He’s also my wife’s OB/Gyn who delivered 3/4 of our kids. I asked him what he considered to be ‘Anti-Mormon Literature?’
He said,”Anything that doesn’t agree with official church doctrine or history.”
I said,” Like the first version of the first vision? The only one written in Joseph’s own hand?”
He said,”Well they’re all substantially the same.”
I shook my head nope
He said,”They’re not?”
I said,”No. they’re not. The first version Joseph only mentions ‘the Lord’ singular.. it wasn’t until 18yrs after the fact, under great duress in jail, after all the first witnesses left the church or were excommunicated, that he mentions God and Jesus visiting him, adding legitimacy to his claim.”
“Well, I didn’t come here to get into a contentious argument over history!”
“Sounds like you need to read more than just the ‘official version’ of history. Because they don’t tell the whole truth.

Well said cat. Hope you don't mind me calling you cat for short from now on.

Thanks, nope, don’t mind Cat, even though that’s my X’s name.

It's kind of uncomfortable IMO that she is OK going to this guy from church for her GYN stuff and you want to chat with him about his church. That's all I'll say or I'll get zapped.

It's weird that someone with his education isn't remotely aware of first vision differences and prepared to explain why.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's kind of uncomfortable IMO that she is OK
> going to this guy from church for her GYN stuff
> and you want to chat with him about his church.
> That's all I'll say or I'll get zapped.
>
> It's weird that someone with his education isn't
> remotely aware of first vision differences and
> prepared to explain why.

He’s the same OB/Gyn who ‘inspected’ my fiancé and assured me she was a virgin before I married her.

I didn’t ask.

She was sitting next to me, with a big smile on her face, like see, I’m Prime Meat!

when he announced this.

That shoulda been my first clue but I just thought, damn, that’d be a first!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2023 10:43PM by schrodingerscat.

Yikes. That's disgusting. I can't believe your wife is OK with that.

It's kind of cringe-weird that you are OK chit chatting with him after he "examined" your wife for virginity. He probably smirks to himself every time he sees you, knowing exactly what you are boinking.

I agree it’s weird AF, but anybody who is Mormon and lives in Tacoma, WA all went to this same OB/Gyn, who is a former Football player for Westpoint. An officer and a gentleman with huge hands.

>>former Football player for Westpoint

That sounds even worse. Out of all the GYN men I have known in my life (many, mostly from work) I've decided there are two kinds of male doctors who want to go into OBGYN. One type is the "miracle of life" naïve nerd, and the other kind is someone who likes the show. Most women have no clue how men think (visual, variety, etc.) when it comes to sexuality, IMO.

I'd bring out my tablet and start reading the Gospel Topics Essays one by one and point out after each one, "You know, funny thing is, THIS was Anti-Mormon Literature when I was younger!" And I'd finish by wondering aloud, "what will we be expected to accept next that is currently Anti-Mormon Literature? I can't wait for the next revelation that will test us all old timers!"



*The fact that I am in my mid thirties would be the joke, obviously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2023 11:39AM by blackcoatsdaughter.

"He’s also my wife’s OB/Gyn"

Joseph would love that job.

It’s easier to con someone than to convince them that they have been conned. I used to think if you had real evidence the truth would win but some people are too invested in lies and love their fantasy world too much.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s easier to con someone than to convince them
> that they have been conned. I used to think if you
> had real evidence the truth would win but some
> people are too invested in lies and love their
> fantasy world too much.


It’s a lot like suspending disbelief in order to enjoy the movie. You don’t want somebody spoiling the ending for you by giving away the ending. Mormons live in this fantasy world of their own making, and when confronted with well documented historical facts, they plug their ears and start yelling “LALALALALA!” Not only do they not want to hear any facts that don’t support their beliefs, they’re hostile towards anybody who brings up those facts, they threaten them with discipline for sharing the “not very useful” truth.
This is the same prick who told me,”It’s fine if you have these doubts about the church, but if you share them with other Mormons I’ll be forced to discipline you.”
I replied,”Even my wife and kids?”
He said,”Especially your wife and kids!”
I was livid. I went home and sent him my resignation, telling him to not contact me again or I’d consider it harassment and I’d file charges against him personally, which made it awkward, since my wife and kids remained active for awhile after I resigned. And he was still their Bishop and came by to drop off cookies and chocolates every Christmas.
That and he looked at my wife’s vajayjay every year.

Is there no other OB/Gyn in the Tacoma area?

Not Mormon ones.
He has the market for MORmON women in Tacoma cornered.

Daughter was born in Tacoma about 20 years ago..kinda sounds like the OB that delivered her. The "big hands" is all I remember, lol.

I had my children with a male OB/GYN because I didn't have a CHOICE, they were all men. Thankfully some women OB's came to town but I was finished having children.

When I was active, I made sure I never had a doctor that was in my ward or stake and religion is something I never talked about to any doctor.

In today's world I would have picked a female doctor for SURE. Actually In today's world I would BE the OB/GYN. I was born too soon in Utah. I am a former RN. We had a lot of smart gals in my nursing class that could of been MD's but we put "having a family" ahead of education--- thats just the way it was. Pretty depressing, but our nursing instructors whipped us into shape.

