Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
"But now a spokesperson for the church tells VICE News that while the apostle in question, President M. Russell Ballard, was once close to Tim Ballard—to whom he is not related, despite their sharing a last name—the OUR founder 'betrayed their friendship, through the unauthorized use of President Ballard’s name for Tim Ballard’s personal advantage and activity regarded as morally unacceptable.'”
https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvjypz/mormon-church-denounces-tim-ballards-morally-unacceptable-activities
https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvjypz/mormon-church-denounces-tim-ballards-morally-unacceptable-activities
While on the lift back up the mountain, English teacher, could you explain how that sentence is grammatically sound?
"the OUR founder 'betrayed their friendship, through the unauthorized use of President Ballard’s name for Tim Ballard’s personal advantage and activity regarded as morally unacceptable.'”
On your point, it's interesting that the church was silent on Tim Ballard's actual operations. The Q15 appears to have been very careful not to say something overtly political.
"the OUR founder 'betrayed their friendship, through the unauthorized use of President Ballard’s name for Tim Ballard’s personal advantage and activity regarded as morally unacceptable.'”
On your point, it's interesting that the church was silent on Tim Ballard's actual operations. The Q15 appears to have been very careful not to say something overtly political.
Ha ha! It's Friday afternoon, and I have officially hung up my Grammar Police badge for the weekend.
Well then, I'll expect a report on Monday--assuming you don't break a leg on the Maryland pistes before then.
Ah yes, *sigh*. Being close to my family did have a price attached to it. Maryland has many charms, but excellent skiing is not one of them. Plus, a rather extensive leg and ankle injury made any further adventures on the slopes unwise at best. :/
Sorry to hear about your leg.
I'm still pretty active physically. People warn me that I shouldn't do stupid stuff because I'll get injured. I reply that I can't get injured because then I'd have to stop doing stupid stuff.
I increasingly rely on chewing gum and duct tape. . .
I'm still pretty active physically. People warn me that I shouldn't do stupid stuff because I'll get injured. I reply that I can't get injured because then I'd have to stop doing stupid stuff.
I increasingly rely on chewing gum and duct tape. . .
Good for you, Lottie! A friend of mine skied well into her 80s. I wouldn't even consider it without extensive conditioning, and even then...probably not a good idea. I do miss it.
Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While on the lift back up the mountain, English
> teacher, could you explain how that sentence is
> grammatically sound?
>
> "the OUR founder 'betrayed their friendship,
> through the unauthorized use of President
> Ballard’s name for Tim Ballard’s personal
> advantage and activity regarded as morally
> unacceptable.'”
>
> On your point, it's interesting that the church
> was silent on Tim Ballard's actual operations. The
> Q15 appears to have been very careful not to say
> something overtly political.
I'm not sure which is worse about Vice... the fact it pretends to be indy media, the horrible writing or the fact it has been bailed out by wealthy interests several times in the last few years.
No doubt AI played a large part in writing this "article" – the latest horror.
-------------------------------------------------------
> While on the lift back up the mountain, English
> teacher, could you explain how that sentence is
> grammatically sound?
>
> "the OUR founder 'betrayed their friendship,
> through the unauthorized use of President
> Ballard’s name for Tim Ballard’s personal
> advantage and activity regarded as morally
> unacceptable.'”
>
> On your point, it's interesting that the church
> was silent on Tim Ballard's actual operations. The
> Q15 appears to have been very careful not to say
> something overtly political.
I'm not sure which is worse about Vice... the fact it pretends to be indy media, the horrible writing or the fact it has been bailed out by wealthy interests several times in the last few years.
No doubt AI played a large part in writing this "article" – the latest horror.
My parents were friends with Russell M Ballard. What I know about the guy is he was always busy with his church assignments and travelled a ton. I don’t think Russell M had much time to get involved in anything outside the church.
From the article
"At a meeting with Tim Ballard and a group of his associates, who claimed to have “visions and special intelligence of the second coming,” the former development director said, she was made aware that this venture had to do with God calling Tim Ballard to “restore America to the covenant.”
