One of the few old classic movies that wasn't a Western I got to watch with my Dad was "The Story Of Louis Pasteur" (1936) starring Paul Muni. The most memorable moment in the film was when Pasteur begged his doctor friend to wash his hands before delivering his wife's child.

Germs are real, bacteria are real, and infections can kill you.

Pretending the otherwise is ridiculous and absurd, not a matter of faith.

Take a look at this nonsense from "Healthy Families For God."

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https://www.healthyfamiliesforgod.com/blog/2012/06/milk-healthful-or-harmful

To begin with, we can start by first asking whether or not we think it's important to try and revert back to God's original design for our food. Do we trust that God's design is better than anything Man can design? If not, then I I think the decision would end here and leave the milk for babies, or drink milk that humans and factories have tampered with.

However, if we are to look to God for wisdom and instruction on this topic, we must go to His Word. This is the basis for and foundation of Healthy Families for God. So what does God say about milk?

Did you know that the Bible references milk over 50 times in the Old Testament, and every time it refers to spiritual blessing?

"On that day I swore to them that I would bring them out of the land of Egypt into a land that I had searched out for them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most glorious of all lands." Ezekial 20:6

“We came to the land to which you sent us. It flows with milk and honey, and this is its fruit." Numbers 13:27

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https://www.reddit.com/r/fundiesnarkiesnark/comments/13k8vs4/is_raw_milk_really_fundie/

External-Pianist-506:

My very fundie family recently switched to raw milk. It’s part of a larger movement to reject advances of modern medicine that really came into its own around covid (anti vaxx, home births, etc). The whole movement heavily entrenched in the fundie movement and frankly, pasteurization of milk is one of the most successful public health measures in all of history and it’s stupid that people are rejecting it.

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Ya, Ya, Ya.

Keep worshipping venomous snakes and eventually you'll get bit.

Keep pretending that viruses and bacteria can't kill you and see what happens.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2023 09:56AM by anybody.

Of course they are aware of the bacteria risk. The risk from eating highly processed food and large quantities of sugar without a doubt kills more people prematurely why don’t you mock them.

> The
> risk from eating highly processed food and large
> quantities of sugar without a doubt kills more
> people prematurely [than bacteria]

Can you document that? Do you believe it is true globally?

oaklandguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course they are aware of the bacteria risk. The
> risk from eating highly processed food and large
> quantities of sugar without a doubt kills more
> people prematurely why don’t you mock them.


You're spot on, considerably common knowledge among the aware groups.

ciena Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oaklandguy Wrote:
>
> You're spot on, considerably common knowledge
> among the aware groups.


"Awareness" or thinking that you are one of the "elect" or "chosen" cannot alter science or reality.

> Of course they are aware of the bacteria risk.

And can you document that? I think they may be aware of the risk in theory, but they don’t believe it applies to them. Sort of like people who don’t wear seatbelts.


Oh, and we do mock sugar overconsumption, like those absurd soft drink drive through chains in Utah selling “dirty” sodas. There have been a number of threads here about that.

Or like snake-handling Christians, who know the risks but think they have superpowers that render them invincible.

ACK! Now I can't stop thinking about those disgusting sodas.

And really, it shows how ignorance has been embraced by some that they are drinking raw milk. Years ago one of my cousins thought that was a peachy idea. That it would be healthy. Well, they damn near killed one of their kids. He was out of school for MONTHS. They all got sick but he got the worst of it. He was a strong, healthy 6' plus teen at the time and it put him down flat.

Willful ignorance is a dangerous thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2023 01:18AM by Susan I/S.

I love raw milk, which is easy to get in France and quite safe because the herds from which it comes are CONSTANTLY tested.

However, I also remember my wife's uncle, a veterinary professor, telling me how horrible the disease brucellosis is in humans, so I would always check its provenance beforehand.

Please remember that testing is retrospective and can’t guarantee the safety of any single container of raw milk.

They just don't understand how much work it takes to provide them with a carefree lifestyle.

Yes, generally a person in America could do just fine with raw milk- but that's only because modern science has given us a field in which any bacterial populations are incredibly isolated, making it highly unlikely to be transmitted.

