What do y'all think?

It's not the temples, IMO. It's parking money in land. How much land is enough? That's like asking a billionaire how many billions is enough.

Kick back and enjoy the show. The church is doing more damage to itself than anyone. The rampant temple building is just making the church look crazed.

In order to make money from the land where a temple is built, wouldn't they have to decommission the temple and tear it down? How would they spin this? It is like having my name engraved in a valuable item. It makes it hard to sell the item to recoup the value.

IMO

Temples are a very long term land investment. Running the temple gets tax breaks while it sits there. Over decades, the land becomes extremely valuable. They know which areas are set for upscale growth. Right now they don't need to unload any of them.

They also tend to continue to buy land around the temples and build other stuff (like malls, condos, upscale housing, etc.).

+1000

BING! BING! BING! We have a winner! Long term land grabs plus, "someone" gets paid for building them. And then, of course, they need renovation on a regular basis and "someone" gets paid for that too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2023 07:28PM by Susan I/S.

They charge to park at the temples?

Tonopah Nevada one.

I guess I could look it up. I once upon a time spent an evening in Tonopah. My friend from work lived there after she got married the third time. She asked us to stop on the way home from Hawaii as we drove to CA to catch the plane to Hawaii.

It was a fabulous place to visit????????????

Yes, I'm a big kidder.

They are building one in Elko instead of one in Wendover. I always get a kick out of seeing all the vehicles with UT plates turning off at Wendover whenever I drive west on I-80.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2023 10:40AM by messygoop.

Any religion that knows how many temples it has doesn’t have that many temples.

And what would mormon Shriners drive in local parades?

Ox carts

A JS Sphinxmobile

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2382/5805133490_db0f4530e0_b.jpg

I think the Mormon church is aiming to have one in every medium-sized city, and in many smaller cities. They think if they build it people (and their tithing dollars) will come.

Too Many? > False Concept/Idea.

I Doubt they will ever sell one, so it's not really an investment...

A thousand temples to usher in the Millennium. I heard someone say this out loud. At least some of the true believers would salivate at the prospect. It’s a great rallying cry, and one the church can actually deliver on. It just takes money and patience.

The ownership class of the church buys a chunk of agricultural land. Then they give orders for the elite brethren to build a temple there. None of their money is used for the construction, but they give it a tiny piece of the land. Next they bribe local governments into changing the zoning law from agricultural to residential. The average price per acre of ag land is just under $200,000. Five houses per acre. Each will sell for $700,000. The average 5 bedroom house goes for $500,000, right now, but the temple neighborhoods are premium, on account of vanity.

All happy for the shiny wealthy people.

I had so many typos in this.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2023 03:40AM by donbagley.

First, ag land most certainly does not go for $200K an acre. I assume you meant residential land averages $200K per acre.

Approximately 20% of the land is going to go for infrastructure, mostly streets and sidewalks. So, not 5 houses per acre - maybe 4.

Lots next to a temple may go for a premium along the Wasatch Front. If anything, it is a detriment in the larger world. I don't see lots in Cody going for a big markup anytime soon.

Houses do
not leap from the ground fully formed, like the children of Zeus. Somebody has to build them. That costs money, So the sale of a house for $500K is hardly 100% profit. Or even 50%.

Oh, and bribes cost money. That comes out of the profit too. And the legal fees for the lawsuits. They cost money.

And it costs money to market, sell, and close on houses. And remember, these houses are probably selling at a discount because there is this monstrosity temple next door.

I'm not saying some money can't be made, but it is nowhere close to $700K per house. $100K maybe, maybe a little more.

Of the two "mission field" temples that I am familiar with, in Bismarck, ND and Winnipeg, MB, there really wasn't any land available nearby for the local Mormons to make money off of them. Bismarck was already pretty built up in the neighborhood of the temple, and in Winnipeg, the surrounding area is a large townhouse development on two sides of the triangular lot, all owned by a single developer, and the third side of the triangle is a strip mall, with a KFC, a nutrition supplement store, a salad restaurant, and a coffee shop. Across the street is a veterinary hospital and a provincial liquor mart. (temple is at NE corner of Kenaston Blvd, and North town Road, if you want to look it up)

They don't build temples because there is a real estate killing to be made. They build the temples because it increases tithing receipts, keeps the members brainwashed, and raises the profile of the church in the local community. Any supposed real estate profits are petty cash, and if it is the local members making this money, then the church is only getting 10% of petty cash.