“Tim said multiple times, ‘It's his job to use the sizzle of the rescue to lead people back to the Mormon covenant,’” Lopez said, according to Purdy’s report. “Dave stated that according to Tim, that's what this is all about, that's why he's doing all the movies and all the storytelling. He believes the Mormon Church is actually doing that with him, that Elder (M. Russell) Ballard of the Mormon Church is working with him on that secret agenda. He believes that it's his job to be this famous kind of celebrity that gets everyone's attention, but then in turn leads everyone to Mormonism."
Lopez told investigators that Tim Ballard had developed a messianic view of himself. "Dave said he thinks Tim is fully convinced that he is supposed to be the 'Mormon Messiah and lead people back to the church,'" the report reads.
"Per the report, the woman added that, according to Tim Ballard, “restoring America to the covenant was ‘a big mission of his (Tim)’ and he was ‘called’ of ‘God’ to do this. She added that he was, in Purdy’s retelling, “very verbal about Elder Russell Ballard’s involvement and behind it” but added “that she didn’t know if she believed that.”
Another hidden agenda?
"Allegations from a former OUR higher-up as well as text messages contained in the documents obtained by VICE News suggest that Tim Ballard and an associate represented Elder Ballard as a partner in a for-profit business called Slave Stealers, which was pitched as a way to control OUR and other non-profits. It was apparently viewed as part of a scheme that would allow Tim Ballard to monetize the notoriety he gained through his often exaggerated exploits."
"At a meeting with Tim Ballard and a group of his associates, who claimed to have “visions and special intelligence of the second coming,” the former development director said, she was made aware that this venture had to do with God calling Tim Ballard to “restore America to the covenant.”
“Tim said multiple times, ‘It's his job to use the sizzle of the rescue to lead people back to the Mormon covenant,’” Lopez said, according to Purdy’s report. “Dave stated that according to Tim, that's what this is all about, that's why he's doing all the movies and all the storytelling. He believes the Mormon Church is actually doing that with him, that Elder (M. Russell) Ballard of the Mormon Church is working with him on that secret agenda. He believes that it's his job to be this famous kind of celebrity that gets everyone's attention, but then in turn leads everyone to Mormonism."
Lopez told investigators that Tim Ballard had developed a messianic view of himself. "Dave said he thinks Tim is fully convinced that he is supposed to be the 'Mormon Messiah and lead people back to the church,'" the report reads.
"Per the report, the woman added that, according to Tim Ballard, “restoring America to the covenant was ‘a big mission of his (Tim)’ and he was ‘called’ of ‘God’ to do this. She added that he was, in Purdy’s retelling, “very verbal about Elder Russell Ballard’s involvement and behind it” but added “that she didn’t know if she believed that.”
Another hidden agenda?
"Allegations from a former OUR higher-up as well as text messages contained in the documents obtained by VICE News suggest that Tim Ballard and an associate represented Elder Ballard as a partner in a for-profit business called Slave Stealers, which was pitched as a way to control OUR and other non-profits. It was apparently viewed as part of a scheme that would allow Tim Ballard to monetize the notoriety he gained through his often exaggerated exploits."
"Dave said he thinks Tim is fully convinced that he is supposed to be the 'Mormon Messiah and lead people back to the church,'"
So it was natural for Jesus to play him in the movie.
Vice is a highly biased source. What I get from this is that Tim Ballard never left missionary mode. He became addicted to the Kool Aid. If the Tim Ballards of the world want to play cowboy and then publish their exploits, their motives should be questioned. Just not by Vice. Too much noise.
In the movie, Tim put his life at risk to save a little girl. Very heartwarming, but what if his personal mission had gotten him killed? No more saving anyone. There's a reason HSI isn't reckless with its assets. Sure, the myth of a Mormon Rambo is compelling. It's also as ridiculous as Stallone's franchise. How does Ballard's vigilantism serve the rule of law?
So it was natural for Jesus to play him in the movie.
Vice is a highly biased source. What I get from this is that Tim Ballard never left missionary mode. He became addicted to the Kool Aid. If the Tim Ballards of the world want to play cowboy and then publish their exploits, their motives should be questioned. Just not by Vice. Too much noise.
In the movie, Tim put his life at risk to save a little girl. Very heartwarming, but what if his personal mission had gotten him killed? No more saving anyone. There's a reason HSI isn't reckless with its assets. Sure, the myth of a Mormon Rambo is compelling. It's also as ridiculous as Stallone's franchise. How does Ballard's vigilantism serve the rule of law?
That is an incredible level of delusion.
