In regular Christianity, especially the Catholic Church, marriage is not considered necessary for salvation. It is often considered an obstacle for salvation. They say a married man tries to please his wife, while a single man tries to please God. Monks and nuns are highly respected, and they hold a very high place among Catholics. Some people would say they are even holier than married folks. The Pope is celibate. I think the cardinals are as well, as are many other Catholic officials.

Many Christians regard Jesus as a being that does not have the same sexual makeup as humans do. They think that Jesus has "overcome" the lusts of the flesh, or never had those lusts to begin with. To be a perfect being like Jesus or God, you need to transcend sexuality, and what Jesus and God have is superior to and more satisfying than anything that earthly sexuality or marriage could possibly provide. When you read the Bible, it is hard to view Jesus as a married man. People have speculated that he was married to certain women, but that is just speculation.

Paul had a dim view of sexuality. He said that men should not marry unless they unable to contain their desires. Paul said that he who marries does well, but that he who does not marry does better.

Ask a normal Christian to think of a spiritual person, and chances are he will think of a monk or a nun.

Even Christian churches that celebrate marriage do not make it a requirement for salvation. It can help people attain salvation, but it is not NECESSARY for salvation.

Mormonism is very, very radical in this regard. It is more radical than most people realize.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2023 09:38PM by behindcurtain.

> They say a married man tries
> to please his wife, while a
> single man tries to please God.


Yes, ghawd is a dick!

Okay, so what exactly is your point?

Catholic priests were in the beginning married to their wives, and not allowed to marry anymore only after the Church wealth and art and property was subjected to developing inheritance laws.

Ha ha, clergy might have a wayward child occasionally but not on paper.

Don't get me started on recruiting only the unmarried "deviants" of society for all leadership positions as this newer plan began to develop.

One crazy world.

Heterodox "christianity" would be an apt description.

Yes. As others have pointed out, so what?

"Christian" does not mean "only acceptable way of life".

Mormonism teaches that its modalities were direct instructions from Jesus for the modern audience. Yes, Jesus/Paul/whoever said other things two thousand years ago. That was then. This is now. The whole point of Mormonism is to give us the full picture of what Jesus/God has in mind. One of the features of Mormonism nowadays is that they seem to have renounced that part in their headlong tumble to be adored by American evangelicals. Somewhere along the way they will wake up and realize that they will never be allowed at the cool kids' lunch table. Maybe then they will embrace the ideas that the church was invented for.IMO.

After reading this thread, I can't say standard Christian thought on marriage and sex sounds any better. Paul is not exactly anyone I would want advice from about anything.

"Paul is not exactly anyone I would want advice from about anything."

You can say that again. And again. Hahahaha ha.

Of course look at some of the sources people are getting their advice from nowadays. Not sure any progress has been made.

Your interpretation of Roman Catholicism is correct that marriage is considered second best. In Catholic thought, it is the superior option to take holy orders, either as a priest, a monk, or a nun. But not everyone is cut out for that (and it could be argued that many professed religious are not cut out for that,) so marriage is the next best option. All professed religious are expected to be celibate.

Catholics believe in one heaven, so it doesn't matter if you are married or celibate during your lifetime.

The RC church already does allow married priests if they are converting from another Christian tradition. If the priest converts to Catholicism, and his wife dies, he may not marry again. For this reason, I could see the RC church at some point in the future allowing for all priests to be married. I think the church will consider allowing this long before female priests are considered.

I agree that Mormon theology is quite different, where being married is necessary for exaltation. The Mormon church does have an out in that it allows for the possibility of marriage after death.

Behindcurtain wrote in part:

"Ask a normal Christian to think of a spiritual person, and chances are he will think of a monk or a nun."

While that may be true for Catholics (and, as a former Catholic, I can tell you that it is), I've yet to see anything from Protestants--from Lutheran to white evangelical--that suggests that Catholic priests and nuns are held in the same high degree as Catholics hold them. Put another way, I think you are giving the Roman Catholic church too much credit for how Christianity is practiced in the United States. Keep in mind that during much of the 1800s, U.S. protestants looked down upon Catholics and some legally tried to prevent the Catholics from opening their own religious schools in the country.

I know that Lutherans and Anglicans have nuns as well, but they are not as common as Catholic nuns. Since these two traditions allow for married priests, I am not sure if celibacy is regarded as a higher state for them.

