Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
The L.A. Times has reported on relationships between U.S. Muslim Brotherhood organizations and the Mormon Church. The article states that the relationship between the two is particularly visible in Southern California and identifies two notable examples. The Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamic organization which took over Egypt and has said openly it wishes to take over the west.
First, according to the LA Times report:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-apr-02-me-morlims2-story.html
"The Mormon Church has become the biggest contributor to Buena Park-based Islamic Relief, touted by its administrators as the West’s largest Muslim-based charity. Relief officials say the church has donated $20 million in goods and services since the 2004 tsunami, equal to about 20% of the charity’s annual budget…Following the tsunami that devastated many Islamic communities, the Mormon church, which has a history of contributing to a wide range of charities, began working closely with Islamic Relief. Though LDS had helped Muslims before — providing 195 tons of powdered milk, hygiene kits, medical supplies and other provisions — it had never previously worked with this major Islamic agency, or on such a scale."
Islamic Relief in Buena Park is the U.S. office of Islamic Relief Worldwide, a charity whose headquarters and numerous branches shows links to the Muslim Brotherhood, which promotes Muslim missionary work and sponsors mass Muslim migration into the Developed World. German Muslim Brotherhood leader Ibrahim El-Zayat, for example, is a trustee of Islamic Relief Worldwide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_El-Zayat
The LA Times article also identifies a joint project between the Mormon Church and the Islamic Society of Orange County (ISOC):
"Locally, LDS helped the Islamic Society of Orange County’s Al-Rahman Mosque in Garden Grove develop its library with a $15,000 donation. ->“Their beliefs are similar to ours,”<- Robert Bremmer, a Mormon bishop, said at that facility’s open-mosque day in 2005. “They have modest dress, and so do we. They believe in all the [Old Testament] prophets, as do we.” He omitted to mention that Muslims kill people who convert to other religions including Mormomism
During Al-Rahman’s most recent open house in August, attended by many Mormon elders and dignitaries, a tribute was paid to a deceased LDS official supportive of the mosque."
The ISOC has been headed since 1981 by Muzzamil H. Siddiqi a long time leader in many U.S. Muslim Brotherhood organizations including the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) and the Fiqh Council of North America. Dr. Siddiqi was also formerly employed by the Saudi Muslim World League, another import component of the global Muslim Brotherhood network.
“A Mormon living in an Islamic society would be very comfortable,” said Steve Young, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attending the event.
The sentiment is echoed by Muslims. “When I go to a Mormon church I feel at ease,” said Haitham Bundakji, former chairman of the Islamic Society of Orange County. “When I heard the president [of LDS] speak a few years ago, if I’d closed my eyes I’d have thought he was an imam.”
Scattered throughout the Internet are numerous tracts, many by evangelical Christians, comparing the two religions in less-than-complimentary terms. “Modern Mohammedanism has its Mecca in Salt Lake,” reads one. “Clearly the Koran was Joseph Smith’s model, so closely followed as to exclude even the poor pretension of originality in his foul ‘revelations.’ ”
The effects of Muslim-Mormon interaction are showing in subtle ways too. Spending time with Mormons, Bundakji says, has inspired him to stop drinking coffee.
“I thought they had a good idea,” he says. “Now I don’t drink caffeine and I don’t have headaches anymore.”
First, according to the LA Times report:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-apr-02-me-morlims2-story.html
"The Mormon Church has become the biggest contributor to Buena Park-based Islamic Relief, touted by its administrators as the West’s largest Muslim-based charity. Relief officials say the church has donated $20 million in goods and services since the 2004 tsunami, equal to about 20% of the charity’s annual budget…Following the tsunami that devastated many Islamic communities, the Mormon church, which has a history of contributing to a wide range of charities, began working closely with Islamic Relief. Though LDS had helped Muslims before — providing 195 tons of powdered milk, hygiene kits, medical supplies and other provisions — it had never previously worked with this major Islamic agency, or on such a scale."