Ballard responds to the condemnation from the Mormon church:
https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/tim-ballard-responds-to-condemnation-from-his-own-church
IMO he doesn't look well.
https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/tim-ballard-responds-to-condemnation-from-his-own-church
IMO he doesn't look well.
Dang, Jesus gets crucified again!
He certainly doesn't. Especially with Fox giving the lowdown on where the statement came from, directly from Media Relations for the cult. And they interspersed it with clips of Ballard saying "I don't believe this came from the church! Has the LDS church ever publicly condemned one of their members like this?"
It was a stupid move by the church PR Department. Glenn Beck has called the church out. The old men in the Administration Building better do some good damage control or more exits are going to happen.
Letting a guy like that set himself up to be the next Captain Moroni wouldn't have been good for the church either, though.
Yeah, I think with Tim's rumored future plans in mind, the church felt backed into a corner. Reportedly any mention of him has been scrubbed from official church websites.
All I know is the guy n the church PR dept that contacted Vice was dumb. That’s a rogue hit job. We all know if the church leadership have a problem with you you get called in by your stake president. They don’t email some rag.
Smells like dirty Utah politics. Rumor is Captain Moroni was going to run for office.
Smells like dirty Utah politics. Rumor is Captain Moroni was going to run for office.
It’s a pooch screw and it’s entertaining as hell. If you want a weird blowup you can always count on the church.
The church is blowing at both ends. It’s losing both its liberal and right leaning members at the same time. The corporation hates Captain Moroni. It’s too busy schmoozing with the UN and G7 leaders.
The church is blowing at both ends. It’s losing both its liberal and right leaning members at the same time. The corporation hates Captain Moroni. It’s too busy schmoozing with the UN and G7 leaders.
The church "is too busy schmoozing with the UN and G7 leaders."
That is delusional. Church leaders may occasionally land a meeting with an important world leader but, as with the pope, they end up sitting in the short chairs and are ushered out after 15 minutes.
Mormon influence on the UN and G7 measures is non-existent.
That is delusional. Church leaders may occasionally land a meeting with an important world leader but, as with the pope, they end up sitting in the short chairs and are ushered out after 15 minutes.
Mormon influence on the UN and G7 measures is non-existent.
Did you read the article? I'm not sure you did.
1) The investigation was started by VICE, which obtained and published the records. The church did not start this but was forced to react to it.
------------
2) You write that
> All I know is the guy n the church PR dept that
> contacted Vice was dumb. That’s a rogue hit job.
Nonsense. After doing the research and publishing articles, VICE contacted the church asking for comment. The church's official statement was formulated through normal church procedures, including review by attorneys and probably the Q12. There was nothing "rogue" about it.
The message was intentional and carefully crafted.
-----------
3) You write that publishing in VICE was "dumb." But then contradict yourself by noting that.
> If the announcement were made through the Wall Street Journal,
> the church would get a lot more attention than it wants.
Of course the church wanted to avoid the WSJ because of the attention it would garner. So what was it supposed to do? Ignore the VICE material and the continuing investigations until they percolated up to the mainstream news? Or try to shut down the rumors directly through communication with VICE. You have already explained why that was the wiser approach.
-----------------
4) You write that:
> We all know if the church leadership have a
> problem with you you get called in by your stake
> president.
No, that is incorrect. They go to your stake president if the problem is containable by the stake president. But when a person or entity has already achieved national stature and is gaining wealth and fame through its false association with the church leadership, the church will and must make the correction publicly.
5) The church doesn't "email some rag."
Yes it does. When a media outlet causes a problem, the church generally goes right at that source in order to kill the story at the earliest possible moment. And in this case, as you have said, avoiding the national press is better than escalating the Ballard-Ballard claims to the front pages of the big papers.
The "rag" was exactly the right forum for a response.
-------------------------
> Smells like dirty Utah politics. Rumor is Captain
> Moroni was going to run for office.
Dirty politics? Uh, yeah, No one is going to dispute that.
But it is much more than just Congress: the mere association of this jackass is harmful to the church. He makes money off the church's name, off of Russell Ballard's name, and he claims to be a de facto church leader even as he does things that are probably criminal.
Is it inappropriate for the church to want to stop that? Of course not. Rogue individuals do not get to lie about connections to powerful individuals or organizations in order to garner more money and fame.
