of faith -- right now.

C'mon, do it!

You think it's just a "hoax," right?

I lurked on a nurse's message board during the pandemic. They saw the results of people who thought that Covid was a big nothing burger. Plenty of people in their care begged for a vaccine after it was too late for them. Many died. Some went to long-term care, never to regain their health. Some lost limbs. Covid was never a joke. While it tended to mainly strike people with certain vulnerabilities (age, poor health, overweight, etc.) it sometimes also inexplicably struck down young and otherwise healthy people.

The Christian preachers who insisted that their churches stay open and packed often had multiple deaths in their congregations as a result.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2023 02:14PM by summer.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Christian preachers who insisted that their
> churches stay open and packed often had multiple
> deaths in their congregations as a result.

Yes, this stunned me during the height of the pandemic. My experience with Christians is that obeying secular laws is a paramount principle.

The decisions of the preachers to flout lifesaving laws and the willingness of their flock to follow them were shocking. Certainly put me off even wanting to show up at their places of worship.

I didn't keep close track of how many were negatively affected directly by COVID due to congregating against medical advice, and even orders, of health experts and government officials trying to quell contagion but I doubt they emerged totally unscathed and any adverse consequences were directly attributable to unschooled and incompetent leadership and flocks eager to follow their shepherds even if it was over a steep cliff.

I note that health clinics here in B.C. are again mandating masks and other cautions for in-person visits to medical practitioners. Makes good sense as case counts are already rising ahead of the winter season. You'd think people would take minimal precautions to avoid contracting a truly miserable infection that is potentially very harmful not only to oneself but to one's contacts.

Who wants to end up saying "if only" once calamity has struck that could have been avoided.

That's my take on it anyway.

It can be lonely at times to miss out on social and other interactions due to taking precautions against COVID and other contagions especially present during fall and winter months but it's also lonely being ill with a bug that keeps everybody away from you right when you're at your lowest ebb and would welcome visitors. But they don't want your bug and you don't want to potentially kill them by sharing so yeah, you'll likely be lonely either way. I try to err on the side of life as much as possible though. My own and that of others.


PS: My SIL was visiting a few weeks ago and I had to bite my tongue (to try and avoid confrontation) when she laughingly stated "it's only flu" as well as all the other uninformed tripe we have heard since the onset of the pandemic. Well, I did quit biting momentarily to disagree that COVID is flu. Even so, who wants to get flu either when it could be avoided by taking some reasonable precautions recommended by medical folks as well as one's own basic powers of reasoning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2023 02:39PM by Nightingale.

Just hoping some dark humour might get through to some people so that they will take the virus seriously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2023 04:33PM by anybody.

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just hoping some dark humour might get through to
> some people so that they will take the virus
> seriously.

I usually always hope for the best. And sometimes for logic, reason, science, medicine and/or incontrovertible proof to win out.

On the subject of COVID, I recently just completely gave up.

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anybody Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just hoping some dark humour might get through
> to
> > some people so that they will take the virus
> > seriously.
>
> I usually always hope for the best. And sometimes
> for logic, reason, science, medicine and/or
> incontrovertible proof to win out.
>
> On the subject of COVID, I recently just
> completely gave up.

Just when everybody became an expert on spike proteins, it was time to pivot to Eastern European politics. Vaccines are so 2022.

Most times when questions related to non-applied logic comes into play. I tend to say, the logic escapes me.

But in this case, the logic escapes them, assuming it was there to even begin with.

I love the line from Forest Gump......."Stupid is as Stupid does".

I just finished RSV and flu shot, latest covid next week. We will be traveling and I will wear a mask. If someone asks, I tell them my mask is not political, just a health statement. It's simple, I don't want to get sick.

moehoward Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's simple, I
> don't want to get sick.

Seems completely reasonable to me!

Covid is already active in my school district, and we have several reports from teachers and staff in the district who have it or recently had it. I am masking up again when I am sitting close to a student.

I just came from a party of people my age. Three people were masked up. No one cared. I had RSV and flu on Sunday. Will get my COVID the next weekend. Two weeks between.

We vax and continue to be very careful. We have not had it, we do not want it. I LOVE LOVE LOVE curbside pickup. Shop the ads and coupons then they load it in the car. I spend a lot less because it cuts way down on impulse shopping and if the total is higher than I like I can rethink and rework what I get. I like how the Vet is doing masks. They will take them in back and no need for a mask but if you want the Vet to come in the room with you, everyone masks up. It was extra important when we had Margaux's well baby check because she is so tiny we get very close and personal lol. I haven known him for 23 years so it isn't awkward :)

That would be okay if they were quarantined indefinitely. The problems are the (1) the rest of us have to bear the costs of their stupidity, and (2) they spread their diseases to the whole rest of humanity. The targets are the very young, who are too young for their own vaccines, and the immunocompromised among us. Anti-vax is not a silly pastime. It can be deadly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2023 01:13AM by slskipper.