Islamic Relief in Buena Park is the U.S. office of Islamic Relief Worldwide, a charity whose headquarters and numerous branches shows links to the Muslim Brotherhood, which promotes Muslim missionary work and sponsors mass Muslim migration into the Developed World. German Muslim Brotherhood leader Ibrahim El-Zayat, for example, is a trustee of Islamic Relief Worldwide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_El-Zayat
The LA Times article also identifies a joint project between the Mormon Church and the Islamic Society of Orange County (ISOC):
"Locally, LDS helped the Islamic Society of Orange County’s Al-Rahman Mosque in Garden Grove develop its library with a $15,000 donation. ->“Their beliefs are similar to ours,”<- Robert Bremmer, a Mormon bishop, said at that facility’s open-mosque day in 2005. “They have modest dress, and so do we. They believe in all the [Old Testament] prophets, as do we.” He omitted to mention that Muslims kill people who convert to other religions including Mormomism
During Al-Rahman’s most recent open house in August, attended by many Mormon elders and dignitaries, a tribute was paid to a deceased LDS official supportive of the mosque."
The ISOC has been headed since 1981 by Muzzamil H. Siddiqi a long time leader in many U.S. Muslim Brotherhood organizations including the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) and the Fiqh Council of North America. Dr. Siddiqi was also formerly employed by the Saudi Muslim World League, another import component of the global Muslim Brotherhood network.
“A Mormon living in an Islamic society would be very comfortable,” said Steve Young, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attending the event.
The sentiment is echoed by Muslims. “When I go to a Mormon church I feel at ease,” said Haitham Bundakji, former chairman of the Islamic Society of Orange County. “When I heard the president [of LDS] speak a few years ago, if I’d closed my eyes I’d have thought he was an imam.”
Scattered throughout the Internet are numerous tracts, many by evangelical Christians, comparing the two religions in less-than-complimentary terms. “Modern Mohammedanism has its Mecca in Salt Lake,” reads one. “Clearly the Koran was Joseph Smith’s model, so closely followed as to exclude even the poor pretension of originality in his foul ‘revelations.’ ”
The effects of Muslim-Mormon interaction are showing in subtle ways too. Spending time with Mormons, Bundakji says, has inspired him to stop drinking coffee.
“I thought they had a good idea,” he says. “Now I don’t drink caffeine and I don’t have headaches anymore.”
Bruce wrote in part:
"The Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamic organization which took over Egypt and has said openly it wishes to take over the west."
Correction. The Muslim Brotherhood, while astrong force in Egypt. does not run the government there. In fact, the current Egyptian government headed by the military considers the group to be a terrorist organization.
"The Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamic organization which took over Egypt and has said openly it wishes to take over the west."
Correction. The Muslim Brotherhood, while astrong force in Egypt. does not run the government there. In fact, the current Egyptian government headed by the military considers the group to be a terrorist organization.
blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruce wrote in part:
>
> "The Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamic
> organization which took over Egypt and has said
> openly it wishes to take over the west."
>
> Correction. The Muslim Brotherhood, while astrong
> force in Egypt. does not run the government there.
> In fact, the current Egyptian government headed by
> the military considers the group to be a terrorist
> organization.
This is a correct statement. The Muslim Brotherhood's political wing, the FJP, took power in Egypt after the so called Arab Spring under the leadership of Morsi. The FJP was removed in a coup and banned.
The Muslim Brotherhood has been involved in attacks on Coptic Christians including burning forty churches.
This is who the LDS church is giving tithing money to:
"We believe that Zionism, the United States, and England are gangs that kill children and women and men and destroy houses and fields. .... Zionism is a gang, not a country. So we will resist them until they don't have a country."
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruce wrote in part:
>
> "The Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamic
> organization which took over Egypt and has said
> openly it wishes to take over the west."
>
> Correction. The Muslim Brotherhood, while astrong
> force in Egypt. does not run the government there.
