and personal integrity of those they choose to vote for.

To the point that I no longer refer to myself as evangelical. It, most unfortunately, has taken on new and negative connotations and I must separate myself from that. I think it's possible that the term isn't used the same way in Canada as in the USA in any case.

As 'anybody' says above, the issues in her country include basic human rights. We have some of the same types of upheaval in Canada but not as widespread and not to the same extent. So far. Maybe we're not as religious or as political. But I've certainly been dragged out of my stupor of thinking we've figured everything out and we're all on the same page and it's all all right.

Because, demonstrably, it is not.

And religion is part of it. And too, politics.

So the inevitable occurs. Even here at RfM (at the pleasure of the board owner of course, which has limits).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2023 06:12PM by Nightingale.

Nightingale, I think that the problem in the U.S. is an increasing sense of alarm among the most conservative Christians (i.e. the fundies and evangelicals) that Christianity is slowly losing its grip here, as it has in Europe. And they are not entirely mistaken about that. This sense of alarm has resulted in the fundies tightening their grip to the extent that they can do so. Politically, this has affected many parts of our society.

In the public schools, it's resulted in (for instance,) efforts to post the 10 Commandments in classrooms, even though the public schools are supposed to be religiously neutral.

Bigotry in various forms is also increasingly socially acceptable.

The imperative to enforce the lockstep approach is strong.

Getting scary.

I've always appreciated that place called middle ground. It seems to be shrinking.

And free will. Also a vanishing commodity, if some have their way.

I agree with you. I've always been a middle ground type.

It's also been interesting to see the Mormon church's response to all of the above. I think a lot of what's been happening on the far right is concerning even to the church leadership.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's also been interesting to see the Mormon
> church's response to all of the above. I think a
> lot of what's been happening on the far right is
> concerning even to the church leadership.

Why do you think so? I haven't been keeping up. Are they giving instructions about which lines to stand in? And which not?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2023 06:49PM by Nightingale.

I think it started in the 2016 presidential election, when a substantial number of Mormon Utahns voted for independent Evan McMullin, and more recently when the church advised members to evaluate candidates based on their own merits.

I will offer some indications.

1) Before the 2016 and 2020 elections the church had stake presidents and bishops read a letter to their congregations urging them to vote for candidates of good character, an admonition that would not in ordinary times have been necessary.

2) The church consistently fights for tolerance of immigrants both legal and illegal.

3) The church just sent out a letter telling members they should not vote party line but rather choose the best qualified candidates overall.

Those signals come as close to urging votes for moral, pro-immigrant politicians as possible without directly alienating the Ammon Bundy wing of the church.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the public school system, we have always
> accommodated all sorts of students,

The only thing most public schools teach properly is obedience to authority. They don't teach free thinking or individual rights, only to do as we're told.

Fast forward to the present day and look where that's got us. When you've got no individual rights, you got no collective rights.

It's Miles Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only thing most public schools teach properly is obedience to authority. They don't teach free thinking or individual rights, only to do as we're told.
> Fast forward to the present day and look where that's got us. When you've got no individual rights, you got no collective rights.

Perhaps you could explain better about what you mean by "obedience to authority." I have no idea what that means.

I had no idea what was meant by that either in this context.

Is it like traffic lights intending obedience to authority? Without traffic rules everyone would drive all over the place insisting on "individual freedom." Schools need some traffic lights. Someone needs to be driving the school bus! That still leaves plenty of areas for kids (and parents) to make choices for themselves.

Yes, exactly! We would never be able to run a classroom without some expectations, rules, and procedures in place. There are schools that allow for more individual student freedom, such as those run under the Montessori model. Most large districts in my area have at least one Montessori school as an option, but it's not for everyone.

Hey ozpoof! Nice to see you around. Yes, many things have changed here on the board and in the US since 2016/2017 when you were around. Eric has stepped back and CZ has taken over and he wants the board run in different ways. Stickies are at the top of the board. I wish I could move to Bundanoon and help with the wombats and not have to deal with all of this. I have made quite a few friends down your way in recent years and they have a hard time wrapping their heads around what is going on here too. There, teachers are not seen as the enemy and threatened, beloved children's books have not been banned, none of your reproductive rights have been taken away or challenged. Did you know that there is serios talk of making the birth control pill illegal?!? Health records have been turned over to nonmedical people with no consent? The list goes on and on. The lines between religion and politics have eroded beyond recognition. How do you feel about it being mandatory to have the ten commandments posted in schools? Can you please tell us what rights your citizens have lost in the last few years because I follow the news down there and I am not aware of any. So please, don't just be a "hit and run". Engage with folks and you may gain a better understanding of current conditions :)

Hi Susan

I do love your fascination with the Wombats of Bundanoon, so thought I should comment on your question to OP.

