At one time the GAs spoke against cremation but generously gave Japan an exception under the Myth that there wasn’t enough land for cemeteries there ..(even though dead folks take up less real estate than living people do)

I understand there is a Great reduction in the number of burials in the U.S. (Canada also ?) due to increased use of cremations, is this also the case with Mormons wherever they live(d)?

I'm not there yet. Thinking of having my ashes spread over my dogs' graves. My older sister wants to be cremated and have the urn put in the casket with her husband.

If I don't get cremated, I want to only be buried and that's it. Nothing else.

Funerals, especially in Utah, are really just irritating. I'm trying to think of which one I went to recently. A friend from the ward I grew up in and ran around with until we were both married--my choice to cutoff the friendship. She died of a heart attack at 65 suddenly. She was a tiny little thing. Her mother died of the same thing at the same age.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2023 01:41PM by cl2.

Dead people may take up less real estate than living people do, but they stay a lot longer.

LDS Inc has not had an official ban on cremation for as far back as I can remember. They discourage the practice, but they don’t do anything if you are cremated. Besides, what could they do? Cancel your TR? Resume to give you callings? You’re dead.

They can't do anything to the deceased, of course, but they can do one of the things they do best to the living relatives. They can judge.

So by being cremated you might be helping your TBM family members to leave LDS Inc to escape the judgmentalism. :)

Subversive to the end.

Latest funeral home go open near me has a crematorium.

But....they do pets as well as people.

Myself, I've asked to be cremated and have my ashes turned into a diamond and given go my granddaughter.

In the worst case she can always pawn me for money.

This "turn your ashes into a diamond" seems like a scam to me. Diamonds are pure carbon, and carbon is precisely what is removed from your body during cremation (along with water). What are they making this supposed diamond out of?

The "diamond" you might be made into will have no pawn value. It's equivalent to a cubic zirconia.

Cremation is one of an endless list of things that are often believed to be Mormon doctrine, even though it's not "official" doctrine. And as we all know, nobody knows what actually is official doctrine.

Even from a book titled "Mormon Doctrine." McConkie states:
"Cremation of the dead is no part of the gospel; it is a practice which has been avoided by the saints in all ages." Bruce cites no scriptural passage, nor does he quote any prophet to back up his claim. Of course, that was typical for him.

People get embalmed so they can look OK for a couple days in their open caskets for the family to pretend they look "peaceful."

Then all that embalming fluid makes its way to the ground water.

Think of all the resources used for vaults and coffins. Cremation uses some resources too, but not quite as bad. I wish our culture had developed better death practices and rituals for returning our bodies to nature instead.

I was taught growing up at church that cremation desecrated the temple of the body, so it should be avoided. However, in countries where it was preferred due to space and cultural practices, it would be acceptable. So, IOW, it was a wishy washy stance from the church to instill guilt but not forbid it.

I've always wanted to go via a Tower of Silence like the Zoroastrian Parsis use in India.

The final act of charity.

I like the idea of a funeral pyre, such as was used by the ancient Shinto, or in Viking funerals,

Long ago I had a dream where I was observing a Viking burial at sea from a distance. It was done at night, with lights on the bow and stern of the boat. It was one of those dreams that sticks with you.

They did that in Beowulf: not quite Viking, only Teutonic, but probably the same northern European culture.

Interesting. I didn't know what it was when I woke up, but sketched a picture of it. Later, I recognized it as being Viking, or as you say, northern European. It was a longboat with a platform in the back. I always wondered if I was reviewing a memory from a past lifetime.

I also once had a dream where I was wandering around London in an earlier era -- lots of detail in the street scenes. What I was seeing would have been sometime in the 1800s, maybe mid- to late. I remember seeing steam vehicles. Much later I found out that my great-grandfather had been born in west London. Again, perhaps a memory from a former lifetime.

Oops. Just consulted Beowulf and found that they burned him on a funeral pyre, so I misremembered the ship bit.