> In fact, the current Egyptian government headed by
> the military considers the group to be a terrorist
> organization.
This is a correct statement. The Muslim Brotherhood's political wing, the FJP, took power in Egypt after the so called Arab Spring under the leadership of Morsi. The FJP was removed in a coup and banned.
The Muslim Brotherhood has been involved in attacks on Coptic Christians including burning forty churches.
This is who the LDS church is giving tithing money to:
"We believe that Zionism, the United States, and England are gangs that kill children and women and men and destroy houses and fields. .... Zionism is a gang, not a country. So we will resist them until they don't have a country."
Lot's Wife replies:
bruce, this is unpersuasive.
You tell us that the LDS church is today supporting organizations including the Muslim Brotherhood. But neither of your articles says anything like that. Your "joint project" was a $15,000 Mormon donation for a library in Orange County made over 15 years ago. Do you have anything more substantive or more recent?
Your description of Islamic Relief of Orange County is likewise dubious. You say IROC is affiliated with Islamic Relief Worldwide (ISW) but neither the US nor the Worldwide organization mentions an affiliation. You claim that they are both connected to the Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt but, again, neither article says that. Then you use as an example Muzzamil H. Siddiqi, whom you say is head of IROC, which he is not; and that he has connections to the Islamic Brotherhood, which your sources do not claim. There's lots of aspersion here, lots of conspiracy, but zero documentation.
You also allege that the people "the LDS church is giving tithing money to "believe" all sorts of things about "Zionism," etc. But who precisely are you criticizing? ISOC? ISW? The Islamic Brotherhood? They are different entities with different agenda. Are you perhaps ascribing an Islamic Brotherhood position to an unrelated charity in Orange County? And what does any of this stuff have to do with the Arab Spring from the early 2010s or with the 2013-2014 Egyptian coup? Your article is about things that happened in 2008.
We're going through one of those periods in which it's tempting to blame atrocities on innocent people. I hope that's not happening here.
bruce, this is unpersuasive.
You tell us that the LDS church is today supporting organizations including the Muslim Brotherhood. But neither of your articles says anything like that. Your "joint project" was a $15,000 Mormon donation for a library in Orange County made over 15 years ago. Do you have anything more substantive or more recent?
Your description of Islamic Relief of Orange County is likewise dubious. You say IROC is affiliated with Islamic Relief Worldwide (ISW) but neither the US nor the Worldwide organization mentions an affiliation. You claim that they are both connected to the Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt but, again, neither article says that. Then you use as an example Muzzamil H. Siddiqi, whom you say is head of IROC, which he is not; and that he has connections to the Islamic Brotherhood, which your sources do not claim. There's lots of aspersion here, lots of conspiracy, but zero documentation.
You also allege that the people "the LDS church is giving tithing money to "believe" all sorts of things about "Zionism," etc. But who precisely are you criticizing? ISOC? ISW? The Islamic Brotherhood? They are different entities with different agenda. Are you perhaps ascribing an Islamic Brotherhood position to an unrelated charity in Orange County? And what does any of this stuff have to do with the Arab Spring from the early 2010s or with the 2013-2014 Egyptian coup? Your article is about things that happened in 2008.
We're going through one of those periods in which it's tempting to blame atrocities on innocent people. I hope that's not happening here.
The bigger question is why "saints" are being bullied into giving tithing and fast donations to promote a rival religion in the first place. That is not what most members would want.
I don't remember being asked if I wanted 15K to go to a Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated library.
Muslims don't return the tolerance. Here is a press release from Malaysia, one of the saner Muslim countries.
https://news-my.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/honoring-the-sacred-and-noble-calling-of-a-mother
"6 May 2022 - Kuala Lumpur News Release
Honoring the Sacred and Noble Calling of a Mother
->(For Non-Muslim Use Only)<-
"
You can't unconvert from Islam.
