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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
...with a brutal take on poverty
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/10/28/2201563/-While-U-S-church-attendance-has-dropped-prosperity-gospel-has-risen-with-a-brutal-take-on-poverty/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
I was very impressed with this article/editorial on the growth of the so-called Prosperity Gospel and why it's not Biblically sanctioned. From the article I'll quote the definition of the Prosperity Gospel taken from the definition by the Harvard Divinity School:
block quote
The Prosperity Gospel (PG) is a fast-growing theologically conservative movement frequently associated with Pentecostalism, evangelicalism, and charismatic
Christianity that emphasizes believers’ abilities to transcend poverty and/or illness through devotion and positive confession.
The PG is popular among impoverished communities, where at best it is considered to offer the poor a means of imagining and reaching for better lives (at
times accompanied by sound financial advice), and at worst is criticized as predatory and manipulative, particularly when churches or pastors require heavy
tithing. Members of the socioeconomic elite may also be drawn to PG messages, which affirm the religious and spiritual legitimacy of wealth accumulation
and reinforce a worldview in which financial success is an indicator of moral soundness.”
block quote end
There is a lot of good historical information here, including the roots of this Gospel going as far back to at least Norman Vincent Peale. And the story about Paula White and her profitable "Resurrection Seeds" business is a reminder that there's a sucker born every minute. So maybe all the Mormons need to do to cash in on this is to enliven their religious ceremonies--I mean the sheeple--oops! I mean people--are there for the taking!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2023 11:12PM by blindguy.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/10/28/2201563/-While-U-S-church-attendance-has-dropped-prosperity-gospel-has-risen-with-a-brutal-take-on-poverty/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
I was very impressed with this article/editorial on the growth of the so-called Prosperity Gospel and why it's not Biblically sanctioned. From the article I'll quote the definition of the Prosperity Gospel taken from the definition by the Harvard Divinity School:
block quote
The Prosperity Gospel (PG) is a fast-growing theologically conservative movement frequently associated with Pentecostalism, evangelicalism, and charismatic
Christianity that emphasizes believers’ abilities to transcend poverty and/or illness through devotion and positive confession.
The PG is popular among impoverished communities, where at best it is considered to offer the poor a means of imagining and reaching for better lives (at
times accompanied by sound financial advice), and at worst is criticized as predatory and manipulative, particularly when churches or pastors require heavy
tithing. Members of the socioeconomic elite may also be drawn to PG messages, which affirm the religious and spiritual legitimacy of wealth accumulation
and reinforce a worldview in which financial success is an indicator of moral soundness.”
block quote end
There is a lot of good historical information here, including the roots of this Gospel going as far back to at least Norman Vincent Peale. And the story about Paula White and her profitable "Resurrection Seeds" business is a reminder that there's a sucker born every minute. So maybe all the Mormons need to do to cash in on this is to enliven their religious ceremonies--I mean the sheeple--oops! I mean people--are there for the taking!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2023 11:12PM by blindguy.
I agree that it is predatory and manipulative. Gullible people are looking for any way to be prosperous (aka blessed) and can't see they are being duped.
Good article. I'm glad there are more stories out there about how people are using God to do scammy things. Dens of robbers thrive in trusting environments like religion where promises of God's favor are never questioned.
Good article. I'm glad there are more stories out there about how people are using God to do scammy things. Dens of robbers thrive in trusting environments like religion where promises of God's favor are never questioned.
I would say that Norman Vincent Peale had a different take on it. I used to read some of his books many years ago, and IMO wealth generation was not his primary concern. His books were more about maintaining a positive and constructive outlook on life in a wide variety of areas. He certainly would have not condoned the idea that wealth accumulation is an indicator of moral soundness.
I used to attend his former church in NYC -- Marble Collegiate. His hand-picked successor used to preach in the same vein. The sermons were positive and uplifting. Tithing was not heavily promoted by the church, and from what I saw, most members did not tithe, but instead made modest donations such as you would see at any other church. Except for the excellence of the preaching, the church appearance and services were much like any other Protestant church. It should be noted that Peale came from a mainstream Christian background, and spent many years as a Methodist minister before being recruited by Marble Collegiate and the RCA.
His younger and more formative years were spent coping with the fallout of WWI, the Great Depression, and eventually WWII. His messages were meant to encourage people who were grappling with the problems of life, both large and small. He wanted to give them hope through a combination of positive thinking and faith. He was a big believer in mental health care and psychiatry, and never meant his philosophy to be a substitute for professional care when needed.
IMO, somewhere along the way, Peale's message got twisted and absorbed into the Prosperity Gospel message of today. It turned into a vehicle for greed. I don't think that's what he in any way intended.