And no, God did not intend for us to drink unpasteurized cow's milk. He did not intend for us to drink any permutation of cow's milk. He intended for us to drink people milk and cows to drink cow's milk. It's when we decided to break the chain that problems arose. And humanity has done a marvelous job of making such disruptions incredibly safe and nutritious. IMO.

While the overall risk might be low, the resulting disease can be very severe, as another poster mentioned.

And these bacteria are not ‘incredibly isolated’ they’re very common in the digestive tracts of cows, and the dairy environment.

I’m retired from a career in public health, and there are 3 foods I won’t eat: raw sprouts, raw oysters, and raw milk.

I love living dangerously.

Well, IDK... I started drinking raw cows milk in 2007, left the Church in 08, and Xianity entirely in about 2020. I've always had a bit of a prepper streak from my Mormon upbringing though. I keep kinder goats for their milk. Great stuff, tastes just like high quality cows milk. I drink it raw and make cheese, kefir, and caramels from it. My raw milk over the years either came from California dairies authorized to sell it, a Mennonite farm in VA that tested regularly, and my own goats. I've never been sick from drinking the stuff. For goats especially, good dairy management practices go a long way to prevent milk contamination. Goats are a cleaner catch :) They are also more environmentally friendly to get milk from than cattle. I wish people weren't so biased against them for perceived taste because not all goat breeds have goat-y milk.

There was a dairy in Brigham City (for anyone from Brigham)--well North of Brigham City owned by some Reeders. A few of my mom's friends had a little carpool or whatever it is and they'd take turns picking up the milk for each other. It came in glass bottles and they were "fun" to clean.

My mom would pour off the cream at the top. Many of my siblings drank a lot of milk, mostly when eating tons of cereal. My little brothers. (Actually, my little sister, my brothers, and our neighbor kids had cereal eating contests.)

I didn't drink much milk. Only did while pregnant.

None of us got sick from it. At least that we know of. We're all still alive somehow. We've had some really traumatic things happen to some of us that were big medical issues, but not that were tied to that milk.

Not that I'm saying everyone should go drink it as I don't think they should. But we survived. Oh my! Thinking about what we survived!!!!

We had cows when I was a child. I grew up drinking raw milk. In fact I often stuck my dirty fingers in to the top of a massive tank of raw milk and then licked my fingers. I'm pretty sure I violated multiple health regulations as a child. But I craved it.

Decades later, I rarely get sick.

I'll take raw milk over processed food any day.

1) There are people, including members of my own family, who are very allergic to milk. My younger brother and I don't drink it anymore (it gave me diarrhea); my 12-year-old nephew will only drink lactaid milk because of the alergic reactions he's had to whole milk; and my late grandfather (my father's stepfather) would only drink powdered milk because of the alergic reactions it caused him.

2) Just because there is a heightened risk of disease from drinking unpasteurized milk versus pasteurized milk (and that risk certainly does exist) does not mean that each and every time you drink raw milk you are going to get sick. It is precisely because you don't become ill every time you drink raw unpasterurized milk that you begin to think that the scientific studies and warnings on the subject are nuts. It is usually only after it affects that you begin to have second thoughts on your drinking habits.

Most adults in most of the world have a greater or lesser intolerance for digesting milk. NW Europeans developed a genetic mutation so that they could digest milk as adults. This had survival value because of the cold winters and lack of other foods. Milk helped them survive the winters.

So, NW Europeans, which is mostly what Mormons are descended from, EOD excepted, drink a lot of milk, usually with little problem. The rest of the world finds that kind of weird.

Being of NW European stock on my father's side, I love milk. I drink it all the time. My mom's side consisted of Eastern European farmers, and my grandmother loved all things dairy. She always insisted on real butter. She was energetic into old age, and lived to be 90. So I follow her example. I figure it's in the genes. :)

ETA: I just enjoyed some fresh sourdough bread with sweet butter for a snack. Yum!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2023 06:11PM by summer.

The ethnic groups that can digest milk products as adults are almost without exception those whose ancestors were pastoralists. The genetic mutation occurs at more or less predictable frequencies in all populations and is selectively conserved in populations that have cattle.