I heard a story of a missionary called to Spain, he was my brother's roommate in college. They were serving in a small Spanish province on the northern edge of Africa called Ceuta. A bunch of Muslim illegals listened to them talk and they were eventually deported back home. None of them were baptized. Somehow the word got back to their families in their home country that they had been talking to Christian missionaries and they were killed. When the missionaries came back to the camp a week or two later everyone panicked and chaos ensued. The local guard caught one of the missionaries and sent him to jail over night. The other missionary made it back to the apartment and called the mission president who had to call the local authorities.
I don't remember being asked if I wanted 15K to go to a Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated library.
Muslims don't return the tolerance. Here is a press release from Malaysia, one of the saner Muslim countries.
https://news-my.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/honoring-the-sacred-and-noble-calling-of-a-mother
"6 May 2022 - Kuala Lumpur News Release
Honoring the Sacred and Noble Calling of a Mother
->(For Non-Muslim Use Only)<-
"
You can't unconvert from Islam.
I heard a story of a missionary called to Spain, he was my brother's roommate in college. They were serving in a small Spanish province on the northern edge of Africa called Ceuta. A bunch of Muslim illegals listened to them talk and they were eventually deported back home. None of them were baptized. Somehow the word got back to their families in their home country that they had been talking to Christian missionaries and they were killed. When the missionaries came back to the camp a week or two later everyone panicked and chaos ensued. The local guard caught one of the missionaries and sent him to jail over night. The other missionary made it back to the apartment and called the mission president who had to call the local authorities.
Actually, there is no "bigger question" than the dependability of claims about an ethnic or religious group. Your account was, and remains, unfounded.
-------------------------
> Muslims don't return the tolerance. Here is a
> press release from Malaysia, one of the saner
> Muslim countries.
> https://news-my.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/ho
> noring-the-sacred-and-noble-calling-of-a-mother
>
> "6 May 2022 - Kuala Lumpur News Release
> Honoring the Sacred and Noble Calling of a Mother
>
> ->(For Non-Muslim Use Only)<-
> "
Once again you proffer an article that does NOT say what you insinuate it does. There is zero in there about Muslim intolerance in Malaysia or anywhere else.
--------------
> You can't unconvert from Islam.
False.
There are some countries where that is the "law" but even there large numbers of Muslims simply stop practicing and consider it a done deal. Giving up God must surely count as "unconverting." Moreover there are many Muslim countries and communities into which, and from which, people convert all the time.
I get the sense that you do not know many Muslims. I do. Relevant in this context is what I have observed in the life of an older Iranian woman with whom I am very close. Her father was a cabinet official in the Shah's government and they had to decamp for the States forthwith when the revolution occurred. That father, who speaks fluent Russian because he went to school during the period when the USSR occupied the northern half of Iran before WWII, doesn't care about religion at all.
My friend's mother did, though, very much. When my friend's children were young, their grandmother said to my friend, "Are they going to be Muslims? Christians? Jews? I don't care what they are but they should be something." That is a common sort of thinking in Islam, much more widespread than you seem to believe.
I don't think it would be wrong to say there is no generalization short of biology that is true for 1.9 billion people.
--------------
> I heard a story of a missionary called to Spain,
> he was my brother's roommate in college. They were
> serving in a small Spanish province on the
> northern edge of Africa called Ceuta. A bunch of
> Muslim illegals listened to them talk and they
> were eventually deported back home. None of them
> were baptized. Somehow the word got back to their
> families in their home country that they had been
> talking to Christian missionaries and they were
> killed. When the missionaries came back to the
> camp a week or two later everyone panicked and
> chaos ensued. The local guard caught one of the
> missionaries and sent him to jail over night. The
> other missionary made it back to the apartment and
> called the mission president who had to call the
> local authorities.
You "heard a story?"
-------------------------
> Muslims don't return the tolerance. Here is a
> press release from Malaysia, one of the saner
> Muslim countries.
