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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: August 25, 2023 10:30AM

Mormon victimhood is an old story, now EV fundies are playing the same game.

I hope this news story based on facts and evidence dispels some of the myths and misconceptions that are infecting life today.

If you want to hate someone, fine.

That's your choice.

But base your fears on reality, not make-believe.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/18/are-white-christians-under-attack-in-america-no-but-the-myth-is-winning


"We assume there are far fewer white Christians than there actually are, and that there are far more of everyone else – people of color, immigrants, non-Christians, non-straight people and non-binary people. To be fair, Americans also overestimated the number of left-handed people (estimate was 32%; reality is 11%). But it’s hard to ignore the directionality of our misperceptions.

To be clear, America really is browning. In 2013, the majority of newborn Americans were people of color. In 2014, the majority of public school students were kids of color. And in the next 25 years, America will no longer be a majority white country – at least according to the US census’s racial categories.

But conservatives have long known that stoking racial or faith-based fears works, and they’re leaning into this messaging.I spent much of my childhood attending white evangelical Christian churches in the midwest, and I remember sermon after sermon painting Christians as victims. It started with a story about how Christians were being persecuted in a foreign country, often China, and how that echoes the biblical stories about Christians being persecuted. Inevitably the sermon would turn to Jesus being executed by the Romans, and then extrapolate this persecution to our lives as American Christians. The message was clear: it’s us versus the world – and the purpose of everyone else is to squash the fire of our faith.

It was immensely effective and often translated into policy positions, like being anti-abortion and pro-Iraq war. But more importantly, it painted white Christians as an aggrieved group – a belief that it’s not just you under attack, but people like you."

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Posted by: Lugosi's not dead ( )
Date: August 25, 2023 12:03PM

In most parts of the world, it is African immigration which is strengthening Christianity. Africa is the main area of growth for Christianity and Africa is now sending missionaries to Europe and North America now, not vice versa.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: August 25, 2023 12:50PM

1) all of which is irrelevant to white Christian paranoia in the US.

2) do you have actual statistics showing how many missionaries are sent from North America and Europe to Africa, versus how many are sent from Africa to Europe and North America?

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Posted by: T-Bone ( )
Date: September 08, 2023 01:45AM

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) all of which is irrelevant to white Christian
> paranoia in the US.
>
> 2) do you have actual statistics showing how many
> missionaries are sent from North America and
> Europe to Africa, versus how many are sent from
> Africa to Europe and North America?

Source: Trust me, bro.

Now you're asking questions that require proof. I thought platitudes were enough on the internet, especially on RfM. Just regurgitate the right narrative and get kudos from strangers on the internet.

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Posted by: Jebediah Brussles ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 12:49AM

They want to attack us, take our lands, our women, and kids!!!!!
And Even though God created man in his image and all people are one and the bible tells us how to treat others.
Lets hate the brown and black skin people, even though they might be devout Christians

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 01:50AM

Jebediah Brussles Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And Even though God created man in his image and
> all people are one and the bible tells us how to
> treat others.
> Lets hate the brown and black skin people, even
> though they might be devout Christians

Yeah. This I don't get.

I would have predicted that Christians would be the ones preaching love and inclusion.

Obviously, I would have been incorrect in all too many cases.

My personal observations and experiences of Christians being at odds with others is if you're in the fold but not doing it their preferred way then you're made to feel like last week's garbage by some or sometimes by all.

That's happened to me a few times.

Yes. I'm a slow learner.

Because. I keep going back.

The spectacle of self-described Christians actively visibly preaching hate is a new one on me though.

However, I do know some Christians who are amazingly loving.

So it's all a bit of a puzzle.

Maybe there's a whole lot of folks out there who don't fit in to a particular group, especially if it's one that demands a hundred percent conformity.

So the bottom line, as usual, is that generalizations often don't hold up very well.

But true enough, if you're going to be opinionated and/or adamant in your beliefs/philosophy, especially if it makes you obnoxious, contentious, argumentative, unfriendly, annoying, hypocritical or my least favourite - angry - then there's bound to be a clash with others.

The other bottom line is that absolutes are most often less than absolutely accurate.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 11:06AM

"They want to attack us, take our lands, our women, and kids!!!!!"

Oh gosh, what if brown people steal their land and put them on a reservation?

Jesus didn't return as expected so maybe they don't know what to do with themselves.

The polarization of society at large is huge. I don't think it's just the EVs. Whites have been othering minorities for a very long time. They were born into it. It's the same as Israel and Palestine. Jesus's message was that culture is not your friend. Contrary to what the church teaches, conformity is not the way to enlightenment.

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Posted by: unconventionalideas ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 06:17AM

EV is a perfect haven for racist people. It gives them a sense of legitimacy. At least that’s what they think.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 11:16AM

It is so important to have an enemy. Otherwise you have to be just like everybody else, you know--equal. So if you can't find one, make one up. It's not rocket science. Even the religious right can do it.