So areas settled by Indo-Europeans, also nomadic tribes in North Africa, can digest milk and its derivatives whereas East Asians, for example, generally cannot.

Correct. I was too restrictive in specifying NW Europeans. NW Eurasians would have been closer.

And next time y'all go to a Chinese restaurant, notice how many dairy dishes are on the menu. Probably zero. Or the milk is fermented in some fashion to pre-digest the lactose (Tibet, Mongolia)

Tibetans make gorgeous wooden chests, carved ornately and painted in reds and golds and browns. There are places in Central and Southeast Asia where you can buy used ones, some dating back a hundred years.

The problem is that those chests were used to store cheese made from Yak's milk that smells very, very pungent. I've heard that you can buy ones that have been deodorized, but I can't imagine how you would do that at home.

A pity. . .

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=tibetan+wooden+chest&iax=images&ia=images

And the cheese is sometimes stored for 15-20 years. . .

That reminds me. I probably should check the cheese in my fridge. It might rival that yak stuff in age.

The idea is to store the cheese until it walks out of the fridge on its own. :O)

When my kid returns from college, all of the walking cheeses get tossed out and there's nothing left for me to eat.

Blindguy, what you say makes perfect sense.

It's the crazy religious anti-science nonsense that I'm trying to get at — the unholy union between religion, conspiracy theories, cult panic, fear and hate.

Take this little gem for example:

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/taylor-swift-travis-kelce-hung-b2421182.html

In a bizarre interview, Christian commentator Morgan Ariel said Taylor Swift and Kansas City Chiefs player Travis Kelce should be “hung”.

Ms Ariel, who describes herself as a “Christian activist”, also told Rumble streaming host Stew Peters on Wednesday that Ms Swift and Mr Kelce should be “publicly prosecuted” and alleged the pair are using their relationship as a strategy to push vaccines.

“I think people deserve to be publicly prosecuted and hung,” she told Mr Peters, an alt-right conspiracy theorist known for his extreme anti-vax positions.

A clip of the interview was posted on X, formerly known as Twitter, but it has since then been removed.

“If she’s dating some high-end, you know, football player that is pushing the vaccine, then that’s going to raise the probability that they’ll go out and get it,” Ms Ariel said.

**********************

So apparently, in today's bizarro world, science, vaccines, climate change, rejection of racism and acceptance of LGBTQIA+, are all part of some "plot" or against religion or both.

How did we get into this mess?


I'm reminded of another shaman — not Joseph Smith, but a Native Amercan named Wodziwob.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wodziwob

In 1869, when living in the Walker Lake Valley of Nevada, Wodziwob had a series of visions while on a mountain.

The first vision proclaimed that "within a few moons there was to be a great upheaval or earthquake... [during which] the improvements of the whites-all their houses, their goods, stores, etc.-would remain, but the whites would be swallowed up, while the Indians would be saved and permitted to enjoy the earth and all the fullness thereof, including anything left by the wicked whites".[1] The prediction of this selective earthquake was met with skepticism.[by whom?]

After a second trip to the mountain, Wodziwob received a new prophecy that stated that all peoples would be swallowed by the earthquakes, and after a few days the Native Americans would return to the world, now a paradise, while the whites would be destroyed.[2] As the time period for the predicted earthquakes began to pass, many became disenchanted with Wodziwob's prophecies.

This prompted him to make a third trip to the mountain, where it was revealed to him that those "who believed in the prophecy would be resurrected and be happy, but those who did not believe in it would stay in the ground and be damned forever with the whites".[3] An additional prophecy stating that a train carrying the dead would come from the east within four years is also attributed to Wodziwob (although this may have been a later addition by his disciple, Weneyuga).[4] By the time of Wodziwob's death around 1872, he had apparently removed the destruction of whites from his prophecy, replacing it with the idea that all were to be granted eternal life with no racial distinction being made.[5]

**********************

Things change. People change. Societies change. Fear makes people do bad or crazy things.

You either find a way to adapt, or become trapped in a web of fear, conspiracy theories, hatred, and lies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2023 05:37AM by anybody.