Early this week I spent a few days visiting friends near Salmon, Idaho. Around 2011 a group of Amish moved into the area and have established a community there. These might be termed new order Amnish because while they use the traditional black buggy they do use a motor driven passenger van for periodic shipping trips to Idaho Falls more than two hours away or to visit other Anish communities in places like Gardiner, Montana. My friends had them build their new home. They gave him a fixed quote for the building but upon completion they returned 3,000 dollars because it came in under budget. They built it quickly and the craftsmanship is superb.

I thought you were going to say it was over budget so your friends had to pay more as so often happens. What a happy surprise for them, K.

I guess Idaho is as close as they can get to living in the past.

dagny Wrote:
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> I guess Idaho is as close as they can get to
> living in the past.

Try North Dakota, they do it with few mormons.

The Amish are excellent wood workers. We had some Amish make some bedroom furniture for us.

They make beautiful quilts too and have a unique color palette.

But always with one tiny mistake, because only god is perfect

https://nativemaxmagazine.com/indian-countrys-new-chain-game/

Japanese ceramics

Persian prayer rugs usually have a tiny bird or tree hidden in the calligraphy.

Ain’t nuthin new under the sun.

anonynon Wrote:
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> But always with one tiny mistake, because only god
> is perfect

The opposite philosophical view is that ultimate beauty lies in the uniquely broken, in the individuality of things.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=wabi+sabi+art&iax=images&ia=images

...and...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=kintsugi&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

Most of those are not "deliberate" mistakes but rather the use and enhancement of what has already broken.

There's a western parallel: Plato had his heavenly ideals, perfect images that humans must strive to approximate, whereas Aristotle thought the focus should be on the idiosyncratic individual.

Japan is different. With its animist and Shinto history came a belief that even the gods (kami) were unique and local, particular, associated with a spring or river or a uniquely mangled tree.

It follows that a perfectly manufactured ceramic does not lose its beauty simply because it shatters into pieces. Instead, the dignity of the original and its transformation under natural forces increases the artistic, religious, and emotional appeal.

You could use glue to repair a broken cup but the only fitting way to put something wondrous back together is with gold, which recognizes the galvanic way in which chance has combined human and natural aesthetics.

Here's the real story (j/k):

Darn, I messed up! Oh well, I'll just add some God lore and I won't have to correct it or sell as a second.

Amish don't drive vans. They hire vans to take them places.

From what I understand, they have outsiders drive them, and when necessary, make phone calls on their behalf. They have a name for outsiders, perhaps gentiles or something similar. They operate a market in my area which sells a wide variety of tasty food and baked goods. They also sell furniture and quilts. I would describe the food as being hearty farm fare. If you lead a sedentary lifestyle, you have to proceed accordingly. A van brings them down from Pennsylvania each day the market is open -- I think it's from Thursday to Saturday.

They have a somewhat mixed reputation in these parts. They have also been known for running puppy mills in the past, which is frowned upon around here -- I don't know if they're still doing that. But they keep to themselves, and are reasonably pleasant and business-like at the market.

They have a store close to their community just outside Salmon.

When we visited Pennsylvania, locals told us the outbuildings of the Amish farms that look a bit like an outhouse are where they store their cell phones. So they use current technology. They just like to hide the fact.

We have Mennonites here in East TN. We occasionally buy some produce from them at their market. They also have a corner at the market where they display their brochures. One in particular was interesting - It was 3 pages preaching that women should not be educated. Sigh.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2023 09:17AM by Eric K.

Oh, that's funny about the cell phones! I know that their relationships with the outside community in Pennsylvania are not always smooth. And as for education, my impression is that they do a decent enough job in their privately run schools, but those schools only go up to the 8th grade. That leaves the youth who decide to leave the church in a tough spot.

I believe they will use cell phones and even computers if necessary for their business dealings. But they don't want to bring that world into their homes, hence a place outside to leave them.

That seems dumb to me.

It reminds me of all the outdated Jewish laws certain Jews invent workarounds for to use so they can pretend they are in compliance. It's comical at best.

They seem to have a dilemma problem with spirit of the law and letter of the law.