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 11:26AM

The great disappointment for this crowd is that Mormonism has embraced this mindset along with every other religious group. And that is the main reason people are leaving these days.

The church has nothing left to offer except for self-aggrandizement and self-congratulation. As bradley said above, "Jesus didn't return as expected so maybe they don't know what to do with themselves". All the sane people have left the churches behind for the simple reason that they just do not fulfill their end of the contract. We did not lose our faith. We wised up.

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Posted by: unconventionalideas ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 12:17PM

Well put.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 11:40AM

The Mormons have changed horses in the middle of the stream going all Jesus and Bible. Like the common garden variety Christians they are now aping, their intention is to follow the Old Testament in practice while using Jesus as their mascot. An attempt to marry both worlds as they disregard that their supposed savior was there to nix the O.T.

Raising the bible, hand above head, is indeed a sign that you are not good and never got the message.

Raising the BoM, of course, was always ridiculous. So Mormons are looking for strength in numbers as theirs dwindle. As for becoming more generic Christian--well, any port in a storm.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 12:39PM

  
  
  

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 12:45PM

The White Christmas Lamanites dream of?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 09, 2023 11:47AM

I once spent a White Christmas Eve on Olvera Street, buying silly Lamanite toys for half-Lamanite kids...

...I bought fresh, hand-made churros, too!!  The Costco churros are pretty close in quality.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 10, 2023 03:25PM

"The Costco churros are pretty close in quality."

Just like the ones I used to know.

Fit for Santa and his old lady.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: September 02, 2023 06:14PM

You are exposing the phoniness of christinsanity.

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Posted by: matt ( )
Date: September 03, 2023 11:28AM

I find it hilarious and ironic that although The Guardian proudly uses the boast "Comment is Free" actually stopped posting reader's comments several years ago.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 04, 2023 09:05AM

Errr, this is incorrect. I posted on the Guardian website this morning...

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 04, 2023 10:51AM

Well, maybe you did…,but we all know that it is no longer possible to post here on RfM, so why should we believe you?

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Posted by: Skunkworks Blue ( )
Date: September 09, 2023 09:36AM

matt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it hilarious and ironic that although The
> G*ardian proudly uses the boast "Comment is Free"
> actually stopped posting reader's comments several
> years ago.

The G*ardian pretends to be independent but takes millions off oligarchs to stay afloat!

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 14, 2023 07:33AM


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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 09, 2023 10:32AM

I am tired of a clawing your way to the top world where so many believe the best strategy is not a good offense, but to paint yourself the victim. In the case of the Christians, and its' not only the white ones, the victimhood is an offense as well. A "twofer".

2023. So many victims. So very, very many. The people who don't claim victimhood are becoming victims of the victims. Haha.

The overuse of thew word "witch-hunt" comes to mind for some reason. Hmmmmnnn

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 10, 2023 04:49PM

'Overuse' an understatement D&D.

If I **never** hear that word again I will miss it not at all. And that will be too soon.

Variety is the spice of life so they say.

You know that ancient cop drama where the scary voice intones "There are eight million stories in the naked city. This has been one of them."

Well, there are apparently at least one million words in the English language. It's good to try and use more of them if at all possible.

People's ears need a rest sometimes.

Eight million sounds better than one million. But one million is still a lot of words.

My dad loved words. He used to sit and read the dictionary. As kids we thought that was decidedly weird. Now I get him a lot better. Too bad he's no longer here for me to tell him that.

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Posted by: Warrior ( )
Date: September 10, 2023 03:20PM

Yeah, because white Christians all obviously have the same opinions about everything, no one has free will or individuality...

In reality "white Christians" in America range from Episcopalians wandering around labyrinths and discussing gender identity, to Amish to Eastern Orthodox bells n smells to Pentecostal and many more. They come in all political flavors.

To make the suggestion that the entire "community" thinks the same is crass. It says more about you failing to view people as individuals instead of collectives.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 10, 2023 04:56PM

Yeah, Christianity is a conglomerate not a single entity.

Too bad the ones with the loudest voices get the most visibility.

Not-Christianity also has its share of undesirable elements and beliefs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2023 04:57PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: September 11, 2023 04:55AM

Most of it is just noise. A minority of loudmouths get the attention of another minority who doesn’t like the other minority and they write articles and do shows on it. It doesn’t reflect the broader situation. People like drama so it gets their attention. If anything paying attention to it just wastes your time and gives you a biased view of the world.

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: September 13, 2023 10:12AM

Some might believe that but the "them" generally do not.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 13, 2023 12:48PM

Kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some might believe that but the "them" generally
> do not.


Well, yes, they do.

I'm just the messenger.


What passes for "christianity" in America nowadays is anything but.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/24/us/white-christian-nationalism-blake-cec/index.html



At first glance, these snapshots look like scenes from an outdoor church rally. But this event wasn’t a revival; it was what some call a Christian revolt. These were photos of people who stormed the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, during an attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election.