Yesterday, my sister got a text message that her daughter, my niece, had COVID again and wanted my sister to bring her a blanket. I suggested that my sister wear a mask, but she pooh-poohed the idea because she believed that she was just dropping off the blanket with my niece's live-in boyfriend.

Fifteen minutes later, my sister called saying she wished she had followed my advice. It turned out that the niece was sicker than she thought (she was vomiting and showing signs of dehydration). My sister had no masks in her car, and she wound ut driving my niece to the hospital ER.

My sister didn't get home from ER until 11pm last night. This morning, my niece came in to stay in an ad-on "cabin" that my sister had purchased two years ago. Also this morning, my sister began showing signs of having caught COVID herself, and I immediately masked up. My sister tested positive about 4 hours ago. I've worn the mask every time I was out of my bedroom and kept that door closed when I was in. So far so good--but we'll see how I'm doing tomorrow.

Beyond her nausea, my niece was comparing having COVid to having the flu, a comparison that my sister was sharing. I had had COVID in early 2022, and while my experiences then were like that of my sister and niece today, I am also aware that being 11 years older than my sister (putting me at 60 now) with a heart condition, any effect on me could be worse than with my sister and niece.

In the U.S., the vaccines have just been updated, and I'm hoping, assuming that I don't pick up the disease again in the meantime, to be able to get the updated vaccine asap.

The governor of R. Kansas just passed a law banning vaccine mandates.I think she's a knuckle dragger. Just my opinion.

Kansas passed such a law in 2021 following a court ruling.

Arkansas just passed one that was signed by their governor

https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/sarah-huckabee-sanders-signs-bill-205104482.html#:~:text=Arkansas%20Gov.,similar%20ban%20expired%20last%20month.

Since we're telling anecdotal stories, I'll chime in. I have many siblings. 2 of them got double-vaxxed and one of them got boosted. The rest of us didn't get vaxxed.

The 2 that got the vax got Covid. The ones who didn't get vaxxed didn't get sick.

To be clear, I am not against vaccinations. I was more in the wait and see category. And since I worked at home during the pandemic, and I'm in excellent health, I didn't see the urgency. We kept hearing that it would be over soon, so I kept thinking it would go away. After all this time, I just never ended up getting it. And I didn't even catch a cold during the pandemic, even going to a BJJ academy, taking public transportation, and partying like it was 1999.

By far, I've read much more research than anybody on this board. I worked on a case involving MRNA vaccines. I had to read the patents, clinical trials, and reports to government agencies. I can't and won't say any more than that about the case. Let's just say that nobody using Google is going to convince me that they know more, unless they have read more than me. And that's just not possible unless you work for a vaccine maker.

From the news, it's my opinion that the people working on the vaccine were shooting at a moving target. Or they were building an airplane while already in the air. Whatever analogy you want to use, they had an incredibly difficult job.

But sometimes, we get things wrong. We all know the complaints, from heart issues to 5G chips in the vaccines. Some of those complaints have a sliver of the truth, and some of them are downright insane.

What scares me is that anybody who says anything negative about vaccines is immediately shut up. What broke my heart was to see the public meltdowns where people got into brawls because someone didn't want to wear a mask.

All of this feeds into the narrative that "they" (whoever "they" are) are controlling the world and want to keep the masses divided. Whether by race, gender, political affiliation, or religion. And the more public meltdowns we see, the more conspiracy theorists get their confirmation that some mustache-twisting villain in a Swiss chalet is smoking a cigar and trying to figure out ways to get more power and take our rights.

So if somebody wants to get vaccinated, go for it. If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't. But don't you dare tell me what I have to do.

Once again, I'm not against vaccines, even though I just never ended up getting it. What I am against is government mandates or employment mandates.

> What I am
> against is government mandates or employment
> mandates.

Are you opposed to the vaccine mandates for childhood entering schools? Because those are universal.

What about mandatory vaccines for members of the armed services?

Mandatory vaccines for healthcare workers?

If you approve any of those, what is the factor distinguishing "good" mandates and "bad?"

Yes, exactly. A nursing school will not even admit you until you have the required vaccines. Do you want to attend a military academy? Induction day includes required vaccines. Either take the shot, or find something else to do. It has been this way for many years, long preceding the pandemic.

I could also note that those who most loudly proclaim, "My body, my choice" when it comes to vaccines, somehow *don't* feel that way when it comes to women's reproductive choice. Funny how that works, isn't' it?

As a precondition for daycare and elementary, middle, and high schools, all 50 states require vaccinations against diptheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, rubella, and chicken pox; and all states but Iowa additionally mandate vaccination against mumps. A lot of states require additional vaccines.