> https://news-my.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/ho
> noring-the-sacred-and-noble-calling-of-a-mother
>
> "6 May 2022 - Kuala Lumpur News Release
> Honoring the Sacred and Noble Calling of a Mother
>
> ->(For Non-Muslim Use Only)<-
> "
Once again you proffer an article that does NOT say what you insinuate it does. There is zero in there about Muslim intolerance in Malaysia or anywhere else.
--------------
> You can't unconvert from Islam.
False.
There are some countries where that is the "law" but even there large numbers of Muslims simply stop practicing and consider it a done deal. Giving up God must surely count as "unconverting." Moreover there are many Muslim countries and communities into which, and from which, people convert all the time.
I get the sense that you do not know many Muslims. I do. Relevant in this context is what I have observed in the life of an older Iranian woman with whom I am very close. Her father was a cabinet official in the Shah's government and they had to decamp for the States forthwith when the revolution occurred. That father, who speaks fluent Russian because he went to school during the period when the USSR occupied the northern half of Iran before WWII, doesn't care about religion at all.
My friend's mother did, though, very much. When my friend's children were young, their grandmother said to my friend, "Are they going to be Muslims? Christians? Jews? I don't care what they are but they should be something." That is a common sort of thinking in Islam, much more widespread than you seem to believe.
I don't think it would be wrong to say there is no generalization short of biology that is true for 1.9 billion people.
--------------
> I heard a story of a missionary called to Spain,
> he was my brother's roommate in college. They were
> serving in a small Spanish province on the
> northern edge of Africa called Ceuta. A bunch of
> Muslim illegals listened to them talk and they
> were eventually deported back home. None of them
> were baptized. Somehow the word got back to their
> families in their home country that they had been
> talking to Christian missionaries and they were
> killed. When the missionaries came back to the
> camp a week or two later everyone panicked and
> chaos ensued. The local guard caught one of the
> missionaries and sent him to jail over night. The
> other missionary made it back to the apartment and
> called the mission president who had to call the
> local authorities.
You "heard a story?"
It is illegal in many Muslim countries to leave Islam and join another religion. Mormons can become Muslims but Muslims are not allowed to become Mormons.
Salman Rushdie is a good example of what happens to high profile ex-Muslims. He is lucky to be alive.
The only option is to become semi-active or inactive. Millions of Muslims barely practise but few leave.
The big question here is why Mormon tothing has been used to promote another religion.
Salman Rushdie is a good example of what happens to high profile ex-Muslims. He is lucky to be alive.
The only option is to become semi-active or inactive. Millions of Muslims barely practise but few leave.
The big question here is why Mormon tothing has been used to promote another religion.
bruce, you are sounding like you have some problems with Muslims in general. I'm no fan of any religion myself. Just like all of Christianity is not like KKK, all of the Muslims are not like Hamas. It's not a great time to fan flames, IMO.
I remember the church having an article many years ago, I think in their magazine, about how much in common they have with Islam and how well they can work together. They've done the same thing with Jews of course. I recall the church bragging about their efforts to donate to other religions even more that Muslim religions.
I think the church has been trying to show they work well with and are accepting of other religions. They talk about how they partner with other religions to look like they are team players for all religions.
They are going to be careful now since there are religious, political and humanitarian issues involved, just like the rest of us.
I remember the church having an article many years ago, I think in their magazine, about how much in common they have with Islam and how well they can work together. They've done the same thing with Jews of course. I recall the church bragging about their efforts to donate to other religions even more that Muslim religions.
I think the church has been trying to show they work well with and are accepting of other religions. They talk about how they partner with other religions to look like they are team players for all religions.
They are going to be careful now since there are religious, political and humanitarian issues involved, just like the rest of us.
"Locally, LDS helped the Islamic Society of Orange County’s Al-Rahman Mosque in Garden Grove develop its library with a $15,000 donation"
The library probably doesn't have a single LGBTQ book.
The library probably doesn't have a single LGBTQ book.
