There's a heat wave in the Arctic.

Canadian aboreal forest is burning.

The desert Southwest is running out of water.

Invasive plants and species are taking over Florida.

Summer temperatures are way above average and climbing.

Changing weather patterns have intensified storms and flooding.

But religious fundies still think it's a "hoax."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2023 04:25PM by anybody.

They need to build a bigger ark.

It’s not just religious fundies. My New Age Sister says NOAA is lying when they reported last week the Earth broke record 3 x’s in one week for hottest average temp. I asked her why they’d lie about that. She thinks they want to sell us solar panels and wind turbines. She also thinks that rising greenhouse gasses and Carbon Dioxide levels are a good thing because plants need it to produce oxygen for us.
Like I told her,”We’ve witnessed the glaciers on Mt Rainier recede up the mountain over a mile in our lifetime. I’d have to deny what we’ve Both witnessed to believe what you’re saying, that the Earth is cooling.”

It seems as though Everything is 'political' these days, 'eh?

They won't change until Jesus comes back. That's our reality.

Sadly, yes.

The weather in central Maryland has taken a weird turn over the past few years. Normally, we have a generally mild, four season climate. Maybe five or six years ago, the winter snow started to turn drier, almost like western snow. Then for the past 2-3 years, we've gotten almost no snow at all, just dustings here and there. This past year, for the first time in 25-30 years, my school system had no winter closures whatsoever.

This summer is weirdly rainy. It won't quit. It's like Maryland and Seattle have switched places.

I don't know what to make of it. Is it a just a statistical glitch, or a sign of things to come? No one knows.

Just ignore the deniers. That’s the best way to deal with them.

I am sure the deniers wish they could just ignore the pushers. But they can't ignore the changes in their lifestyle demanded by the pushers.

Can they ignore the changes in their lifestyle caused by climate change?

That's it... Many people don't believe any change in their lifestyle will have any effect on the climate. Wild others believe the exact opposite.

I can walk everywhere and eat a plant based diet for the rest of my life and climate change will keep marching on. I am not doing any part.

Corporations and billionaires need to drive this charge. They are the ones feed propaganda to the christers who will believe whatever they are told. Fundies will change their tune when the marching orders change.

Hire ChurchCos PR firm to re-package CC aka Global Warming!!

Put a shiny wrapper on it topped by a bow.

Already done, went from global warming to climate change, and now to climate crisis... what's next climate chaos?

Each scarier sounding than the last...... sky is falling?

Insurance companies will get their attention.

Two major companies (State Farm and Allstate?) recently announced they will stop writing homeowners policies in California.

Many companies have stopped writing flood policies in Florida. The state is now the insurer of last resort. Florida is one major hurricane away from a complete collapse of their real estate insurance market.

In Utah, a major home insurer just announced they will stop writing fire insurance in Summit County (Park City area).

Without insurance coverage, lenders will not issue mortgages. And the insurance companies don’t give a rat’s *** about your politics. They’re just putting a price on risk.


I once saw a pilot license and noted that there is no expiration date printed on it. I asked if that means that once you get the license, you can fly for the rest of your life? The pilot laughed and said it is not the FAA that decides whether you can fly or not. It is the insurance companies.

(The FAA does require physicals at certain intervals)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2023 10:44AM by Brother Of Jerry.

Yes, I've seen news pieces about the insurance difficulties in certain areas. My question is, would people make the connection to the climate crisis, though?

I was at my brother's house over the 4th of July weekend. He lives along the bay, and he was discussing a neighbor's eroding shoreline. Based on personal knowledge, he estimated that it would take about $50K to fix the situation so that the neighbor can maintain his property lines. Living in areas where you are constantly battling mother nature can be an ongoing challenge.

This is a good teachable moment for deniers. Just ask them why they think insurance companies are pulling out of certain areas. Don’t give them any clues. Let them work through it and see what they come up with.

There have been so many teachable moments.

Important to me was the point about twenty years ago when Russia, the US, and other major military powers expanded their arctic fleets and started shipping goods over the top of the world. It was also about that time that the major oil companies massively increased their investments in the arctic at the expense of other parts of regions.

I don't know about you, but I when I think about woke snowflakes, the Russian army and Shell Oil aren't the first entities that come to mind.

The climate has always changed. Ever heard of an ice age?.