So, here is what I've discovered. Most Viking dead were cremated; great warriors were buried or burned in small ships or wagons, both intended for use in the afterlife. The practice of burning corpses at sea was apparently, sensibly, reserved for the extremely wealthy.

As for London, in the middle and particularly the late 19th century it was a nasty, exceedingly polluted place. Coal furnaces had rendered the city noxious as early as the 18th century, and by the middle of the 19th century William Blake spoke of the city's "dark satanic mills" and the smog was so bad that residents could rarely see the sun. Residents were physically stunted in growth--an estimated three inches--and suffered all sorts of health problems relative to those who lived in the countryside.

I always wonder if we "remember" famous places the way they really were. My faulty recollection of Beowulf shows that mine surely aren't!

I'm aware that the longboat that I saw in my dream would have been reserved only for an important individual, perhaps a tribal chieftan. I don't know who "I" was in that dream -- just an observer on another bank, one of many.

The London that I saw didn't look bad -- just like a busy metropolis. Dirt streets, hustle and bustle, women in long dresses, some steam vehicles. It was the level of detail that struck me, and in a weird way, the ordinariness of it. Well, I took it for London. Might have been another British city.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2023 07:56PM by summer.

Interesting. . .

If you've ever seen the British TV series, "Miss Scarlett and the Duke," which takes place in the Victorian era it was rather like that, only with steam vehicles. And I think the clothing was less fancy. The TV series was set in London, but shot in Dublin. Hmmm...

The "freshly embalmed" look is popular at General Conference.

         ↑ 15!!

LOL

Yes, and they probably invest heavily in funeral home chains...you know...to be prepared for the 2nd coming. They probably have a shell company that gets tax breaks full of them. ;-/

At least the living GAs get to choose their own clothes to wear at GC... I think.

Catholics used to discourage cremations. My father was buried long ago, when I was a child. When my mom passed twenty years ago, much to my surprise, she had wished to be cremated. We laid her ashes in the grave next to my dad's casket. Once the soil is shoveled back in, and grass is grown, who is going to know the difference?

I will request that my ashes be scattered over any open water. My beloved Chesapeake Bay would be wonderful, but my nephew lives on the Maine coast, our family's ancestral home, and that would be fitting as well.

There is currently discussion in Maryland of allowing the process where one's remains are turned into soil.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2023 05:55PM by summer.

Yes. Organic reduction, or human composting. I'm leaning that way. If your state doesn't allow it there's an outfit in Washington state that will help arrange for bringing the body to their facility and returning the compost. Or they'll donate the compost to a local conservation group. Very environmentally friendly.

https://recompose.life/

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Catholics used to discourage cremations. My father
> was buried long ago, when I was a child. When my
> mom passed twenty years ago, much to my surprise,
> she had wished to be cremated. We laid her ashes
> in the grave next to my dad's casket. Once the
> soil is shoveled back in, and grass is grown, who
> is going to know the difference?
>
>

I remember back in the 50's at Catholic school that cremation wasn't acceptable, and it was because it would be very hard for the Lord to reassemble the body on the last day.

This led to a discussion about how people over a hundred years ago were just wrapped in a blanket and buried in the ground. That was acceptable to the church.

The discussion went further, if someone was buried in a field, wouldn't the body decompose to its natural elements and be fertilizer for the grass and vegetation on the surface? If a cow came by and ate the grass and your elements became part of the cow and it was slaughtered and butchered, it then would be food for the farmer and family.

Now your elements are now shared with multiple people and if you repeat the process over and over, it is possible that your body is now part of 1000's of other bodies.

How is God going to resurrect you on the last day?

Typical answer, it'll all become clear on the last day.

Yep, science made short work of that religious belief.

People fighting over specific carbon molecules on Resurrection Day. . .

Since it's likely that there will not be an unlimited supply of all the necessary elements, nor room enough for all of us to squeeze together, I believe it is likely that our spirit bodies will be ant-size.  Or maybe we'll all be the same size as The Cat's beloved Water Bears!

And there's nothing wrong or bad about that as long as we're all proportionally the same; as long as I can outrun Gladys, things will be fine.