--------------
The church handled this wisely and appropriately. There was nothing "rogue" about this except for Tim Ballard himself.
1) The investigation was started by VICE, which obtained and published the records. The church did not start this but was forced to react to it.
------------
2) You write that
> All I know is the guy n the church PR dept that
> contacted Vice was dumb. That’s a rogue hit job.
Nonsense. After doing the research and publishing articles, VICE contacted the church asking for comment. The church's official statement was formulated through normal church procedures, including review by attorneys and probably the Q12. There was nothing "rogue" about it.
The message was intentional and carefully crafted.
-----------
3) You write that publishing in VICE was "dumb." But then contradict yourself by noting that.
> If the announcement were made through the Wall Street Journal,
> the church would get a lot more attention than it wants.
Of course the church wanted to avoid the WSJ because of the attention it would garner. So what was it supposed to do? Ignore the VICE material and the continuing investigations until they percolated up to the mainstream news? Or try to shut down the rumors directly through communication with VICE. You have already explained why that was the wiser approach.
-----------------
4) You write that:
> We all know if the church leadership have a
> problem with you you get called in by your stake
> president.
No, that is incorrect. They go to your stake president if the problem is containable by the stake president. But when a person or entity has already achieved national stature and is gaining wealth and fame through its false association with the church leadership, the church will and must make the correction publicly.
5) The church doesn't "email some rag."
Yes it does. When a media outlet causes a problem, the church generally goes right at that source in order to kill the story at the earliest possible moment. And in this case, as you have said, avoiding the national press is better than escalating the Ballard-Ballard claims to the front pages of the big papers.
The "rag" was exactly the right forum for a response.
-------------------------
> Smells like dirty Utah politics. Rumor is Captain
> Moroni was going to run for office.
Dirty politics? Uh, yeah, No one is going to dispute that.
But it is much more than just Congress: the mere association of this jackass is harmful to the church. He makes money off the church's name, off of Russell Ballard's name, and he claims to be a de facto church leader even as he does things that are probably criminal.
Is it inappropriate for the church to want to stop that? Of course not. Rogue individuals do not get to lie about connections to powerful individuals or organizations in order to garner more money and fame.
--------------
The church handled this wisely and appropriately. There was nothing "rogue" about this except for Tim Ballard himself.
1. LD$, Inc. removes article promoting him
https://www.fox13now.com/news/fox-13-investigates/lds-church-takes-down-articles-referencing-tim-ballard-and-his-nonprofit
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has removed articles promoting Tim Ballard and the nonprofit he founded, Operation Underground Railroad (OUR).
The removals occurred on the same day of the Church releasing a statement citing betrayal and condemning Ballard for “morally unacceptable” behavior."
The article in question
https://web.archive.org/web/20230915214132/https:/www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/saving-children-tim-ballard-and-operation-underground-railroad?lang=eng
2. The criminal investigation has been going on since at least 2020
https://www.fox13now.com/news/fox-13-investigates/operation-underground-railroad-spent-years-downplaying-criminal-investigation
"As FOX 13 News first reported in 2020, the investigation began with questions about money. Sources close to the investigation say it centered around potential charges of communications fraud and witness tampering.
In 2020, Davis County Attorney Troy Rawlings posted these messages on his personal Instagram account:
"Please be aware of any individual entity or organization who solicits your money and may be claiming credit for work to protect children that is actually done by our task force... They have had absolutely zero involvement in any of these arrests and successful prosecutions you see on display on the 'Wall of Shame' in the Davis County Attorney's Office.”
https://www.fox13now.com/news/fox-13-investigates/lds-church-takes-down-articles-referencing-tim-ballard-and-his-nonprofit
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has removed articles promoting Tim Ballard and the nonprofit he founded, Operation Underground Railroad (OUR).
The removals occurred on the same day of the Church releasing a statement citing betrayal and condemning Ballard for “morally unacceptable” behavior."
The article in question
https://web.archive.org/web/20230915214132/https:/www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/saving-children-tim-ballard-and-operation-underground-railroad?lang=eng
2. The criminal investigation has been going on since at least 2020
https://www.fox13now.com/news/fox-13-investigates/operation-underground-railroad-spent-years-downplaying-criminal-investigation
"As FOX 13 News first reported in 2020, the investigation began with questions about money. Sources close to the investigation say it centered around potential charges of communications fraud and witness tampering.