This is a 2008 article. The 2004 money was tsunami aid. It quotes one 2001 essay. "Saints" are being bullied into giving tithing and fast donations to promote a rival religion in the first place" is an incorrect statement. Members have ZERO say in what ANY of their money is used for. It says so right on the tithing slip. Members being bullied is a whole other subject.
So, the better question is why you are posting this old news now. As your first post on this board. Why you are posting hyperbolic information, some of it incorrect, here. A story you heard does not constitute fact.
You obviously have an agenda. One I doubt will go over well with the board owner.
So, the better question is why you are posting this old news now. As your first post on this board. Why you are posting hyperbolic information, some of it incorrect, here. A story you heard does not constitute fact.
You obviously have an agenda. One I doubt will go over well with the board owner.
Actually I suspect this is our Mystery Poster from the North. The style is the same, though it is a little racist, even for him, so maybe it is a newbie who has a thing against Muslims.
Oh, and "Bruce", nobody in the Mormon Church asked you for your opinion on any of the money they spend for anything. Frankly I think a library is better than most of what they spend money on, even if there are no LGBTQ+ books. There aren't any of those in LDS libraries either.
Oh, and "Bruce", nobody in the Mormon Church asked you for your opinion on any of the money they spend for anything. Frankly I think a library is better than most of what they spend money on, even if there are no LGBTQ+ books. There aren't any of those in LDS libraries either.
Bruce didn't bring up the War on Cash.
A lot to reply to here.
"This is a 2008 article"
Joseph Smith was around two hundred years ago and we still discuss him. That's a lot further back than 2008.
Mormonism is a church where leaders stay in power for a long time. R. Nelson has been in the Q12 since 1984, long before any of this happened. Holland and Cook were also in the Q12 at the time. Many of the same people are in charge in the church. There are many Russell M. Nelsons and Sheri Dews in the church.
""Saints" are being bullied into giving tithing and fast donations to promote a rival religion in the first place" is an incorrect statement. Members have ZERO say in what ANY of their money is used for. It says so right on the tithing slip. Members being bullied is a whole other subject."
Members do not get told that their money will be put into a different church or religion, but are told that it is to be used for supporting their own church.
I don't remember being told that my money would be given to any other religion. Do you? I was told that the "windows of heaven" woould open.
"it is a little racist"
Anyone can be a Muslim including you and me. There is no Muslim race and it is found on every continent. Even a few parts of Europe have been majority Muslim for a long time like Albania.
I don't have an issue with individual Muslims being helped. I do have an issue with money being used to promote Islam and Islamic groups. Especially one like Islamic Aid which has a bad record and is connected to the Muslim Brotherhood.
"bruce, you are sounding like you have some problems with Muslims in general. I'm no fan of any religion myself. Just like all of Christianity is not like KKK, all of the Muslims are not like Hamas. It's not a great time to fan flames, IMO."
We're told tithing is to "open the windows of Heaven", not to help grow another religion. Why don't Mormon missionaries just cut out the middleman and get investigators to pray about whether the Koran is true or not?
If Mormons want to give money to Islamic organizations they should do so of their own free will. One of my local stores has an Islamic Aid box if I want to give money to it.
"I think the church has been trying to show they work well with and are accepting of other religions. They talk about how they partner with other religions to look like they are team players for all religions."
This is self-defeating from their own point of view. Mormonism is weird and the only reason some people remain in it is because they think it is unique. The whole foundation myth of Mormonism is that it is the true church and not to join any others. That appears at the back of the POGP and we were taught it by missionaries. Once Mormonism loses that, the rest falls apart — why tithe, listen to the prophet or read the Book of Mormon? There is no point in remaining a member.
"Frankly I think a library is better than most of what they spend money on, even if there are no LGBTQ+ books."
How much zakat is being spent by Muslim groups on building Mormon libraries? I don't think most Muslims would approve of their money being used for Mormonism and why should they?
If my Roman Catholic friends found their church donations had been used to build a Mormon temple, they wouldn't be happy about it either.
"This is a 2008 article"
Joseph Smith was around two hundred years ago and we still discuss him. That's a lot further back than 2008.