I used to attend his former church in NYC -- Marble Collegiate. His hand-picked successor used to preach in the same vein. The sermons were positive and uplifting. Tithing was not heavily promoted by the church, and from what I saw, most members did not tithe, but instead made modest donations such as you would see at any other church. Except for the excellence of the preaching, the church appearance and services were much like any other Protestant church. It should be noted that Peale came from a mainstream Christian background, and spent many years as a Methodist minister before being recruited by Marble Collegiate and the RCA.
His younger and more formative years were spent coping with the fallout of WWI, the Great Depression, and eventually WWII. His messages were meant to encourage people who were grappling with the problems of life, both large and small. He wanted to give them hope through a combination of positive thinking and faith. He was a big believer in mental health care and psychiatry, and never meant his philosophy to be a substitute for professional care when needed.
IMO, somewhere along the way, Peale's message got twisted and absorbed into the Prosperity Gospel message of today. It turned into a vehicle for greed. I don't think that's what he in any way intended.
From this article there is a link to an NPR piece on Norman Vincent Peale. From that article comes the following:
"Peale always was a conservative, inclined to praise the American way of life and the capitalist economics he saw as key to prosperity. But he was an establishment man, not a reactionary or a panderer to conspiracy theories.
In the mid-1930s, he denounced such demagogic figures as Louisiana's Huey Long, the governor and senator whose semi-socialist program was called "Every Man a King." He also opposed Father Charles Coughlin in Detroit, whose hugely popular Catholic radio show descended into anti-Semitism and sympathy for the rise of fascism in Europe.
As time went on, Peale was increasingly associated with mainstream-to-right-wing political groups. He signed on early with the group called Spiritual Mobilization, a creation of prominent Protestant ministers in league with some of the leading industrialists of the era, including oil producers and automakers, who opposed the New Deal of President Franklin Roosevelt.
Spiritual Mobilization, with Peale on its advisory board, also became associated with the "America First" movement that opposed U.S. entry in World War II."
I probably should note here that I am not a fan of Mr. Peale's philosophy. It is too simplistic and fails to take into consideration the social nature of human beings. You can have all of the positive philosophy and confidence you want in your personal philosophy or product, but if not enough people subscribe or buy into it, it is going to go down in flames. Also, this philosophy does not judge what some people using it are actually doing with it, and that can be a problem if the "positive" thing you wish to do happens to destroy, sometimes literally, the lives of others.
"Peale always was a conservative, inclined to praise the American way of life and the capitalist economics he saw as key to prosperity. But he was an establishment man, not a reactionary or a panderer to conspiracy theories.
In the mid-1930s, he denounced such demagogic figures as Louisiana's Huey Long, the governor and senator whose semi-socialist program was called "Every Man a King." He also opposed Father Charles Coughlin in Detroit, whose hugely popular Catholic radio show descended into anti-Semitism and sympathy for the rise of fascism in Europe.
As time went on, Peale was increasingly associated with mainstream-to-right-wing political groups. He signed on early with the group called Spiritual Mobilization, a creation of prominent Protestant ministers in league with some of the leading industrialists of the era, including oil producers and automakers, who opposed the New Deal of President Franklin Roosevelt.
Spiritual Mobilization, with Peale on its advisory board, also became associated with the "America First" movement that opposed U.S. entry in World War II."
I probably should note here that I am not a fan of Mr. Peale's philosophy. It is too simplistic and fails to take into consideration the social nature of human beings. You can have all of the positive philosophy and confidence you want in your personal philosophy or product, but if not enough people subscribe or buy into it, it is going to go down in flames. Also, this philosophy does not judge what some people using it are actually doing with it, and that can be a problem if the "positive" thing you wish to do happens to destroy, sometimes literally, the lives of others.
Yes, his philosophy can be misused as in the MLM business model, where most people end up losing money. All the positive thinking in the world cannot prevail against a poor business model. Again, I don't think that's what he intended. He wanted to give people hope and the impetus to work hard or continue to push through when the chips are down. It is very common for people to get depressed when they are struggling, and that's what he was trying to address. He would have been in his early 30s when the Great Depression hit, and that time was transformative for many people.
Peale was indeed, on the moderate-to-conservative end of the spectrum. He was also opposed to the presidential candidacy of JFK, due to the latter's Catholic faith. That doesn't bother me because many people back then thought that the Pope would lead Kennedy around by the nose, which Catholics knew would not the case.
Peale was indeed, on the moderate-to-conservative end of the spectrum. He was also opposed to the presidential candidacy of JFK, due to the latter's Catholic faith. That doesn't bother me because many people back then thought that the Pope would lead Kennedy around by the nose, which Catholics knew would not the case.