This is a church that makes an estimated $7,000 million (aka $7 billion) in tithing receipts, and I'd conservatively estimate another $10,000 million (aka $10 billion) on growth of the $150 billion managed by Ensign Peak Advisors.

So lets hypothetically say they make $2 million per temple in local real estate profits from building a temple, times 20 temples (most of which are out of the US these days, so I doubt there is anywhere near the real estate opportunities).

That would be a hypothetical $40 million, raising the net income of the church for that year from $17,000 million to $17,040 million. That ain't nothin', but it ain't much, either. LDS Inc has much easier ways to make $40 million than to build 20 temples. (and that is all hypothetical - I seriously doubt they make anywhere near that much off temple construction).

Spot on. Way more easier ways to get a return on investment than building temples. The church builds temples because they can, it fulfills prophecy and the church is ran by delusional religious fanatics and the current fanatic in charge wants to leave a legacy.

>>Way more easier ways to get a return on investment than building temples.

Oh, obviously they have tons of other investments. They have so much money, they have to park it all kinds of places. Some of the investments have to look like they spend some on the actual religion.

Comfortable baby boomers with good retirements and investments are selling their mega homes making a ton Rooney are turning around and buying houses.

Investment companies are doing the same thing.

That's the reason families making more than minimum wages, two incomes can't afford ah house and barely afford a rental.

Here in western Washington, one can't find a three bedroom house too rent for less than $2500/month, Seattle area higher. two bedroom apartments go for $2000 or more.

SLC is just playing the money game like all the moneyed people.

The land averages $2800 per acre, so you're right. I just looked it up. That makes the profit margin a lot more than I said. Plus I said the houses will sell for $700K. Where do you get that I said that was all profit? They make fortunes. Also what part of ancillary income don't you get. Don't you think contractors get sweet deals? It's an industry whether or not you want to believe it. It's huge, and maybe even bigger than your arrogance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2023 06:54AM by donbagley.

I have seen this occur in the past few years with a temple or two that are proposed to be built.

We know of the family (s) that donated the land. It's a smart financial move. They donate a small part of it to the church and then start building residential homes all around the plot of land that they feel the temple will be built.

I imagine when they sell those homes they will be worth a pretty penny.

To me it stinks of corruption of some sort, but I can't put my finger on it.

They turn some cheaper agricultural land into high priced homes and make a ton of money, all with the Church's cooperation.

There are better spots they could build the temple but they build it where the land was donated.

If I were actually someone from the Lord (and I could never be as I'm a never'mo) leading the church, I'd spite these rich land owners aiming to get rich.

I'd buy ANOTHER plot of land completely on the otherside of town away from where they donated the land and build my Holy Building there. Then I'd use their land they donated as a dump or something. Let's see them make a bazillion bucks then.

Show them what happens to the Rich in the Kingdom...and just what I would think of their get rich schemes. Of course...I'd aim more to elevate the poor rather than the rich as well.

But, I'm just some poor colored person in the Morridor so I'm counted as a nobody to them already anyways.

I have seen this in Cache Valley. Hubby and I were out on a Sunday drive in the more rural parts of the valley and crested a hill and out in the middle of a large alfalfa field was a ward house/chapel being built and roughed in roads for future homes. And a sign with who to call if you were interested in a building lot. It was bizarre. We just stopped the car and stared at it all. It was a very odd feeling to see the church deciding where and how a neighborhood was created by their tax free dollars.

Putting temples all over the world gives the leadership somewhere to "hole up" if part of the world goes to war.... besides it being a money making move. My totally TBM oldest second anointed bro. is spending a lot of time in Wash, DC. and I don't know why. (He is a former law partner of Whitney Clayton.) That would not be his choice of places to retire. I have a hunch it may have something to do with the church and politics.

"Of the two "mission field" temples that I am familiar with, in Bismarck, ND and Winnipeg, MB, there really wasn't any land available nearby for the local Mormons to make money off of them. Bismarck was already pretty built up in the neighborhood of the temple, and in Winnipeg, the surrounding area is a large townhouse development on two sides of the triangular lot, all owned by a single developer, and the third side of the triangle is a strip mall, with a KFC, a nutrition supplement store, a salad restaurant, and a coffee shop. Across the street is a veterinary hospital and a provincial liquor mart. (temple is at NE corner of Kenaston Blvd, and North town Road, if you want to look it up)"

KFC? Throw in a Tim Horton's and I am dropping that nest egg in the Winnipeg Temple neighborhood.