It's one thing to cherry pick and be a hypocrite about it. At least it shows a spine that someone can control the religion instead of letting the religion control them, IMO.
It's quite another to pretend that's not what they're doing.

I lived in Lancaster, PA - Amish Heartland - for 30+ years. That area is rich in the history of the various Anabaptist sects who fled the post-Reformation persecutions in Europe. There are many variations of "plain people." In terms of technology, they cannot sell milk without proper cooling. So, electricity is allowed in barns but not houses, as an example.

Human problems - same as anyone else. They are a fairly closed society, but that varies also. For those interested in genetic disorders, check out The Clinic for Special Children website in Strasburg, PA. It was founded by a friend of ours, pediatrician Holmes Morton. My husband was one of the few pathologists the Amish allowed to perform an infant autopsy (had to be done within 24 hours of death) to diagnose specific genetic disorders.

I respect the Amish and other plain people, but I don't idolize them. They do some things very well.

I also spent some years in lancaster (as well as elizabethtown). The local sexual offenders maps always showed a lot of amish men. Just like the rest of the world, the've also got a spectrum of societal ills.

The Old Order Amish in this area refer to non-Amish, outsiders as "english."

If you need a 50# bag of popcorn or steel-cut oats, they offer the best prices in the area at their store. They operate a cut-price grocery store run without electricity (oil lanterns, sky lights and battery cash registers), selling dented cans, left-over items and boxed foods near their expiration date. There is a chilled room with pie crusts, cheese and vegetables. Terrific prices.

Their grocery store accessible only by gravel roads has fresh-baked bread, pastries and pies for sale. There are wedding registry tables for couples within the community. Chickens in the courtyard area and hitching posts for horses/buggies.

This state has a lot of Amish (and they set up a more distant community about 15-20 years ago in an area formerly without any Amish) and is also one of the worst for puppy mills.

"English," that's the word. Sorry to hear about the puppy mills.

Don't think their designation meets muster. At least not so far as most of you are concerned.

Some/most mennonites don’t use buggies. Some do. Most Amish do. Most of the PA Dutch folks in a farmer’s market are Mennonites.

The only way to know for sure is to look at their bonnets and memorize all the different types. There are many.

No pockets or zippers? Most likely Amish. Driving a car, van or truck? Most likely Mennonites.

Not robbing your friend blind? Good business decision especially when they are establishing themselves in a new area.

The PA Dutch in, well, PA are selling their farms because they can’t survive as they used to, and they are getting decent money for them. Then they move West. Some stop in Ohio ans Illinois. MD and PA share a border, so that’s how some ended up there. They may have started in NY. I’m not sure. But PA is bordered by NY, NJ, MD, WV, OH and KY, and the PA Dutch migrated like a lot of groups.

They have issues with Founders Effect, and that might be part of the reason some are more open to the English. There is also a lot of domestic violence and there are beefs in the most-insular sects.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2023 08:25PM by Beth.

The Amish are nothing more than "just another Cult". Sure, this cult makes nice furniture and they drive buggies but I'm sure they have the same issues as everybody else. They just don't advertise their problems.

(of a non-sexual nature), and psychological abuse, no one would be singing their praises.

They put the shun into shunning, and there you are, in the world, with a pisspoor education. Think ultra orthodox Jews or maybe some TBM families.

The Plain People’s Podcast casts light on an insular community, details criminal activity, and, you know, provides support.

https://www.theplainpeoplespodcast.com/

EOD’s second-favorite site that shall not be named also has a recovery group.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2023 12:42AM by Beth.

I don’t have a problem with the Amish. They aren’t trying to take over or push their beliefs on me. They have some unique skills that are interesting and produce some products I like.

Even the old order amish, the swartzentruber amish, etc. are fine with being the passenger in a car or a bus. They're not anti-tech, they're against being on the grid. They don't use cars and electricity and other conveniences because they value self-reliance. They have crank-generators, for instance.

Rural southern Manitoba (and it’s nearly all rural) is thick with Mennonites. I never saw a buggy. They all drove motorized vehicles. The distances were just too vast up there.

The joke about North Dakota is that’s where Mennonites go to drink. Sort of like Wendover for Mormons. :)