Now for some good news….

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/letters/2023/11/12/letter-totals-missionaries-convert/

Letter: Totals of missionaries, convert baptisms and the membership growth rate have become dismal data points for the LDS Church

“This is the second time in the past decade that proselytizing missionary numbers have artificially and temporarily spiked. In 2013 and 2014, the totals peaked at 83,035 and 85,147 after President Thomas S. Monson in late 2012 lowered the age for serving from 19 to 18 for males and 21 to 19 for females. Although church authorities predicted the total would rise to a “baseline” of 100,000 by 2019, it instead fell to 65,137 in 2018. Despite the record missionary numbers in 2013 and 2014, the membership growth rate plunged, shockingly, to the lowest levels since 1947, where it remains.
Totals of young full-time missionaries, convert baptisms, baptisms per missionary and the membership growth rate have become dismal data points for the church. Moreover, the fastest LDS growth is in impoverished Third World countries, while most advanced nations see little or no growth. None of this is likely to change anytime soon.”

Steve Warren, West Valley City

Why don't you take this down? Eric K posted it 90 minutes before you did and now your thread is competing with his.

And I posted the same thing a week and a half ago.
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2495746

It is nice to see the same analysis of the numbers in the Tribune. The writer came to the exact same conclusion I did because the numbers are the numbers.

I was not aware that church leaders were claiming that the number of mission calls after the 2012 eligibility age change that that number of calls was going to be the new baseline, rather than a temporary surge.

As the data shows, the 2012 surge lasted about 4 years - two years of some of the newly eligible people getting mission calls, and then two more years before those people completed their missions and returned home.

Precisely the same thing will happen with the 2023 post-covid surge of mission calls.

Well, perhaps you can post this article a third time today just in case someone didn't notice the other two threads.

Nobody is getting a letterman's jacket...



Although, upon further consideration, wouldn't that be cool!!

Gladys, what color pom-poms would you like?

I don't care much, Senor Jesus, as long as they harmonize with the trim on your sombrero and accordian.

We wouldn't, after all, want the audience to believe we lack class.

The church has been stagnant for a quarter century. The only thing giving it any growth was members having babies. The church has lots of money to build highly visible white elephant temples nobody wants. Building more monuments to stupidity is the real growth in the church.

Not sure where you are getting this. The church reports considerably more baptisms than births each year. True, the dropout rate of baptized people is high, but we don't know how high. We also don't know how many of the children of record drop out either

A large portion of the newly created stakes are in Central and South America, the Philippines, and Africa. That is mostly baptized growth.


I do think it is safe to say the large bulk of the growth in the US and Canada is births rather than baptisms. But to say that is "the only thing" doesn't comport with the evidence.

Shouldn't be asking where Schrodinger is getting this info. A more accurate question would be to ask where the church is getting *their* numbers.

I was told by a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy 24 years ago the church was growing at 1%. The new convert retention rate is extremely low. Birth was the biggest growth factor. That’s why the church focuses so hard on retaining the youth. I was told missions are more about retaining the missionaries than bringing new converts in.

I tried looking at some recent April Conference Reports (when they give out the stats) but did not find mention of the number of resignations for the prior year...


I want to suspect (and I guess I'll go ahead and do so cuz I'm a big boy and such...) that they don't consider resignations as having any validity; once you're a member, you remain a member until they say so!

The mormon process of resignation is just their way of getting along with civil law and acknowledging that it could cost them money, in the way of civil lawsuit awards, if they tried to enforce their religious laws on non-compliant members.

The purpose of resigning is not to somehow force them to lower their overall membership number that is reported to the public.

They can and do report a basically fictional general membership number.

The purpose of resigning is to end your membership. It does that.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
----------------------------
>
> The purpose of resigning
> is to end your membership.
> It does that.

I don't think ghawd has ever revealed how to leave the church and thus be guaranteed spending eternity in outer darkness, other than to sin against the holy ghost, which is to KNOW the truth and then *deny* it.

Other than that, you could be Hitler or Pol "piss-in-a" Pot and still make it to the Telestial Kingdom, which is such a wonderful place that if we knew its grandeur, we'd commit suicide to get out of this earthly life and its travail.

The ONLY reason the church allows its members to present a resignation letter and thus avoid a court of love is a decision written by the Supreme Court of Oklahoma.

OKLAHOMA!!!

Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains . . .

That lockdown etc destroyed their conversion rates. They ended up with what's known as a "dead cat bounce", but while their numbers are up on 2020-21, '24 will not be up on '23.

I don’t see any evidence for a “destroyed conversion rate”.

There was a serious hit during covid. Now the conversion rate is back to about what it was pre-covid. The conversion rate was already trending downward before covid, and it will likely continue that trend. However, it is just that, the continuation of an existing trend, not a destruction of the conversion rate by covid.

I expect 2024 convert numbers will be slightly lower than 2023. With the temporary surge in missionaries, the rate might even tick up a bit.

As long as there are graveyards with tombstones with names and dates of birth, missionaries will continue to lay up treasures in heaven.

Those proxy baptisms are the best because they can’t say “no.” On the other hand, they can’t pay tithing either, so the poor shlubs doing the baptisms get hit up.

Saint or Schlub, there's is a bit more than an even chance that we all end up in the same state, condition, or state of decomposition...

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saint or Schlub, there's is a bit more than an
> even chance that we all end up in the same state,
> condition, or state of decomposition...


What we know for sure is that we get recycled into the worlds most precious resource, worm shit.

ChurchCo appeals to vulnerable folks everywhere, the emphasis on quantity rather than quality is a testament to this.


IDK about other religions (Scientology for example), but my Mennonite friends will have none of this (Quakers & Amish also?).