True, but this is the first time that we know of where humans are responsible for the change. Your mom ever teach you to clean up your own messes? It's like that. We are making the mess, we need to fix it.

I'm sure glad that it's been proven that humans are responsible for climate change. Imagine if people didn't "trust the science" and thought that other things could be causeing climate change. Chaos ensues.

and want the best treatments that medical science has to offer -- but if the same doctor or scientist tells them that a foetus isn't a living person yet or that trans kids have different brain development and it's not a hoax, they don't believe them.

Saying temperatures go up and down in the forest every day does not constitute proof there is not a forest fire that needs attention.

Concepts like "average" seem beyond the comprehension of many posters.

Ever heard of an ice age?.

Wow, no, I had to google it. Turns out it was 2.4 million years ago and lasted for 11,000 years. I will have to store up a lot of wheat to get through another one.

Um, your Ice Age stats are bass-akwards. The most recent one lasted about 100,000 years, and ended about 12,000 years ago, give or take. It is part of a string of ice ages that go back about a million years.

The deniers are in pretty serious retreat. They are still making some pro forma noises, but their heart really isn’t in it anymore.

Now they can argue about what to do about it, which is at least an argument that can be rational.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/12/us/florida-ocean-heat-coral-bleaching-climate/index.html


Ocean heat around Florida is ‘unprecedented,’ and scientists are warning of major impacts




A sudden marine heat wave off the coast of Florida has surprised scientists and sent water temperatures soaring to unprecedented highs, threatening one of the most severe coral bleaching events the state has ever seen.

Sea surface temperatures around Florida have reached the highest levels on record since satellites began collecting ocean data. And the warming is happening much earlier than normal – yet another example of ocean heat being amplified by the human-caused climate crisis and the extreme weather it brings.

“We didn’t expect this heating to happen so early in the year and to be so extreme,” Derek Manzello, a coordinator at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Coral Reef Watch, told CNN. “This appears to be unprecedented in our records.”

The exceptional temperatures – close to 97 degrees Fahrenheit in some areas – are more than just another alarming climate record; extreme ocean heat and its duration are critical in deciding the survival of coral reefs. Temperatures that are too hot for too long cause coral to bleach, turning a ghastly white as they expel their algal food source and slowly starve to death.

Florida is losing more than just the coral. Coral reefs generate billions of dollars for Florida’s economy through activities like fishing and tourism, which wouldn’t be possible without reefs to protect the species that rely on them.

“Just from an ecological standpoint, about 25% of the marine species depend on coral reefs at some point in their lives,” Lesneski said. “That’s everything from the pretty fish that people like to look at to the large game fish … those fish get their start and heavily depend on other components of the reef at some point in time.”

Florida’s latest coral crisis is just another symptom of the broader threat of climate change, which could wipe out all of Earth’s coral reefs by 2100, a recent study found.

“What we’re looking at right now is another cut in a death by a thousand cuts,” Manzello said.

“Ocean warming is only getting worse, bleaching events are getting more frequent, so it’s really an existential crisis for coral reefs as we know them.”

Not just coral is endangered. Hot ocean water is the fuel that drives hurricanes. Expect some doozies.

I greatly appreciate the fact that scientific erudition exists so that we are able to avail ourselves of the precision of "doozies"!!!

The Cat's pet bonobos can only squat and scratch in awe!

Doozie is a technical term named after Count Rudolph von Dusenburg, who had a shallow moat around his castle, and the drawbridge had long since rotted away.

There is a sign at the castle gate warning people "Watch that first step. It's a Doozie."

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's a heat wave in the Arctic.
>
> Canadian aboreal forest is burning.

There's a wildfire today on Mt. Seymour in North Vancouver. That is getting close enough to get people's attention in the cities. We're so used to the fires being up country. Officials are also concerned about our crown jewel, Stanley Park, due to high heat and zero precipitation. I love that place. I'm not alone in that, of course.

From the Climate Atlas of Canada:

https://climateatlas.ca/forest-fires-and-climate-change

"Fire is a seasonal summer threat because it can only start, intensify, and spread in hot, dry weather. Findlater reflects that “as a mayor, I don’t really look forward to summer in the way most people do.” He notes that as climate change brings on longer, drier summers, Canadians will have to live with more and more risk of more and more serious wildfires, and that we have to take decisive steps to manage the growing danger.