In 2020, Davis County Attorney Troy Rawlings posted these messages on his personal Instagram account:
"Please be aware of any individual entity or organization who solicits your money and may be claiming credit for work to protect children that is actually done by our task force... They have had absolutely zero involvement in any of these arrests and successful prosecutions you see on display on the 'Wall of Shame' in the Davis County Attorney's Office.”
There's nothing more dangerous than a man who is absolutely certain he is doing God's work.
This mania about child trafficing reminds me a lot of the 80's and 90's satanic cult hysteria.
I agree -- it seems like a mania.
Agreed.
The phenomenon exists and must be taken seriously, but Tim Ballard looks a lot like Sally Struthers with a bandana and an assault rifle.
The phenomenon exists and must be taken seriously, but Tim Ballard looks a lot like Sally Struthers with a bandana and an assault rifle.
Offhand anyone want to guess how many MLM's and or non-profit charities the church and its members support?
They sure seem to be caught up in scam after scam.
They sure seem to be caught up in scam after scam.
UPDATE: another article from Vice News today adds clarifying info:
[Excerpt]
Tim Ballard’s Departure From Operation Underground Railroad Followed Sexual Misconduct Investigation
by Anna Merlan 18 Sep 2023
https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkaqvn/tim-ballards-departure-from-operation-underground-railroad-followed-sexual-misconduct-investigation
Tim Ballard’s exit from Operation Underground Railroad earlier this year followed an investigation into claims of sexual misconduct involving seven women, according to sources with direct knowledge of the organization.
Sources familiar with the situation said that the self-styled anti-slavery activist, who appears to be preparing for a Senate run, invited women to act as his “wife” on undercover overseas missions ostensibly aimed at rescuing victims of sex trafficking. He would then allegedly coerce those women into sharing a bed or showering together, claiming that it was necessary to fool traffickers. Ballard, who was played by Jim Caviezel in the hit film Sound of Freedom, is said to have sent at least one woman a photo of himself in his underwear, festooned with fake tattoos, and to have asked another “how far she was willing to go,” in the words of a source, to save children. These sources requested anonymity because they fear retaliation.
The total number of women involved is believed to be higher than seven, as that would only account for employees, not contractors or volunteers. One source close to OUR has detailed knowledge of Ballard making sexual advances to a volunteer using methods similar to those he allegedly used with OUR employees. Those methods are also consistent with his conduct toward another former volunteer who spoke to VICE News....
[Excerpt]
Tim Ballard’s Departure From Operation Underground Railroad Followed Sexual Misconduct Investigation
by Anna Merlan 18 Sep 2023
https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkaqvn/tim-ballards-departure-from-operation-underground-railroad-followed-sexual-misconduct-investigation
Tim Ballard’s exit from Operation Underground Railroad earlier this year followed an investigation into claims of sexual misconduct involving seven women, according to sources with direct knowledge of the organization.
Sources familiar with the situation said that the self-styled anti-slavery activist, who appears to be preparing for a Senate run, invited women to act as his “wife” on undercover overseas missions ostensibly aimed at rescuing victims of sex trafficking. He would then allegedly coerce those women into sharing a bed or showering together, claiming that it was necessary to fool traffickers. Ballard, who was played by Jim Caviezel in the hit film Sound of Freedom, is said to have sent at least one woman a photo of himself in his underwear, festooned with fake tattoos, and to have asked another “how far she was willing to go,” in the words of a source, to save children. These sources requested anonymity because they fear retaliation.
The total number of women involved is believed to be higher than seven, as that would only account for employees, not contractors or volunteers. One source close to OUR has detailed knowledge of Ballard making sexual advances to a volunteer using methods similar to those he allegedly used with OUR employees. Those methods are also consistent with his conduct toward another former volunteer who spoke to VICE News....
A caution to anybody considering believing the word of Russel M. Ballard. He is part of a religious organization that has a very troubled relationship with the truth.
Let me put it another way. One of the co-founders of Vice media is Gavin McInnes, the guy who founded the Proud Boys.
I'll just leave that here
Let me put it another way. One of the co-founders of Vice media is Gavin McInnes, the guy who founded the Proud Boys.
I'll just leave that here