Mormonism is a church where leaders stay in power for a long time. R. Nelson has been in the Q12 since 1984, long before any of this happened. Holland and Cook were also in the Q12 at the time. Many of the same people are in charge in the church. There are many Russell M. Nelsons and Sheri Dews in the church.
""Saints" are being bullied into giving tithing and fast donations to promote a rival religion in the first place" is an incorrect statement. Members have ZERO say in what ANY of their money is used for. It says so right on the tithing slip. Members being bullied is a whole other subject."
Members do not get told that their money will be put into a different church or religion, but are told that it is to be used for supporting their own church.
I don't remember being told that my money would be given to any other religion. Do you? I was told that the "windows of heaven" woould open.
"it is a little racist"
Anyone can be a Muslim including you and me. There is no Muslim race and it is found on every continent. Even a few parts of Europe have been majority Muslim for a long time like Albania.
I don't have an issue with individual Muslims being helped. I do have an issue with money being used to promote Islam and Islamic groups. Especially one like Islamic Aid which has a bad record and is connected to the Muslim Brotherhood.
"bruce, you are sounding like you have some problems with Muslims in general. I'm no fan of any religion myself. Just like all of Christianity is not like KKK, all of the Muslims are not like Hamas. It's not a great time to fan flames, IMO."
We're told tithing is to "open the windows of Heaven", not to help grow another religion. Why don't Mormon missionaries just cut out the middleman and get investigators to pray about whether the Koran is true or not?
If Mormons want to give money to Islamic organizations they should do so of their own free will. One of my local stores has an Islamic Aid box if I want to give money to it.
"I think the church has been trying to show they work well with and are accepting of other religions. They talk about how they partner with other religions to look like they are team players for all religions."
This is self-defeating from their own point of view. Mormonism is weird and the only reason some people remain in it is because they think it is unique. The whole foundation myth of Mormonism is that it is the true church and not to join any others. That appears at the back of the POGP and we were taught it by missionaries. Once Mormonism loses that, the rest falls apart — why tithe, listen to the prophet or read the Book of Mormon? There is no point in remaining a member.
"Frankly I think a library is better than most of what they spend money on, even if there are no LGBTQ+ books."
How much zakat is being spent by Muslim groups on building Mormon libraries? I don't think most Muslims would approve of their money being used for Mormonism and why should they?
If my Roman Catholic friends found their church donations had been used to build a Mormon temple, they wouldn't be happy about it either.
So, the better question is why you are posting this old news now. As your first post on this board. Why you are posting hyperbolic information, some of it incorrect, here. A story you heard does not constitute fact.
You obviously have an agenda. One I doubt will go over well with the board owner.
You obviously have an agenda. One I doubt will go over well with the board owner.
Members who tithe or otherwise donate to the Mormon church get no say in how their money is spent. There is no accountability or oversight. The members can choose *not* to tithe/donate, and given the church's $100 billion dollar trust fund, along with the extensive business and land holdings, I would say that is a sensible choice.
Most churches open their books to their members at a minimum, and often the general public. Bruce, you chose (in the past) to donate to an organization that does not do this. Mormons get no accountability from the church for how the money is spent. I would believe you if you said that you were indoctrinated to do this. Yet you nonetheless did. That's how deep the brainwashing goes. Mormons keep throwing money into a dark and seemingly endless pit.
Most churches open their books to their members at a minimum, and often the general public. Bruce, you chose (in the past) to donate to an organization that does not do this. Mormons get no accountability from the church for how the money is spent. I would believe you if you said that you were indoctrinated to do this. Yet you nonetheless did. That's how deep the brainwashing goes. Mormons keep throwing money into a dark and seemingly endless pit.
Obviously mormons don't care what is done with their money. If they did, they would have done something about it, like we did. They have had years to chew this bit of info over. Why this is an issue for Bruce, now, is the only thing of interest IMHO. He didn't care about it at the time.