As I have posted many times the breaking point for me was my time in the mtc.
I would like to hear anyone's thoughts on this:
Do the people like Holland and Oakes intentionally lie and tell everyone what a great experience a mission is when really they are just trying to get young people to "volunteer" so that they can be controlled and brainwashed? If so than they really are scum and criminals.
The MTC is what showed me that the LDS church is a corporation no different from the evangelical church I grew up in. But only slightly more controlling and just as guilt inducing.

> Do the people like Holland and
> Oakes intentionally lie and tell
> everyone what a great experience
> a mission is ...?

It could be that at their age, they only really hear about the mission experience for either those who fib a bit as a part of sucking up to them by telling them what they want to hear, or they hear from people like me who did indeed have "great missions" ... whatever that might mean.

In my case, it meant that I disobeyed the rules that I didn't want to keep when I had the opportunity to do so. I also lied my ass off in order to keep my MP off my case.

But I served back when P-day was D-day, and the American dollar went a lot farther than it does now ... and there was no internet.

It is not unlikely that some?/many? young men and women still "enjoy" their exactly two-year missions. (I served two years and three months.)

As to the 'indoctrinate' issue, I can't speak to that since it obviously was never an issue for PIMO me.

I think it serves two purposes for the church.

1) Brings in new members.....tithing, chapel cleaners, obedient servants, etc.

2) Strengthen the missionary's testimony so they will remain in the church.

As far as the "great experience" goes, that depends on the missionary and why they went on the mission. They'll get what they want from it, and hopefully what they need to get out of it too.

I got both, and I was totally inactive up to about 3 months before I went (I was 22 when I went), and I left again for good a couple years after I returned.

With all of the negative, truthful information available by searching the internet or the LDS's own website, it seems to me that missions in this modern age are primarily about indoctrinating the young man or woman missionary.

If the mission happens to rope in a new member, so be it - but the fact is, new members are extremely rare. Growing the member families with babies is the way to grow the church, if they even want/need growth.

The # of people in pews/chairs/prayer rugs at any religious institution is on the decline. Noticeably fewer. Surveys show weekly American attendance is at an all-time low.

Quite unexpectedly for religious leaders, in the past few years, people found more enjoyable activities to fill their weekend hours.

The odds are that if the church and the kids' families can get them to "invest" in a mission, there's a better chance of those RMs staying *active* than those who don't go on a mission.

Of my five male grandkids, only one has gone on a mission, and he is the only one who is active. Of the six female grandkids, I can see one possibly going (she starts her senior year), but all the others have aged out, and none of them are active.

Well done, good and faithful servant!

I'm sure that if there is a deity, he, she, it, ﺞﺌ, them, or ᲖფᲢჱ are proud of me!

SMH. They should never have taken away your crayons.

No worries, he still has his Etch-a-sketch, View Master and Play-Doh.

That AND rake in tithing contributions.
It’s a free sales force for the CULT.

During Vietnam I served a tour in the Army and then went on a mission which I completed both. Both had their share of pain in the ass experiences but I endured both.
What are we raising these days? A generation of wimps?

Suffering has value for its own sake? No wonder you returned to activity in the church.

Who said I wasn't active while in the Army?

Aha!  So you admit you weren't active as a missionary!!!

When I was a missionary we weren't allowed to go to fun church activities (back when they still had them).
So I started a new church program"Every missionary a member".

> "Every missionary
> a member".

EOD has always been a member.

Even if TSCC knew that missionaries would bring in no converts, they would still pressure people to serve missions. With senior missionaries, they get free labor for jobs that would often command a high salary. For the youth, they get kids immersed in church devotion 24/7 during a time when they could be going to college or otherwise starting to learn about the world, and about themselves. Then they pressure them to get married quickly and deepen their identity in Mormonism.

Anyone serving a mission is a big win for the Mormon church. If they get a convert or two-that's just icing on the cake.

    Being vaguely celibate
    in your late teens is
    not something the human
    body was designed to do.

    And then trying to stay a
    virgin drove us to marry
    the first chance we could.

    That's how I see it...


Let's have a contest!

Who here waited the longest, after completing your mission, to get married, with the proviso that you remained celibate.

2 1/2 years for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2023 11:26PM by CrispingPin.

A friend from high school married an RM five years after his return.

I wonder if the church has stats on this?

And I would like to know the record, but I bet it's held by a return sister missionary.

When I was planning to go on a mission no returned missionaries filled me in on what to expect. No one warned me. All missionary homecoming talks were glowing. The returned sister missionary who inspired me to go on a mission only shared her positive experiences. I had no idea of what I was getting myself into.

I think it's just part of being a good Mormon to only say good things about a mission. Missionaries are encouraged to send home letters of positive experiences because their duty as a missionary is also to inspire and uplift loved ones at home. And when they return they only report the highlights to show how spiritual they are. The cycle of deception continues.