In nursing school we were taught religion was off limits unless the patient brought it up.

....and before our psych rotation our Psych instructor let us know right off the bat that psychotic patients are
NOT possessed by demons or evil spirits. "They are sick.
and talk like that is not professional nor appropriate on the BHU or anywhere else...
.......but gosh they can say some funny stuff."

I am glad we had such "direct to the point" instructors.

There are so few female doctors as it is here in Idaho. We're not going to get any female OBYGNs soon either in today's environment. We've already had some leave. It's discouraging.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2023/10/03/new-ob-gyns-are-avoiding-abortion/

"So she set out to find those answers, reaching out to hundreds of OB-GYN residents across the country.

Of the more than 300 who responded, nearly 1-in-5 said they had altered their intended practice state following the Dobbs decision, and those who initially planned to practice in states that restricted abortion were eight times as likely to have decided to work somewhere else. Woodcock’s findings were published in the journal Obstetrics & Gynecology on Thursday.

Approximately half of residents who responded to an open-ended question about the impacts of the changing abortion landscape on their lives said they were unwilling to live in a state with restrictions, and a quarter of those applying to fellowship programs, like Woodcock’s, reported that they either ranked programs in restrictive states lower or didn’t consider them at all."

"A quarter of OB-GYN residents who were planning to practice in states labeled “restrictive” changed their minds, according to the paper."

"Dear Bishop: it sounds like you need to grow up!"

IMO.

He needs to act like a real MD or a smart woman will take his place. He should retire.

I'm trying to imagine any church I've ever experienced, questioning my reading material.

Nope. Including books critical of the church.

It's inconceivable to me as well. Growing up middle-of-the-road Catholic, the adults felt perfectly free to disagree with the pope, and to read whatever they wanted to.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's inconceivable to me as well. Growing up
> middle-of-the-road Catholic, the adults felt
> perfectly free to disagree with the pope, and to
> read whatever they wanted to.


It’s interesting that somebody like Elie Wiesel can write ‘Night’ and still be beloved by his tribe, even though he was an atheist. While far less mature religions like MORmONism, discipline people like Grant Palmer for writing well researched, true history of the church and threaten people like me with excommunication if I breath a word of what I read to any of my children, whom he delivered, or wife, whose black void he peers into every 6mo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2023 08:37PM by schrodingerscat.

"Tribe?"

Some of us have tribes ... and tribal dances!

Although I drew the line at tribal tattoos and tribal taxes.

We all belong to tribes. Usually it’s the one we were born into.

I would argue about the definition and usage of "tribe," but we all know that you use words to mean whatever you want at any point in time without regard to what they mean.

"No one knows what you mean when no one knows who you are."

              --Judic West, Currently out on bail
                 and innocent until proven guilty

"It’s interesting that somebody like Elie Wiesel can write ‘Night’ and still be beloved by his tribe, even though he was an atheist."

COMMENT:

Consider the following quote:

"Some of the men spoke of God: His mysterious ways, the sins of the Jewish people, and the redemption to come. As for me, I had ceased to pray. I concurred with Job! I was not denying His existence, but I doubted His absolute justice."

Elie Wiesel, from *Night*

Wiesel's views about 'God' are complex and philosophical. He is beloved not only by the Jewish people generally, but all who have tried -- at one time or another -- to reconcile the value of a commitment to God in the context of God's seeming moral indifference.
_____________________________________________

"While far less mature religions like MORmONism, discipline people like Grant Palmer for writing well researched, true history of the church and threaten people like me with excommunication if I breath a word of what I read to any of my children, whom he delivered, or wife, whose black void he peers into every 6mo."

COMMENT: Setting aside your personal experiences, this is not a fair comparison. Elie Wiesel was not challenging the institutional and foundational structure of Judaism. Palmer's book -- notwithstanding his statements to the contrary -- amounted to a declaration that Mormonism was false. Although, we here on RfM have no problem with that, we ought to be able to understand why that would bring an institutional reaction of intolerance. After all, if you were within the leadership of the ACLU, you might want to expel a member who publicly proclaimed that civil rights should be denied to Blacks. Moreover, you might want to discourage people from reading or considering such views. In short, you cannot expect any institution having strong ideological or religious values (right or wrong) of any sort to embrace those within its ranks who seek to undermine the very ideology the institution espouses.

Moreover, since you mention "tribe" (whatever that is supposed to mean) let's not forget Jewish intolerance to both Christians and Muslims when they are the dominant culture.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/jews-spitting-on-the-ground-beside-christian-pilgrims-in-the-holy-land-sparks-outrage/ar-AA1hE2OS

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's inconceivable to me as well. Growing up
> middle-of-the-road Catholic, the adults felt
> perfectly free to disagree with the pope, and to
> read whatever they wanted to.

I also had that same experience growing up Catholic at a Jesuit high school. That said, I do recall that the eastern Orthodox church requested that members neither read nor watch the movie, "The Last Temptation Of Christ," when they were separately released. And I do know that the Roman Catholic church and its schools *did* work to keep people from reading some books during the 19th century.