From Rusty's conference talk --

"As you think Celestial, you will view trials and opposition in a new light. When someone you love attacks truth, think Celestial and don't question your testimony. The Apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There is no end to the adversary's deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust—from prophets, seers, and revelators—and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost, who will show unto you the things you should do."

Rusty is cultivating an "us vs.them" mentality.

Pray, pay and obey! That’s the message of every general conference.

Pray, pay and obey! That’s the message of every general conference.

In other words, never listen to anybody who doesn't agree with you... That's rather frightening.

That passage sounds quite defensive to me, almost panicky.

Oh they are worried. They know if they lose their control over Salt Lake there is nowhere else to go. One apostle told a mission president Salt Lake is the Alamo and they need to gain members in the Hispanic community. It’s not going well.

Credulity equals competence. Got it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2023 06:00AM by bradley.

Funny, since Rusty himself is all too willing to take advice off people who do not believe and want to shut down his church(es).

This is the green light. Are you paying attention TBM'S?!! The barrell is now full of fish.

Want to run your scam? Financial? Real estate? MLM?

The sky is now the limit. The sheep have been told to only trust "Members".

As long as you pay tithing on your earnings you can't get into trouble. So scam on. And dont forget. Pay that tithing.

Oh yeah. And the planet is flat. Nasa is not run buy Mormons so facts have no validity when it comes to science.

"There is no end to the adversary's deceptions"

The "adversary's deceptions" are the adversary of deceptions.

So non-Mormon therapists are now officially declared as Satanic. What could possibly go wrong?????

"Facts? You don't need no stinking facts! We'll tell you what to think and believe."

They are the scientific experts. Their science involving imaginary friends and warm fuzzy feelings. Why would you need to check the facts?

Sure Russ---you have people like Jodi Hildebrandt out there "helping people" regain their lives and members taking counsel from. Members are being hurt by the church not helped.
Loved ones should never take counsel from delusional people. How much money did you pay Jodi?

That kind of comment can indirectly discredit BYU from being considered a legitimate science institution.

Don't read things that are not faith promoting. Don't listen to people who don't believe. Put your head in the sand.

I guess they aren't going with "truth can withstand scrutiny" anymore? That's because truth often is the reason people do not believe.

Not that it was a good idea before, but you certainly shouldn't engage with TBMs now regarding "confronting" them with the truth of the church's history. They have been inoculated against listening to reason, even from ones they love, by the prophet. Nothing you say that directly contradicts the church and its doctrines will make any difference to the true believers.

Not all truth (facts) are useful.

This follows the idea that ChurchCo & company are the final arbiter of truths in the universe; since they only speak in perspectives of experience, there are few if any 'true facts'.

D.O. McKay said as much in when he published "Absolute Truths" many years past.

LDS GAs speak in terms of absolutes when preaching (Black & White, Right/Wrong, etc.) even in terms of earrings, ugly knees, WoW, etc.

but fewer people ascribe to that scenario recently.

When ChurchCo leaders make a mistake, the others ignore, excuse, or dodge responsibility.

A Mormon child is taught to bear their testimony starting in primary when they give their first talk, with their teacher whispering in their ear everything they're supposed to say, including, "I know the church is true." By the time the child reaches adulthood they've repeated their "testimony" so many times it just becomes something they say without thinking about it.

When they're older and hopefully develop critical thinking skills, they start to think about what "I know the church is true" actually means. No worries! Their leaders know just what to tell them. It's almost like they're whispering in their ear: "Doubt your doubts!" "Think celestial!"

Since when is a testimony's truthfulness based on not questioning or analyzing it? Mormon leaders counsel not to question, or now, just to "think Celestial!" Think about your celestial mansion. Don't listen to non-believers. I guess it's the only way to hold on to a fake testimony.

It's a massively selfish position.

This type of rhetoric can be particularly damaging to mixed faith marriages. The one person who you're suppose to be able to talk to is being told to see you as someone who is controlled by the adversary. It limits conversation, understanding and empathy. It's a reminder to TBMs that the church is always more important than people or any relationship that they have.

