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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: September 05, 2023 04:22PM

https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/utah-households-are-most-indebted-in-the-nation-study-finds/

To expand on Summer's thread about the financial advice given to pay tithing first because "god will provide", it seems like the banks are the ones who some devout mormons are turning to instead.

I have shared this before but it struck me so much at the time I think it bears repeating again. I worked at a credit union as a loan officer back in my TBM days. We did loans of all kinds and for a higher interest rate, personal loans with no collateral. On at least 2 occasions I took loan applications for personal loans at the end of the year. One member swore it was for Christmas(I could tell he was hedging about the real reason) and the other confessed it was to catch up his tithing.

The threat of having a temple recommend pulled or not granted at all is so strong with some members, they will not only go into debt to pay the tithing, they will even lie about the real purpose of that debt.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 05, 2023 06:41PM

While Utah has a younger demographic, and most of the debt is concentrated in mortgages and car loans, the 10% tithe cannot be helping. Ten percent for a poor person is impossible. For a middle class person or family, it can rob them of the pleasurable extras of life (including family vacations,) but also necessities such as retirement savings.

Ten percent is a LOT of money. It is far more money than the Mormon church can possibly need or use (hence the $100 billion trust fund and extensive land and business holdings.) Most American churches get by quite nicely on 1-3% donations, and even spend about half of that on salaries at the local level (an expense from which Mormons are spared.) The Mormon church could easily get by on 1-2% donations, and the argument could be made that with the trust fund, Mormons are long overdue for a break on tithing altogether.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: September 06, 2023 07:11PM

I've noticed that where I grew up people keep posting things about needing to get another job. One was selling her furniture to be able to make her house payment.

During this time, the church could at the very least tell them not to pay if they can't afford it right now, but then their promise of the blessings won't work now will it.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: September 08, 2023 11:19AM

-The threat of having a temple recommend pulled or not granted at all is so strong with some members, they will not only go into debt to pay the tithing, they will even lie about the real purpose of that debt.

I add that there can be shame and shunning. My mom once shared about a sad situation that regularly occurred in her Relief Society class. A clipboard was passed around the room for an upcoming temple trip. I think the temple was the dreaded 3 hour drive at the time. The purpose was to have sisters sign up for a Saturday trip and the RS presidency was going to coordinate car pooling for said event.

As the clipboard was passed around, one of the leaders made a point to pick it up and walk the clipboard by a group of 3-4 sisters only to hand it to the next eligible sister. The omission was too obvious. While two sisters were up in age, another sister who had previously been attending the temple was now a part time tither, her husband had lost his job and they were struggling to eat, pay the bills. This poor sister was the talk of the ward. Even my mom knew about this and my mom was never in the RS presidencies.

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Posted by: want2bx ( )
Date: September 08, 2023 11:49AM

Tithing plays a role in this. Another factor is the social pressure Utah Mormons may feel to create an illusion of wealth. There seems to be a lot of "keeping up with the Joneses (or Smiths)" in Utah. Mormonism is a prosperity gospel. If you're righteous, you'll be blessed. Purchasing a large home, boat, camper and the latest SUV, whether you can afford it or not, creates an illusion of wealth and also righteousness. It's all about how it looks from the outside.

Also, those who are in the upper leadership of the church are often wealthy. So if you aspire to climb ranks within the church, it probably doesn't hurt to look the part first.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 08, 2023 04:57PM

I remember when so many houses were lost during the housing bubble. A young 30-something man that I knew of had a large house in Utah for which he could not keep up with the payments. I was unsurprised when it went into foreclosure. So many people overbought.

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Posted by: Anon4this ( )
Date: September 09, 2023 07:40AM

Getting married in the temple right after a mission at about 21 or 22 years old having babies right away makes things more difficult. Child care can be very expensive. We almost lost our home but I went back to work when the youngest was one year old.

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