When I was in the MTC in the 80s missionaries were told that the main purpose of the mission wasn't to baptize but to strengthen the missionary. I guess indoctrinating the missionary is the same thing.

I had a really difficult mission in a country with very low baptism and retention rates. Most of my mission was spent knocking on doors and being rejected. I worked hard and dutifully endured to the end, which also marked the beginning of the end of me as a Mormon. My eyes were opened on my mission and church became more of a struggle.

My brother was preparing to leave when I came home. I didn't dare tell him all the negative stuff because I didn't want to discourage him. He ended up having a really difficult mission also but didn't talk about it for years. We both gave glowing talks when we returned from our mission.

My brother also stopped going to church. His sons didn't go on missions. Most of his children no longer go to church. Points for our side :)

Me too.

Back when I was a teen in the 60's, the missionaries gave their homecoming talks and made it sound like the best experience anyone could ever have. On top of that they would have slide shows (not that anyone knows what that is anymore) in the cultural hall or at someone's home with refreshments. So many had so many beautiful photos of exotic places and told of tearful conversions. I had never ever heard a negative word.

I came home from my mission and did the same. We knew instinctively that "that is what you do". it was part of it. I worked so hard on my mission and that was the final part of the calling.

Years later I read my journal and I was sickened by how I made the mission seem so spiritual and myself sound like a general in God's army. I burned it.

They really get get into your head. So yeah. Indoctrination all the way.

there are varying degrees of 'believers' in ChurchCo; one of my comps pointed out various anomalies in what we presented, I wonder if he's In or OUT now.


Inquiring minds don't do well in ChurchCo bc there are PLENTY of questionable issues, those who don't question do far, far, better.

Also the status of your fam & support network before, during, and after are important parts of the puzzle.

It's part of the church program, the latest lingo calls it part of the covenant path that Nelson speaks fondly of.

Serving a mission meant more to my mom than it did to me. I had to serve one at any cost. My older siblings had stopped attending and it was up to me to restore any valor of the Goop name. My mom wanted to have her son's name and goofy picture on the stake's missionary world map. She wanted that right to stand and brag during F/T that her son was serving a mission.

Can you imagine the shame that she might have endured had I been sent home? That's why I was told over and over that I was not welcomed if I came home dishonorably. I was welcomed as a corpse in a pine box and about 7 years ago, she finally admitted that she upped my life insurance to cover me as a dead son.

Like others have said, I had little interaction with returned missionaries. In a span of 4-5 years, my ward had 2 missionaries sent home dishonorably. The most recent RM was a sister missionary who served in the Midwest. While her talk was "positive" about serving, she had unkind words for the weather and getting her dress caught in her bicycle chain. She also mentioned freezing during the windy weather as wearing 4 pairs of nylons did nothing to keep her legs feeling warm. I wanted to ask her some questions during a "special missionary fireside" but she didn't show up. That should have been a sign that serving a mission was going to be a very bumpy ride.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2023 06:44AM by messygoop.

>>,,,she had unkind words for the weather and getting her dress caught in her bicycle chain. She also mentioned freezing during the windy weather as wearing 4 pairs of nylons did nothing to keep her legs feeling warm.

Only a man would have come up with a rule that required women to wear skirts or dresses on a bicycle, or during bitterly cold weather. Yet another example of Mormon misogyny.

Like the man says, never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

I highly doubt, at this stage, that there is any real reason at all behind missions besides "we've always done it this way". The original purpose was to get more Mormons, but in 2023 I ascribe it more to Just One Of Those Things that Mormon kids are supposed to do just because. And it can't ever stop. Too many Mormon parents who would feel hurt if they couldn't tell all about their precious darlings' miracles and angelic guardians. IMO.

I think it's what' known as "sunk cost". You've invested so in theory you stay in.

There was a study in colleges in the US. I don't have the data, so take this as anecdotal.

Students were asked to steel man an argument, and ended up having more views that reflected the argument they were making.

Here's an example. One student is against immigration. The professor gives an assignment. Argue that immigration is good and find examples of successful immigrants who improved their community. The student finds successful immigrants who started companies and created jobs. They slowly start to change their mind.

This is the point of a liberal education. Give students opposing views. Challenge their assumptions. Let them come to new conclusions.

I say all this to say that when a missionary teaches the lessons over and over again, they start to fall prey to confirmation bias. Missions also seem to be full of "faith promoting rumors". I spoke to several missionaries and without fail they had stories of miraculous recovery from diseases, near death experiences, and dramatic life changes. The topic of the faith promoting rumor seemed to be tailored to who they were talking to at the moment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2023 09:07PM by T-Bone.