HI, DON!

OMG! Makes perfect sense donbagley.

It took me a lot of reading to put that together.

When are they going to put temples on Boardwalk and Park Place?

I was in St. George UT recently and took the opportunity to drive between the new temple under construction there and the recently refurbished historic temple (now open for public tours!)

I drove the shortest routes between the two going with the traffic flow. I did hit a couple of green traffic lights but was somewhat amazed that the travel time between the two was only Seven Minutes!

I don't believe that even the plethora of northern Utah temples are quite that close together.

St. George has two temples?!!

Yes. The historic temple built in the 1870's and recently refurbished. Seven minutes away will be the Red Cliffs Temple which is almost ready for an open house.

Why I don't know.

to make people forget about the $5 million SEC fine. :0

Exactly, sd!

Building a temple in Moses Lake, WA, is definitely one more than enough.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Building a temple in Moses Lake, WA, is definitely
> one more than enough.


Yes, but you can never have too many of the same post!!!

  
  

Not anytime soon.

Maybe by the time struggling little Raymond, Alberta gets one, it'll be enough.

Grabbing tax exempt land in the US and around the world, especially developing nations, is the a most insidious kind of speculating/prospecting. Just look at where they're building churches.

Take Nigeria for instance. MAJOR (developing) economic powerhouse and international business hub, they're the 9th largest petroleum exporter,massive telecommunications industry, not to mention tech, pharmaceuticals and commodities. AND TOURISM. It's not a coincidence that two of the temples are located near the beach resort areas are, and another in the center of the country's business district? In their "nollywood" entertainment district? They have an educated populace, with the government supporting education through university. Take all of those things together, and you get a burgeoning middle-upper middle class in the next decade or so. Like what india experienced in the mid-late 90's. You know what they'll need? Malls, Luxury apartments, resorts and attractions in tourist districts.

Based on the church's bloated rolls, Nigeria has about 200,000 (10 years ago, they claimed 100k, I doubt they grew by 10k a year, but whatever..) mormons. That's less than half the number of mormons just in salt lake county. However, they've got one temple and they're building three more, all in the very far west and south west. Three of them are within 60 to 100 miles from each other. They are building approximately 69k sqft on a total of about 16 acres. That's nearly 3.4 sqft open for every mormon in Nigeria at any/all given times.
Why would they need to build 4 great and spacious buildings for 222,000 mormons. Well, we'll see when they become resorts, malls, condos and tourist attractions.

Mozambique: a country with growing gold, mineral gas and other mining exports, along with a giant tourism industry there. 18k mormons there only? NBD, the temple is going to be in the major eco/oceanfront/fishing tourism industry town.In 10 years, it will be a tiny two room temple, with the rest of the land sold to Marriott and/or operating their own amusement/resort/condos.

South Africa, 3 temples with a cumulative 56k sqft for a whopping total of (allegedly) 77k mormons in the country.

Republic of congo: 12k sqft for 11k members.

I could do this for all the countries, especially peru and brazil. I think they have like 1k members in brazil and around 300sqft among the many temples. THose aren't being used.

These will eventually become real estate bought at bottom dollar pricing.

I meant 1.4m not k mormons in brazil, and a total (built/in construction/announced) temple space of nearly 500k sq ft over 20 temples.

1-2 million mormons is a drop in the bucket out of 215 million Brazilians. ESPECIALLY when you consider the 2010 brazilian census counted 220,000 mormons, while the LDS "official" count in 2010 was multiple times more than that, at 1,103,000 mormons.

Why would they build 20 temples there, with 11 either just announced or just broke ground a couple months ago if there wasn't an ulterior motive, or multiple ulterior motives including land investment for the future, money laundering via costs of building these temples, kickbacks for mormon suppliers, etc.

SOmething is rotten in the state of brazil, and the state of LDS temple building.

Sooner or later they will not have enough labor to run all of those temples. Doesn't the church already have temples that are only open one day a week? How many more of those to they really need?