There have been many laws against Catholicism in the history of the U.S. Maryland was originally a sanctuary for Catholics in colonial times. In terms of marriage, did I miss a mention that RC nuns are considered "Brides of Christ" and part of their final vow taking involves wearing a wedding dress and prostrating themselves before the cross? I also think that fewer and fewer Catholics hold nuns and priests in high esteem. But there is a trend toward allowing marriage in the priesthood ( especially in light of the scandals) and will come well before women are allowed to be priests - if ever.

Mormons believe in the Big Bang theory. We came from God banging all his goddess wives. The whole universe expands when we get to bang goddesses or are goddesses being banged.

There should be a hymn called Bang Bang.

...but there was a popular song with that title from 1966 sung by Cher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfyBHZc9rK4

Given the song's lyrics, it will never become a hymn for any religion, but I think it rather aptly describes most marriages of the time, both in- and outside of Mormonism. Let's hear it for the patriarchy! (Not!)

Why wouldn't it be different?

Would you expect Islamic beliefs about marriage to be the same as Christian?

The Mormon church is a Christian church. Under Nelson's leadership, the church has tried to more strongly align itself with mainstream Christianity. That tends to make the differences more glaring.

"The Mormon church is a Christian church."

Of course it isn't.

That's why expecting Mormon beliefs about marriage to be the same as Christian is, well, not a realistic expectation.

"Under Nelson's leadership, the church has tried to more strongly align itself with mainstream Christianity"

Nelson has pushed the myth that his church is just another Christian denomination.

"That tends to make the differences more glaring."

The differences are glaring because the facts don't square with Nelson's PR effort. Some things are hard to gloss over.

Nelson, like Russell and Ballard before him, is trying his best to sell it all the same.

At least we are reassured that mormonism is as true as any other church in/on this Earth!  So mormons can hold their head as high as any other religionist.

Holding one's head high is an important part of a good golf swing!

Oh better than that:

“the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.” D&C 1:30

was the clear doctrine for most of the church's history. Everyone else is wrong.

But it doesn't fit well with the myth of just another Christian denomination: we're right and everyone else is right too.

More new revelation, no doubt.

<gag>



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2023 09:48PM by anybody.

I would have preferred to grow up not in mormonism but maybe another religion, but I'd prefer to skip them all.

My mormon marriage definitely differed radically from standard Christian thought.

I'd definitely prefer to have been raised with no religion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2023 08:54PM by cl2.

C12, just stopping by.

I basically WAS raised without religion. In childhood, my best friends were three Catholic sisters who lived up the street. We played together all the time. They all complained about how much they loathed catechism, so I had no problem about missing that.

The one thing that intrigued me was the idea of Midnight Mass at Christmas time. My mother was an absolute FIEND about early bedtimes. My friends frequently invited me to Midnight Mass over the years, but I was never allowed to go.

When I was about 12, I told my parents I wanted to be a Catholic. In unison, my parents said "NO!!" Then we started attending the local Presbyterian Church (USA, which I believe is the most liberal branch of Presbyterianism.) I found it fairly boring, developed a terrible crush on the minister's son, and refused to attend Sunday School.

After my two-decade stray into Mormonism, I reverted to Presbyterianism, but found it boring and full of cliques.

In my old age, I consider myself an inactive Presbyterian. My sweet BIC DH had no difficulty being a part-time Presbyterian. He is more extroverted than I am, and was quickly invited to join the weekly lunch get-together for retired guys.

There used to be two Sunday services at that church. I could and did attend the 11:00 AM service. However, after the young minister's wife had their second baby, he stopped offering the 11:00 service, and I left. I have never been a morning person, EVER, and after years of forced alarm-setting for school and then for work, I had enough.

So much for religion. As Pooh says, "Oh, BOTHER!"

It's nice to see you, catnip.

Hi, Catnip! Great to see you.

In Catholicism, it's perfectly okay for both kids and adults to cultivate friendships beyond the church. So it's not a surprise that those three girls befriended you. There is also no push to convert friends and neighbors.

I always wanted to go to midnight mass as well. The adults that I knew loved it. But by the time I was an adult, I no longer considered myself to be Catholic, so it was a moot point. As with any Catholic service, anyone is welcome to attend, but the church might be crowded and SRO.