The insurrection marked the first time many Americans realized the US is facing a burgeoning White Christian nationalist movement. This movement uses Christian language to cloak sexism and hostility to Black people and non-White immigrants in its quest to create a White Christian America.

A report from a team of clergy, scholars and advocates — sponsored by two groups that advocate for the separation of church and state — concluded that this ideology was used to “bolster, justify and intensify” the attack on the US Capitol.


The incongruity of people carrying “Jesus Saves” signs while joining a mob whose members are pummeling police officers leads to an obvious question: How can White Christian nationalists who claim to follow Jesus, the “Prince of Peace” who renounced violence in the Gospels, support a violent insurrection?

That’s because they follow a different Jesus than the one depicted in the Gospels, says Du Mez, who is also a professor of history and gender studies at Calvin University — a Christian school — in Michigan. They follow the Jesus depicted in the Book of Revelation, the warrior with eyes like “flames of fire” and “a robe dipped in blood” who led the armies of heaven on white horses in a final, triumphant battle against the forces of the antichrist.

White Christian nationalists have refashioned Jesus into a kick-butt savior who is willing to smite enemies to restore America to a Christian nation by force, if necessary, Du Mez and others say.

While warlike language like putting on “the full armor of God” has long been common in Christian sermons and hymns, it has largely been interpreted as metaphorical. But many White Christian nationalists take that language literally.

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Posted by: BoydKKK ( )
Date: September 13, 2023 08:33PM

So silly.

All the world loves singing White Christians every December, right?

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Posted by: blindguy ( )
Date: September 14, 2023 04:51AM

If I'm interpreting the article correctly (and I think I am), it is making the point that white evangelical Christians in the U.S. are putting support for their tribe (group) ahead of what Christianity (per the Gospels) actually teaches. I think we've seen this story before in history, the teachings of many white ministers in the Confederacy prior to the U.S. Civil War being a good example.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 14, 2023 10:55AM


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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 14, 2023 10:59AM

Jesus is the ultimate Logo. But, in most every other way has become a hindrance to the real cause--domination.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 24, 2023 07:09AM

For most Christians, Jesus is a graven image.

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Posted by: Oakland Guy ( )
Date: September 23, 2023 07:16PM

Reading your post, I kind of understand why they might feel a little persecuted.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 24, 2023 07:32AM

Well, this is a recovery group. The Mormon cult ruined religion for a lot of people. Even worse, it ruined God for a lot of people. So they get triggered by anyone who still believes.

Everyone needs community. Or do they? There's the rub. Online communities have replaced the real ones.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 24, 2023 10:56AM

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, this is a recovery group. The Mormon cult
> ruined religion for a lot of people. Even worse,
> it ruined God for a lot of people. So they get
> triggered by anyone who still believes.

This.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 24, 2023 07:38AM

No one is persecuting Christians in this county. They are free to worship as they please. No one cares who they will or will not marry (there's always civil marriage.) They are free to run their own schools and universities. They are free to indoctrinate however they want to, and as much as they want to. Their churches receive numerous tax breaks.

When they want to infringe on the *civil* rights of others, that becomes a problem.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 24, 2023 10:56AM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When they want to infringe on the *civil* rights
> of others, that becomes a problem.

Also this.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 24, 2023 10:06PM

Oakland Guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reading your post, I kind of understand why they
> might feel a little persecuted.


Did you read the article?


Both Mormons and EVs use fear and "victimhood" to keep people in the cult.


I can only echo the comments made by Summer and Nightingale.


When I think of Christian goodness and charity, I think of Bishop Myriel from "Les Miserables" who gave Jean Valjean the silver candlesticks. That's not who I'm talking about.


These people who call themselves "Christians" are anything but. They are hypocritical haters who use religious faith as a vector of hate. They need fear like water, food, or air. They have to have it, and if they have nothing to fear, they create it.


They make up things to be afraid of, then channel that fear as an excuse to oppress others.


I don't care what god or gods someone worships or what they believe. I do care when at best they try to force other people to live the way they live and believe what they believe or deny their existence, or at worst erase or end their existence. I'm not talking about history. I'm talking about here and now.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2023 10:32PM by anybody.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 25, 2023 01:58AM

Okay, but why not keep your prejudices when absolution is easy. Your imaginary friends will always forgive you.

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Posted by: T-Bone ( )
Date: September 24, 2023 09:56AM

It's my opinion that the overzealous religious people out there look for instances of discrimination against them.

Where would Mormons be without their martyr, Joseph Smith? He gave them a permanent get out of jail free card.

He was doing nasty things to teenage girls?
He created a bank and ran off with the money?
He created a cult that rips off widows?

But he was martyred! That means he's a good guy. Satan made those bad people kill him.

It's the whole us vs them mentality in the more extreme religions. It's kinda baked in.

I know plenty of religious folks who don't have that us vs them mentality. They live their life, and they don't tell others how to live. They're pleasant to be around. As long as they practice what they preach, we don't have a problem.

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