The US armed forces require that personnel be vaccinated against chickenpox, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, mumps, measles, rubella, rabies, diptheria, tetanus, pertussis, typhoid, polio and, annually, influenza. There are additional mandatory vaccinations for those deployed to different parts of the world, including anthrax, yellow fever, and Japanese encephalitis.

With the exception of a few vaccines that were developed more recently, these various mandates have been in place for decades. It is therefore strange that people would focus on the COVID vaccines, or nearly equivalently, on mRNA vaccines and assert that they represent a threat to individual liberties. Anyone who was in public school or the military since 1960 has already had many mandatory vaccinations.

Same as now stupidity is a badge of valor.

>>>I've read much more research than anybody on this board. ...And that's just not possible unless you work for a vaccine maker.

Well, I was working for a global pharmaceutical company that was involved with vaccines, COVID research, and multiple uses of mRNA in products.

You have a few things right, IMO, that typically come from people who are non scientists "doing their own research." ALL vaccines have anecdotal stories about problems. Sure, the vaccine isn't perfect, but improves as we learn more. The first Model T car does not perform like a Ferrari right away. We (manufacturers of vaccines) did the best we could with what we knew and kept correcting as new information was obtained. Efficacy is monitored constantly and actions are taken.

Where is your comparison to the lives saved vs. the lives lost? Where is your overall comparison of benefit vs harm?

How much time did you spend in hospitals at the height of the pandemic? Did you review the worst cases to see which had vaccines? Did you not find that the vaccine never claimed to prevent catching COVID, but was more effective preventing the illness progressing to respiratory failure?

Thanks to views like yours, we get pockets of mumps outbreaks while ignoring what it would be like with no vaccine at all. People who expect perfection from science at the outbreak are going to be disappointed every time. We only know what we know as efforts are made to correct and improve. Meanwhile people point to the extremely small number (by comparison) of ill effects. Fine. We lost a million people from COVID. We could have lost a lot more.

Maybe you could send in your combined research to the CDC so they can hear from the expert.

I almost mentioned you although there are one or two others whom I suspect of expertise on the topic. The bottom line is that it's rash to assume one knows more than anyone else on a board, the significant majority of whose members rarely and sometimes never post.

*Repositioned



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2023 08:00PM by Lot's Wife.

As I stated above, I lurked on a nurses' message board during the pandemic, and wow, did they ever go through hell and back, especially the ER and ICU nurses. I felt so sorry for them. Their patients really did beg for the vaccine when it was too late for them -- not all of them of course, but enough to be notable. Those who didn't were often in denial up until the moment of their deaths. Their families were often vile (and sometimes violent) towards the nurses. Many nurses had to be escorted by security to their cars at the end of their shifts -- all for doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. That was their thanks -- to be threatened by the Covidiots for trying to save their loved ones.

There was a "type" that was struck down so often by Covid that it became a meme -- male, over 50, overweight, with one or more comorbidities. Men (and women) who fit this stereotype and didn't get vaccinated were literally taking their lives in their hands.

I personally was so grateful for the vaccine. When I got my first dose, it felt more meaningful to me than any communion wafer ever did. It represented life to me and to my loved ones. The first person to be vaccinated in Maryland was a PhD candidate in immunology at the University of Maryland. I figure if he was willing, so would I be willing. He knows more about human immune response than I ever will.

Thank you for your work, Dagny. This schoolmarm is extremely grateful. I've seen various diseases fly around schools with great speed. You allowed us to return to the classroom safely to continue educating children.

The sibs that got it lived. It AMAZES me that so many didn't understand that no one ever said it would prevent you getting it. It increases the chances of you not getting seriously ill or worse. Then they thought if they did get a shot that it meant that they could put themselves in high risk conditions. Sigh.

The three in our house are vaxed. All three of us were careful. The three of us CONTINUE to be careful. None of us have had it.

>A mRNA shot isn’t a vaccine. A vaccine is a dilute dose of something.

Incorrect.
The definition of a vaccine

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

"Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose."

Vaccines can contain many different things.

There are vaccines that contain attenuated live viruses e.g. MMR, smallpox, varicella

There are vaccines that contain inactivated viruses e.g. polio, influenza

There are vaccines that contain only certain viral proteins e.g. Hepatitis B, shingles

There are vaccines that contain polysaccharides from bacterial cell walls e.g. pneumococcus, meningococcus

There are vaccines that contain an inactivated toxin e.g. tetanus, diphtheria

There are vaccines that use other viruses to introduce the antigen being vaccinated against e.g. the J&J covid vaccine.

>mRNA shots make your body produce spike proteins

Yes it does. And the Novavax covid vaccine introduces spike proteins directly into your body.

The spike protein by itself is non-pathogenic.

The common thread is that all vaccines produce an immune response to the antigen that can provide protection from subsequent infection from the target of the vaccine.