I think the majority are open by appointment most days. I guess.. enter the call for all retirees to serve a senior mission and staff the temples and visitor centers.

With many temples being less than an hour to two hours away, a small group of sr missionaries could run the whole show for multiple temples. Greeters, matrons, veil workers, people who turn on the film. All done by 4 people.

The main expense would be the air conditioning.

I'd like to know how ballsy they're capable of being. Maybe some won't even be finished inside, and they'll just happen to be closed every time someone schedules a session. Or they'll be furnished with what was torn out of the temples that have undergone renovations in the past 10 years. And you know the converts in those parts of the world have bigger fish to fry than dressing up in the most expensive cheap clothing, watching a powerpoint, doing some handshakes, and then sitting in a white and glass appointed glorified waiting room.

But that land will be good as the finest gold in 1-2 decades.

Here's a sample weekly schedule of how a temple outside of Zion may operate.

Sun-Mon closed
Tues -Temple staff trainings and supervision of volunteer cleaning staff who comes to clean the temple
Wed -Temple staff training in am, try to have a 2pm-7pm sessions* if no groups have reserved sessions then staff is sent home early
Thu -Morning sessions 10-12pm, Afternoon sessions 2pm-7pm
Fri & Sat similar to Thu schedule, but these are the days where extra sessions are planned for and the only days when live sealings are done (and Saturday is the only day for dead dunkings from the youth).

Here's what is different about attending than when I went to the temple in the 1990s. You have to call the day before you plan to attend to reserve a slot. AND there must be a minimum of ten people for the temple to schedule a session.

It used to be that if you wanted to do baptisms, confirmations or iniatories then you had to provide your own priesthood/temple workers. Otherwise, you could drop in after work during the week and the temple endowment sessions would run every 60 to 90 minutes; they ran like scheduled trains.

Now, you have to call ahead to reserve a "slot" and if they take your name and number. Then the temple staff calls you back to tell you when they are going to "run/schedule" a session. They don't take "walk-ins". It's part of their heightened security. You have to arrive and call them and they open the doors then promptly lock the doors.

My mom goes in a group of six from her ward. She would never go by herself as it's too complicated for her.

Temples must dot the land in prep for the coming of Jesus, Harry Potter, Bigfoot and Frodo. It also helps to maintain tax exempt status which is soooo important. Oaks uses the prase "protect religious freedom" when talking about tax emplt status - which is the 14th commandment. Thou shalt accumulate money and hide it from the tax man.

I am reminded about what Brendan Behan said about drinking, "one drink is too many, but twenty is never enough."

Once they removed the throat slitting penalties way back in 1990, excised the clergyman and removed the films, the USPs evaporated fast.

I've heard they're aiming for 500 by 2030, the 200th anniversary of the church

Used to think that was insane but it's now well within reach (300 announced, under construction or dedicated now)

Yeah, it's amazing what you can buy with that much money.

onanimous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've heard they're aiming for 500 by 2030, the
> 200th anniversary of the church
>
> Used to think that was insane but it's now well
> within reach (300 announced, under construction or
> dedicated now)

Any group that has the magical target date of 2030 is to fall under immediate suspicion. What is the big deal with the date 2030, and why are so many groups desperate to use it as a deadline for aomething?

Our city has 2030 targets. Never explained why, or how it happens to have the same deadline as all these other places worldwide.

Specifically regarding LD$,Inc., 2030 is the 200 year anniversary of the founding of the church.

> What is the big deal with the date 2030, and why are so many groups desperate to use it as a deadline for aomething?

Probably because it’s the end of the decade.

I know that’s not as exciting as a conspiracy involving the UN and the Illuminati and Bill Gates, but realistically, life is usually rather mundane.

> . . .realistically, life is usually rather
> mundane.

That's what members of the conspiracy say when you've caught them!

A thousand temples are never enough and one temple is too many.

It's not the quality but the quantity - of members, and temples - that matters. NEVER enough! Sacreligious

How much cancer is enough ?

det er en i Norge, Uff da!

Trick question?

Shirley, one for every profit, apostate, 70, etc ,, etc., etc. would be too many.

When you have temples in Elko NV and Burley ID - you have gone too far. Best thing about these temples though - you can probably wear you ball cap and bring in a Big Gulp.