We observe American life from afar with a general feeling of trepidation, knowing that historically we have often adopted certain cultural trends with a 10 year delay.

At present though there is no sign of the Christian right gaining influence. In fact our political system is working to marginalise them. Reproductive rights are thankfully rock solid here and the federal and state governments are nearly all run by the centre left Labor party.

Things will get rockier if/when the next recession arrives, but for the time being things are fairly stable.

Some of my friends have very interesting and colorful ways to discuss what is going on here and how crazy they think it is. It amazes me how we speak the same language but in such different ways! I love that "rat bag" is a term of endearment. I would love to live in Bundanoon. It's so beautiful and such a great community. If you ever go that way let me know and I will make sure you have a nice time :)

Thanks Susan, I have been there and done some bushwalking, back in the day, and my mother still has a friend who lives there. I now live about 3000 kilometres (many miles) to the west so no short term plans to visit again.

I think 'ratbag' equates to 'harmless, slightly crazy eccentric' and I wouldn't exactly call it a term of endearment, ie I wouldn't describe my wife as one to her face (although maybe behind her back).

When it comes to trans rights, I get a little touchy since my girlfriend is trans. That, the fact I'm a bisexual male, and our constant committing the sin of loud laughter together makes us public enemies to Mormons and the far-right in the U.S. Meanwhile, I just want to be able to afford a nice place for us to live and for us to have more accessibility (she walks with a cane and neither of us can drive) in our day to day lives.

I'd go into further detail about us, but this is Recovery from Mormonism, not a "One Piece" (she got me hooked on it) forum.

Ozproof, good to see you. I come here every once in a while. I saw a sudden spike in political discussion, mainly centered around LGBT issues.

I'm one of those guys who grew up conservative, left Mormonism, but the only thing that changed is that I don't believe in Mormonism anymore. I just got a 10% raise and Sundays off. I even have a few Mormon friends.

What I have seen is a very vigorous defense of the LGBT community and liberal political thought, and anybody who says they don't agree gets piled on. I even posted some thoughts, and that post was deleted.

I'm glad to discuss Mormonism and why I left, but it seems that some exmos decide to not just reject Mormonism, but to embrace everything that the Mormon church rejects.

I'm also happy to discuss LGBT rights, as long as the discussion is had in good faith without attacks.

Observing many exmos over time, the pendulum can swing the completely opposite way sometimes. This is not everybody. Some of us just leave Mormonism and reject its religious teachings, but we are basically the same people.

I'm not even saying that rejecting Mormon thought is a knee-jerk reaction. There are some very thoughtful people who go through their thought system, and one by one reject things they were taught in Mormonism. I totally respect that. But I do reject anything that comes from a knee-jerk reaction.

Live and let live. Having thoughts that others don't agree with is not bad.

Like ookami (is that Japanese for wolf?), I have also committed the sin of loud laughter today. I was listening to Bill Maher on Club Random, and it was funny. I had my airpods on, and I was walking down a busy Tokyo street. I'm sure the locals thought I was odd, but I don't care.

Be nice to each other. Cheers!

I asked ookami about it years ago and recall him confirming that it was indeed "wolf."

He can correct me if my recall is inaccurate.

It does. I chose the screenname because I always thought it was tragic how the Honshu wolf was hunted to extinction.

One of the things about leaving Mormonism is trying to figure out what and who I like for myself. Turns out I like people who are kind and I can laugh with regardless of gender or melanin levels.

I'll try to be calmer when the topic of LGBTQ+ rights comes up, unless someone posts something completely stupid.

>> It does. I chose the screenname because I always thought it was tragic how the Honshu wolf was hunted to extinction.

Ah, yes. The Honshu wolf. It's a sad story.

Great screen name.

Looking forward to fascinating discussions.

Cheers!

This board like all other boards became a dinosaur when social media became the main means of online interaction. Due to having a dedicated base that wants the board to continue it has.

What I’ve noticed is with this board and other boards that have survived the discussion does lean more political. It’s just something to discuss besides the rehash of what’s wrong with the LDS Church. Politics is always changing and becomes a bigger issue during socially agitated times.