I left the church almost a decade ago. I have a TBM husband who still refuses to hear much of why I left the church. I can count the conversations that we've had about the church and my loss of testimony on one hand. It is a huge sticking point in our relationship. I don't care that my husband doesn't believe like I do, it's that he doesn't even have a desire to see things from my perspective. Nelson would be proud.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2023 06:36PM by want2bx.

want2bx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This type of rhetoric can be particularly damaging
> to mixed faith marriages. The one person who
> you're suppose to be able to talk to is being told
> to see you as someone who is controlled by the
> adversary. It limits conversation, understanding
> and empathy. It's a reminder to TBMs that the
> church is always more important than people or any
> relationship that they have.
>
> I left the church almost a decade ago. I have a
> TBM husband who still refuses to hear much of why
> I left the church. I can count the conversations
> that we've had about the church and my loss of
> testimony on one hand. It is a huge sticking point
> in our relationship. I don't care that my husband
> doesn't believe like I do, it's that he doesn't
> even have a desire to see things from my
> perspective. Nelson would be proud.


this situation is Greatly Magnified by the 'be ye therefore perfect' culture / mandate that MOs are indoctrinated - trained to attain, I don't believe they've ever walked that back at least officially.

One problem with Russ’ advice: “prophets, seers, and revelators” often contradict…prophets, seers, and revelators.

CrispingPin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One problem with Russ’ advice: “prophets,
> seers, and revelators” often
> contradict…prophets, seers, and revelators.

That's not contradiction, it's ongoing revelation.

Ugh.

Church News headline:

"President Nelson Issues Conference Invitation to ‘Think Celestial,’ ‘Put Jesus Christ First’"

I'm thinking celestial at this very moment. Celestial Tea, that is.

https://celestialseasonings.ca/en/


If Delderfield is correct and God is an Englishman, he definitely enjoys a cuppa.

With the English blood in my veins what was I thinking joining any group that banishes tea.

That alone should have sent me running for the hills when my Mormon friend asked wanna come to church with me?

It's one yes that for sure I'd like to take back. My Mormon interlude did nothing to improve my life.

Except, of course, sending me screaming onto the RfM site to figure out what the hell was THAT?!!?

Please excuse me while I go and boil the kettle...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2023 08:14PM by Nightingale.

It will be an incredibly cold day in Hell (and I don’t mean MI or Norway) when I give up tea.

The Holy Nelson has spoken and the debate is over. I've got to be extra careful to make sure that I don't take any counsel from any exmos. It's us apologists who need to go giving counsels to the exmos. And the first step on this is to be honest and tell the truth :) That's just what true Churches do :)

Sometimes I get lonely here on RfM as the solo Apologist. If another one comes a long I'll try to make them feel sooo welcome as we rush to demonstrate how truthful our Church is :)

Shut up, you are embarrassing us. People will think we're a bunch of crazy quacks if you keep this up. Then they'll never obey Nelson and get themselves assimilated. You need to stop all this talk about true Churches telling the truth. Why don't you just show these exmos some nice feel good movie from the Church. And then when they're feeling fuzzy you get them to commit to getting assimmilated.

But ... oops ... I almost forgot to think like the Correlation program taught me to think. I had a question, but now remember to shun that question and focus on obeying.

Alright all you exmos - let's watch a feel good movie and then we'll talk about getting you assimilated.

If a church told the truth, they wouldn’t be a church.

I don't take council from TBMs. Their agenda is always lurking nearby.

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
---------------------------------
> I don't take counsel from TBMs.
> Their agenda is always lurking
> nearby.


Minor quibble:  I would say that their agenda is always hulking nearby...  Ready to transform if you irritate them enough.

Lethbridge Rebate how do you like your new temple in your city.

My girlfriend and I drove past the spot where it's to be built. Gonna go to the nearby sports pub for a pint or 2 on the day it's dedicated...if I'm still alive. No shovels in the ground yet.

And I enjoy irritating them!

Never take counsel from those who believe in singing the praises of a serial rapist.

Never take counsel about Santa from those who do not believe in flying reindeer.

anything different.

By saying that, they might as well announce with blinking lights:

Warning! People who don't believe know things we don't want you to know!

Never seek information about a vehicle you are thinking of buying except from the person trying to sell it.

What they are doing is setting up marriages for failure, maybe, in fact, deliberately. Get the believing spouse away from the non-believing, and all that. When I left, the bishop did not interfere. Now, these many years later, goes to church enough for three adults. At any rate, driving wedges is sorta their thing, innit?

Remember when they used to teach basically not to be afraid of hearing the truth from any source, since all the truth will support the church?
Well, apparently they are finding out a lot of truth does NOT support the church, so they are pushing wearing blinders harder.

They want you to stay away from things that are not faith promoting. It's the church's version of "alternate facts" and controlled information.

The more lds leaders say/write/publish, the more desperation I sense...

Is a lower-echelon bureaucrat tasked with helping Russ write his speeches?

(They certainly don't sound like conventional sermons!)

They're only banal pulp, self-serving crap-ola IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2023 02:49PM by GNPE.