The LDS Church has had a system of leadership that has avoided power struggles and kept the church from breaking up. The problem with a seniority rules system is the leaders are all in the age group where half the population are not mentally with it.

For entertainment I was watching an episode of Midnight Mormons where all the show’s participants were making fun of the old church leaders and how clueless they were on what modern dating is like. Even the members see the problem. One guest on Mormon Stories said the church needs younger people running it.

This really could be a big part why the church looks so incompetent. The massive temple building is not going to have a positive affect on the church. General Conference is full of people who obviously life in a bubble. It’s a circle jerk of clueless people.

The church is good at one thing. Money management and investing. I wish our government had surpluses the church has. As a church it’s a joke. It’s doing some dumb shit.

And all the people under 85 are keeping them in power. So who's really winning?

Judge the individual and merits. There is a lot of ageism out there lately which isn't fair to people like Mick Jagger!
I could make a case that a high number of younger people are dumb and should not be in leadership positions either. Whoever does the job well should be rewarded for that alone.

That said...

Unfortunately, the church does not operate using merits or individual acuity. They mostly operate on longevity. Whoever outlives the others is on the path to being on top of the Mormon leadership pile.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Unfortunately, the church does
> not operate using merits or
> individual acuity.  They mostly
> operate on longevity.  Whoever
> outlives the others is on the
> path to being on top of the Mormon
> leadership pile.

I have no proof, but I have my faith in human nature, in my belief that it takes a rare individual to promote a person to whom the promoter is inferior.

If this is the case, then over time, the caliber of an institution will fall as successive leadership iterations decline in ability.

Of course, if you can convince me that the qualities and abilities of the 12 afossils continue to increase over time, I'll go back to my chalk-on-slate drawing board...

Good point. The younger generations are getting fatter. They will have heart disease and diabetes and probably not make it to old age.

I looked up about 5 surveys and am finding an average of 30% over 85 have some form of dementia possibly, much of it minor.

My own survey is I see about half of those under forty have no gumption. 50% think they are special although they offer no proof of accomplishments. 50% want to be influencers which means get paid a lot for TikToking or sitting in Starbucks on a computer when you aren't picking up dry-cleaning.

The percentage of those over 80 who are still exceptional is damn impressive, even if, the G.A.s aren't. I don't see that much dementia though with the Mormon gerontocract--just a lot of the "decency resistant syndrome".

Just a serious reflection of how to bring change within the church. It's not like you can vote on church policy. You can leave, but then any efforts to suggest the church needs to change its ways are met with scoff and ridicule. And did you catch Nelson's latest message about taking counsel from sources outside of the church?

If you stay in the church and have an opportunity to serve in a leadership, the church doesn't want your ideas on how to better the calling, serving others or be efficient. The church prepares a handbook for every calling. The church doesn't want any suggestions and they don't like or appreciate members who "think outside of the box."

My dad never got it. He grew weary attending wasteful and unproductive EQ leadership meetings in discussing the ward's hometeaching problem. The stake wanted 50% or better for each month and the ward was batting around 20%. My dad, as EQ secretary, had ideas and he freely shared them. All of his ideas involved the EQ presidency targeting the low performers and offering to assist or go with them on HT visits.

And what was the reaction? -Umm no. Brother Goop you need to understand that these quorum members are priesthood holders. They know what they're supposed to do.

Nothing changed and eventually, the church did away with the HT program. Ask a member today and the church HAS always been ministering to its members. Lol

Does the church leadership truly listen to members?

Outliers are rejected and suppressed by LDS Corp. I had a similar experience in both EQ and HP.

In EQ our home teaching was 5%, and while the lecture was being given I interrupted and applied general management ideas that would bolster the numbers. "I was then asked to leave the meeting, because I was detracting from the Spirit that apparently I was not feeling."

In HP I suggested that service projects are completed by people willing to perform the task, instead of the lectures given about our duty to sacrifice our time. I was then told I had an attitude problem.

But you got to give them credit for one thing, they are consistent. Before my final departure, I was visited by my Home Teachers perhaps twice over two decades, and I rarely ever saw a service project started and completed by the HP group.

My TBM dad had dementia. Died at 80 or 81 in 2005. There were a couple nice things about it.

1. He went back to being more child like, very agreeable, content with just watching a TV show, didn't get bothered by things, followed instructions when asked, etc. He was nice to be around.

2. He completely forgot about church. There would be folks from the ward offering to pick him up and return him, so my mom would have to explain that he didn't remember anyone from church and wouldn't remember anything that happened if he went. His church days were over. Losing memory of the church and its obligations made it much easier to be around him.

Hopefully, point #2 may give some pensioned PIMOs (easy to mistype PIMPs!) an option on how to get out of attending church!

I think that any organization benefits by having leadership with a variety of ages. The older people have perspective and often, wisdom, and the younger people are more in step with modern times, and are not opposed to trying new ideas. The Mormon church rewards age and conformity at the expense of being in step with the modern world. Hence, the need for surveys to try to get a grip on a new generation that they don't understand.

Perhaps they should have an upper retirement age for the Q15 -- i.e., when you are 85 or 90, you are done. I think that once you have reached a certain age, you have done enough. Time to enjoy your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. I couldn't imagine still working when I am that old.

I disagree, summer. The Q15 and their factotums are constantly demanding that normal members surrender their golden age and go on missions. They deserve no time with their families and hobbies but should live by their own principles.

Goose, take a look at that gander.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2023 07:12PM by Lot's Wife.

Your observation is correct.

Wife's parents planned on serving several missions. But after they came home from the first, I noticed something that concerned me with the FIL. So I pulled my wife's mother aside and told her to get him into the doctor as of yesterday.

MIL called me two days later and said he was declining into an advanced stage of dementia. Within 6 months he was in long term care, and passed away less than 2 years after diagnosis.

They never got to travel or anything that matters, instead they spent two years being told what to do, and never spent any real time with kids and grand kids.

More than 50% obtain some other type of a possibly embarrassing problem over 85, but it Depends.

That's 10 years away for me. Hope it gives me a pass.

I'm only 62, but There's one thing I can never remember......ahhhhh.....ummmmmmm....hmmmmmm....uuuuuuh

Glad I'm not 85 yet. Does the 50-50 percent chance it happen the instant you resach 85? What I have to look firward to lol.

Memory isn't so great, but my therapist and doctor believe it is stress and I agree. I can find the words within seconds. I've always had a good memory and my work is fine, and I do medical records typing, so I have to be accurate.

I'm not interested in living to 80. My parents both died at 76 and so I'm banking on that. Just because I'm planning on it, it won't happen that way. I do have a lot of aunts and uncles who lived into their 80s and 2 of my grandparents did. My parents were never in a nursing home longer than a few days. My dad never was. They both had a lot of health problems like Parkinson's and rheumatoid arthritis, prostate cancer. But they were still driving up to the day they died. They died quick and with nobody around, which is probably good because of my disabled younger brother. I want to die like they did.

No dementia of any kind on either side of the family.

I don't have dementia in either of my family lines, either. My aunt who was my dad's half-sister was a little forgetful in her old age, but that's about it.

I think I'll likely go to my mid-80s. My mom (with a lot of bad health habits) was about 80, and her mom was about 90. So I think I'll probably split the difference. But you never know.

Maybe they need to change the slogan to "Remember Celestial?"