"what’s wrong with the LDS Church".
I agree with you, most of the topics have been rehashed but it's other issues that keep me interested. I sometimes hear new things and opinions which makes me do the research. The forum has the same problem all forums do, initially the topic is presented and discussed intelligently and then someone turns it political. I follow a baseball forum and the politics enters there much too often for my taste.

I think the gay rights movement got hijacked by operatives and it became the current LGBTQ+ disaster and it’s being used as a distraction and social agitation tool. We have some corrupt people who don’t want Joe Public to figure out how much they have been stealing. So they start all sorts of social agitating shit.

Divide and conquer. It’s an old game and they certainly have the country divided.

I've always said, the parties (both) get you agitated on the small subjects so you won't notice they are stealing you blind.

There is a good meme that I've seen before, and it's hit my inbox again recently.

Imagine Morpheus from The Matrix holding the red pill and the blue pill.

Caption:

WHAT IF I TOLD YOU
THAT BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES WORK FOR THE SAME CORPORATIONS?

Hi ozpoof.

Your observations ring many bells for me. In part I think there are fewer new people here and everything Mormonesque has been said too many times. Which opens up the forum to those with a non-Mormon agenda and no where to take it. We have become the Mountain Top from which they preach. I miss the old forum and try to avoid as many of the Off-Topics as possible. But sometimes they push a button and bam. The off-topic posts are the ones that get the most responses.

When you said . . .

"In addition, as a mixed race man with a Polynesian mother and white father, I'm shocked at how many posts are unashamedly racist towards white people and culture in ways that would be completely unacceptable if they were made about any other race."

I agree. Many don't see it or don't want to see it but I think some of us having been where we have been read between the lines more easily than others. Intentional or not that does exist here.

It seems many believe in order to champion someone they feel they need to take someone else down. Humankind is such that they love their winners and you can't have a winner without a loser and the new loser has been chosen.

I learned early. When I was a kid I was in fist fights all the time being bullied for being gay. At one point when I was bigger and stronger I bullied back by shoving someone. That sickened me and I was ashamed I had done it. But I knew in that moment that was something that happens a lot. The bullied often want to be the bulliers. They want payback. They want to be the winners in the end. And they see doing what was done to them as the way and the light.

My answer to this with my very wide range of employees of all types is that we have no titles--just responsibilities. I push teamwork and nothing else. When something goes wrong, we just get it fixed. No need to decide who was at fault.

The U.S. is divided and broken. I just hope no other free country follows our lead. I don't believe it is fixable. And so we tend to discuss bigger issues than the scam of Mormonism.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2023 10:14AM by anybody.

There was a recent incident in my locale that sent at least one of the victims to the hospital. Yes, it still happens. And I live in a fairly liberal area.

I don't understand your comment in light of what I posted.

That some people don't want others to exist is not something you can forget in today's world.

Your statement seems to me to say, "oh, there's not alot to worry about, yes things are bad, but there's no real threat, move along, move along."


I don't know what your experience has been, but the threats are very, very, very real.


I've had personal friends who had to flee their home state because death threats and/or threats from the state to take their children.

I've had friends who are afraid for their lives -- and their futures -- and are desperately attempting to seek asylum in other countries.


Religous fundamentalists are openly discussing some kind of theocratic state or takover of the USA.


So, yes, I'm afraid.

Very afraid.

"I am not a member of any organized political party — I am a Democrat. ” ― Will Rogers, said this a long long very long time ago. It is truer today than it was then.

The last thing I would say is, "Oh there is not a lot to worry about . . ." The country is divided but one side is highly organized and will stop at nothing while the other side won't stop looking at their phones and think playing nice is the way to go.

We have not been a democracy for quite a while now. Our only hope is if the Koch brothers decide to make it one again.