Climate Change and Fire Weather

"When forest fire researcher Mike Flannigan looks ahead at what climate change means for wildfires in Canada, he doesn’t beat around the bush: “in a word, the future is smoky.

"Flannigan has been studying fire for over thirty years. He’s researched the key ingredients of destructive wildfires – fuel, ignition, and weather – all over the world. His work, and the work of hundreds of other researchers, shows that climate change is predicted to worsen all three ingredients across most of Canada, making global warming a triple threat to our forests.

"Fire is a seasonal summer threat because it can only start, intensify, and spread in hot, dry weather. Findlater reflects that “as a mayor, I don’t really look forward to summer in the way most people do.” He notes that as climate change brings on longer, drier summers, Canadians will have to live with more and more risk of more and more serious wildfires, and that we have to take decisive steps to manage the growing danger.

Climate Change and Fire Weather

"When forest fire researcher Mike Flannigan looks ahead at what climate change means for wildfires in Canada, he doesn’t beat around the bush: “in a word, the future is smoky.”

"Flannigan has been studying fire for over thirty years. He’s researched the key ingredients of destructive wildfires – fuel, ignition, and weather – all over the world. His work, and the work of hundreds of other researchers, shows that climate change is predicted to worsen all three ingredients across most of Canada, making global warming a triple threat to our forests."

-----

I'm also reading "the hottest day ever recorded" in various areas. It has a doomsday ring to it.

Given the nature of the site I suppose it is understandable that the focus would be on "relgious fundies". They make a good whipping boy even although outside their ability to vote they have no more control over the issue than any other group. One site I checked indicated that aspproximately 90% pf papers skeptical of climate change come from right wing think tanks. The site gave no indication of religious leaning. Since many would claim that "fundies" lack thinking skills perhaps this leaves them out.

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One site I checked indicated that
> aspproximately 90% pf papers skeptical of climate
> change come from right wing think tanks. The site
> gave no indication of religious leaning.

An excellent point.

I think this quote from Billy Graham supports your view and mine:

“I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it.”

The trick is getting certain EVs to see when they are being manipulated. I think the hard right gave the fundies the pro life bone they wanted, and now the fundie types will do anything for them. It's frightening.

Plus, as a TBM I never understood the idea that "God wouldn't let humans destroy the planet." I always thought humans being given stewardship of the Earth meant humans were also responsible for taking care of the place.

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Given the nature of the site I suppose it is
> understandable that the focus would be on
> "relgious fundies". They make a good whipping boy
> even although outside their ability to vote they
> have no more control over the issue than any other
> group. One site I checked indicated that
> aspproximately 90% pf papers skeptical of climate
> change come from right wing think tanks. The site
> gave no indication of religious leaning. Since
> many would claim that "fundies" lack thinking
> skills perhaps this leaves them out.


I'm not saying religion per se causes climate change denial.

I am saying that a tenet of far-right EV religious fundamentalism is climate change denial -- as well as the denial of evolution and of science and fact-based objective reality in general.


https://rucore.libraries.rutgers.edu/rutgers-lib/51571/PDF/1play/

Denial of climate change being caused by human activity, or anthropogenic climate
change, is thought to be divided between political lines with Republicans generally denying
climate change while Democrats believing that climate change not only exists but is caused, at
least in part, by humans. There appears to be a correlation between being religious and being a
climate change denier. According to a Pew Research poll, 47 percent of Catholics acknowledge
that climate change is anthropogenic, with 62 percent of Catholic Democrats but only 24 percent
of Catholic Republicans believing in the anthropogeneity of climate change. The source of this
denial may be that the deniers believe that that man is all that is to be valued. Imago Dei, the
predominant intrinsic value system of religious monotheists, excludes non-humans, leading to
neglect of the environment, even if it is closely tied to human beings. We have examined further
this relationship between religion, the imago dei intrinsic value system, and anthropogenic
climate change. Converting anthropogenic climate change deniers may be a matter of including
the environment as being inseparable from human life, so that those that hold imago dei close,
can now start taking care of the world they live in.