You haven't caught me yet, old man!

I think GAs avoid 'Offcial Doctrine' bc it often comes back to bite them;

Unfortunately, even Honesty & Kindness are almost in that category, they dilute 99.9 % of Christ-Like living.

just sayin'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2023 09:23PM by GNPE.

I've been saying it for years here: While it's not likely to happen, my preference is feebly hiking out into the wilderness and becoming one with the coyotes.

That's for guys without a JD.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmxd7GWWP_k

Like all things we return to the earth. To mother nature we are all composing material and nothing else. It really does not matter.

Just for my own bias input. I have told my kids if any of them spend money on a funeral for me, I will haunt them from the grave. Put me in the cheapest item per burial laws or creamate, whichever costs the least. Then take whats left of my estate, and take care of yourself.

There's always the Lakota/Ute/Navaho tree/scaffold burial, where you are turned into bird food, plus food for whatever animals are good climbers.

And there's the Fargo wood chipper.

Fargo wood chippers on a hog farm: the cycle of life.

Tumwater wrote: cremation wasn't acceptable, and it was because it would be very hard for the Lord to reassemble the body on the last day."

isn't this supernatural being supposedly all-knowing and amazingly able to do amazing things? surely a little 1000-billion-jillion-piece jigsaw puzzle wouldn't pose any serious difficulty to said being?

We owe it to future generations to stop burying people and move toward cremation or human composting.

When my wife and I had our last wills prepared we indicated cremation when we died.

Gave drafts to our kids for review and input. Their only concern is what we wanted done with the ashes. Told them we didn't care as we would be gone. They ran thru some suggestions, and we said fine what ever they wanted.... if they couldn't decide, garbage collection day is on Wednesday in our neighborhood.

Brother-in-law was also upset, he said if he wanted to visit my grave he had no place to go. I suggested if he wanted to visit, do it now, visit when I'm alive, not when I'm dead

Called me a butt head.

> Brother-in-law was also upset,
> he said if he wanted to visit
> my grave he had no place to go.
> I suggested if he wanted to
> visit, do it now, visit when
> I'm alive, not when I'm dead.


Yeah, I have people who probably look forward to pissing on my grave.

Where does one sign up?

--asking for a friend

People are asked to refrain from pissing until the dancers have finished.

What about the mariachi band?

ETA: Asking for a friend



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2023 09:51AM by Lot's Wife.

tumwater Wrote:
---------------------------------BP?
-------------------

> Brother-in-law was also upset, he said if he
> wanted to visit my grave he had no place to go. I
> suggested if he wanted to visit, do it now, visit
> when I'm alive, not when I'm dead
>
> Called me a butt head.

Offer him some funeral potatoes if he visits U while you're alive + green Jell-o for desert;

If he doesn't take you up on that, You call Him a butt-head...

*Grass is always greener. . .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2023 10:55PM by Lot's Wife.

One final comment from me on this stream.

Had a good friend that said when he died, he wanted to be buried face down and anyone that wanted to visit his remains could just kiss his ass.

Pissed him off when I said I'd ride my bike to visit his grave and I'd have a place to park my bike.

Enough

tumwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One final comment from me on this stream.
>
> Had a good friend that said when he died, he
> wanted to be buried face down and anyone that
> wanted to visit his remains could just kiss his
> ass.
>
> Pissed him off when I said I'd ride my bike to
> visit his grave and I'd have a place to park my
> bike.
>
> Enough

Is/was your friend a GA, area authority, SP, or just a BP?

that's important info, btw



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2023 12:09PM by GNPE.

If one had access to the Church Handbook of Instructions (the most sacred work of the Mormon church), one would notice that the church never addressed cremation as bad or damning. There were only protocols with how to arrange burials versus arranging cremations. Pretty much all we learnt in classes about the evils of cremation were merely passed on by people who believed that the church was against it.

The church *was* against it. Joseph F. Smith and Bruce McConkie wrote about the evils of cremation, and some church presidents did as well.

The question, once again, inevitably, is what comprises "doctrine."