Just want to thank you for making such a great site full of well intentioned members who aren’t afraid to stand for what we believe in. I wish I could say this about everybody here. I found this sight as I struggled to continue in my stake calling, assistant communications director, kissing up to evil politicians and the like. But it has helped me tremendously as I know I’m not alone in my concerns for my faith, freedom, family, & country.
I was raised LDS, my parents had missionaries knock on their door early in their marriage in the UP of Michigan. We grew up in rural northern MN. My parents were very faithful members, driving some 40 mi to church each week. I loved the church. Still love the people who helped raise me in civility throughout the struggles of the Cold War. Fast forward and marriage to my husband brought me to different locations as we went through undergrad in the Midwest, then med school, then residency in NYC, then more training in VA, finally settling down in the Rocky Mountains. Incidentally, we lived the first 10 yrs of our marriage in the Nauvoo stake, then Kirkland and then to NY but not cumorrah. I’m the proud mother of 3 stellar kids, all young adults now making their own way through life. Our oldest has left the church but is active in her new church & a better example of a Christian than most I meet. Another daughter is finishing up school and our son is getting ready to head to college.
I woke up to “the awful situation” during the Covid lockdown and just like some on here did my own research and it’s led me to many truths I can no longer ignore. Thank you letting me be a part of this much needed community where I learn so much from your wise words. They give me courage & hope and hopefully I can do the same.

Welcome to the board! We're glad to have you here.

... I'm going to have to start charging by the word ...

I don't understand the trend lately here to try to police the tone and topics here... Like, I swear I feel dejavu from just a few months ago someone else posted this exact same topic.

"I'm returning after a long absence and boy this place has changed! For no reason, seemingly, people seem more left leaning! For shaaaaaame RFM. You used to cater to my own standards of ex-Mormonism."

Because THAT'S what happened when we all left the cult, right? We became a new type of monolith.

...and I've been doing some checking. Using the site's search feature, I found that the last time Ozpoof posted was 5 years ago (in response to another post), and the last time he started his own thread was 6 years ago. And the topic of that thread? The possible removal of the tax-exempt status of the Roman Catholic church by the Australian government and the implications it could have on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. While I don't know if that action was ultimately successful against either the Catholics or Mormons, it did show that Ozpoof wasn't immune to discussing religious/political issues on this forum back in the day.

We’re too this or too that. We should have pictures and billboards like PostMo!

It’s like the folks who like The Good Ole Days that weren’t.

Someone’s always got a beef.

People come here with a beef and find textured vegetable protein. ;-)

    I like RfM!  I would really, really miss it.  Reddit exmo just doesn't have the same je n'ai sais quoi!!

    I ignore stuff that I find ignorable and engage in stuff for either the right or wrong reasons, both of which I'm okay with.

    I've had posts deleted...  A few years ago, a now departed poster and I got into a hissy-fit/brawl/exchange that, when I signed off around 2:00 a.m., had reached 143 brawling posts/exchanges.  

    The next morning there were 17 posts still extant!!  The Dutchess of Windsor would have been fine with those posts.

Ah yes. . .

Weren't you married to her at one point?

oof, no!  That would have been venomous!!

I used to wonder what you two would talk about at your tea parties...

Mainly just her memories, doubtless biased in some respects, of your time together.

Good to see you, again! I think that you raise a fair point.

I absolutely and totally agree. I used to visit this site daily, but now come here maybe three times a year because it’s gone so far left. RFM seems to be a political site now.

It's not taxes, government spending (except how so-called "christians" and Mormons who claim to follow Jesus want to deny health care to people), defence policy, or anything like that.

Think for a moment.

Who is banning books?

Who is denying reality?

Who falsely clames the constitution is "divinely inspired" and that the founding fathers were "God's Annointed" on Earth?

Who wants theocracy and wants what they call "the Law Of God" to be one and the same with the laws of the state?

Who preches racism and divine favourtism?

I'm tired of people talking about left vs right in this year, after all that has changed, after all that has been taken, and they want to act like fascists and bigots should be given the same amount of speaking time and consideration as those who are fighting for empathy and the right to exist.

For the last time: it is not a "simple difference of opinion" to defend a position that certain groups of people shouldn't have the right to exist.

If folks don't like the content here, try posting something related to your Mormon experience.

Very few do.

It has changed. But before information was hard to come by to get the truth. Now there are so many sources available it caused the board to change.

Also so many of my favorite posters have left after healing and new posters appear. Different personalities treat different people differently.


I have seen the support lessen and the discussions increase.

But it is still here helping people even if in different ways.

Also in the early 2000s and 2010s when Eric did a fundraiser his goal was met in a day or two. Now it goes on for over a week and still does not meet goals. It saddens me so many use the board and few help to keep it up

I have to point out that, IIRC, the goal was both met and exceeded last time around.

Hey, just kidding, it wasn't me.  

I always give the same amount every drive, $6.66.  It's easy to remember... it's the total of Gladys Lot's weight, height, hips, waist, bust, neck, sleeve, instep, and hat size, plus her IQ.  As they say, the devil is in the details.

D'oh!