There is a correlation between being religious (usually the data are focused on Christians) and
being a climate change denier. This is an extension from Imago Dei and the evolution argument.
Because Imago Dei prioritizes man over anything else, the claim, whether it is true or not, that
man is no different from animals and that they follow the same laws, has led to some tension
between the two groups. According to a poll, only a third of Americans believe the truth value of
Evolution (6). Victor Stenger also makes a link between the kinds of “belief” in evolution. He
generalizes and says that Christians don’t believe in the scientific consensus, but in a quasi-
evolution: they do not believe that man is a random occurrence, but that there was a divine will
associated (6). In fact, the very idea of man being a happenstance appears to incite some
indignation among the group, causing a counter movement that both deny Evolution as well as
Climate Change. It is interesting that Climate Change is also at the center of this battle, but the
subtlety appears to be this: they do not deny that the climate is warming, or at least many don’t,
but the fact that man is causing it, that is the issue. But with the shifting of attack to climate
change, the consequences are much greater: whether or not someone believes evolution is a fact,
it will continue to work whether or not it is believed. Climate change, however, if someone
doesn’t believe in it, will continue to contribute to it. A denial of evolution harms the denier,
the scientific community, and the reputation of the United States with the rest of the industrialized
world. A denial of climate change, however, harms everything: the humans the Imago Deists
hold dear, the environment, and all life.


https://youtu.be/ulmpK7X5kiY

Another view from another nobel winner scientist....


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/07/nobel-winner-science/

He does quantum mechanics, not anything related to the climate. Meanwhile, the vast majority of scientists who do relevant science are on the other side of the issue.

Would you have Roger Penrose or Stephen Hawking do your heart surgery?

It doesn’t matter to them. Their environmental policy is Jesus is going to give them a whole new planet just for them so it doesn’t matter what happens to this one.

No one comments on the fact the human population has quadrupled in the last 123 years and what to do about that...and the resources required to feed, clothe and house 8 billion humans.

To the contrary, people speak about the need to stop population growth so that people can live decently and sustainably all the damn time.

You make shit up.

Gee thanks for your insight. I will slink away to my hovel now...

Ron, I don't want you to slink away at all. I just think you should provide evidence for assertions about the great unwashed masses.

Can you demonstrate to me and those like me, whom you have on more than one occasion called "climate wussies," that people who worry about climate change are not concerned about people? I don't think you can.

But produce evidence and I'll absolutely look at it.

I am glad you are here Ron. Don't let anyone run you off.

Agreed. Sincerely.

Agreed.

No kidding. We Canucks are thin on the ground around here.

Will the James Webb Space Telescope be able to locate Kolob?

That sure would put the icing on the Book of Mormon.

If there were Navaho Bagels instead of Navaho Tacos, the whole story might been a little more credible.

Not sure where Kolob is, but Kolob Canyon was 112ºF today, which sounds way too close to Hell.

I picked up a juice box at a hospitality counter recently. Attached to it was a paper straw wrapped in plastic wrapper. After half-chewing the wrapper off, I tried to drive the paper straw into the little foil hole of the juice box. It wouldn't go, and the point of the paper straw got all mangled. I ended up stabbing a hole in the juice box with the tip of a key.

Later, I was about to drop the juice box in the recycle bin, but there was a sign specifying (among other products) "No Juice Boxes."

Ah, environmental movement of the 21st Century.

Do you think they serve juice boxes with paper straws wrapped in plastic at Davos?

They have biodegradable plastic straws now and a lot of people carry their own. Maybe you should get one if this is an issue for you. Ain't I a problem solver :)

Shhh. They’re incorporating an IQ test into food packaging. It’s a sneaky way to improve the gene pool. Darwin snacks.

Neural implants.


HH =)

Could be worse. The climate change extremists could be out vandalizing and disrupting the lives of ordinary people the way Just Stop Oil is doing in the UK.

Why do they matter? Big business is more concerning.

For big banks to stop providing 30-year mortgages on Florida properties that allegedly will be underwater in 10 years.

Not a peep on this thread yet about China and India. One of the biggest challenges you face on getting people to take the Climate Change issue seriously is because the majority of the problem on Planet Earth is in China and India, yet the people trying to raise awareness on Climate Change ignore this fact altogether. If you want to be taken seriously then treat this as a global problem, use Science, and don't ignore inconvenient facts.

I don't think that anyone is ignoring China and India. It's just that we have no control over what those two countries do. My hope is that when they both further develop, they move to cleaner energy sources as well.