I think it safe to say that most contributors to this board have a less than positive view of the dietary supplement industry. They are almost always linked to a MLM, which only adds to their anomie. I wanted to jump in and explain the truth behind vitamins and other biochemicals that promoters claim will fix everything in your life, even if nothing is wrong to begin with. My credentials include a lifetime in the chemistry and pharmaceutical industries. Please read on. It will help to set the stage for deciding if you really need to fork over your cash to your MLM "friend". I'll try to keep it brief.

Almost everything in your body is a biological jig. A jig holds a workpiece in the right configuration for some operation- and after that, the jig releases its workpiece to make room for the next one. Vitamins are components of certain jigs inside you. Your body makes most of the components you need, and assembles all the parts in the right configuration. Some components are not generated in-house and must be supplied externally. Those are vitamins. The reasons for limited in-house production vary, but most are compounds that were readily available in our diets and so it was just easier to use what was already available. We actually try to make Vitamin C, like most animals, but somewhere along the way a mutation made it so the final step doesn't work for most humans. There are actually some lineages with an intact production line all the way and so they do not get scurvy.

That's all vitamins are. They are parts of jigs, like drill press clamps or table saw rip fences. They are not magical- and that is the big secret that a great many people just cannot deal with. They need what can only be described as magic in their lives, and so they glom onto the most outlandish claims for their cherished chemicals. they even hate that word "chemical", because it totally removes any vestige of magic that they pretend resides in their smoothies and cleanses and anything else. To repeat: a vitamin fits in a specific location in a specific chemical jig and it does not fit anywhere else. You can't use a rip fence to hold an airplane strut in place for welding. Any encounter with any other biochemical is meaningless to the vitamin molecule. It just bounces off and moves on.

Here's how to tell if you are getting enough vitamins: ask yourself if you are a scurvy bilge rat. Ask yourself if you have rickets or beriberi. If you do, take vitamins. If you don't, then you are already fine and don't fix it. And yes, I know there are some individuals who do need supplemental nutrition. There are people who can help with that. We call them doctors. Note that some vitamins in excess can absolutely kill you.

A great deal of the claims for supplements came from Linus Pauling. He had a Nobel Prize for quantum chemistry, and he decided that was enough to qualify him as an expert in everything. It was his fault that we got into the anti-oxidant madness. He went ballistic promising that vitamin C- a very effective anti-oxidant in a test tube- would prevent cancer and probably social awkwardness because why not? Suddenly anti-oxidants were the key to curing everything that was wrong with you, especially if there was nothing wrong with you to start with but you just can't be happy unless you buy our products! Of course he died young, of cancer. It turns out- quelle surprise!- that your body actually needs some oxidants (free radicals) for normal operation, and it already has all the machinery it needs to maintain their levels within very tight tolerances. To repeat: your body is a factory with no need for any added magical contributions.

I know this is long. I just wanted to help everybody know what's going on.

Are you a scurvy bilge rat? Just asking.

Thank you.

Some words and phrases associated with the supplement industry that I can't stand are detox, cleanse, and especially, "gut health," whatever that means.

I have been anemic since I was a teen and I can tell the difference when I take iron. The whole Pac NW is low on D. Other than that I figure we are good because we eat a lot of fruits and veg and a good variety of them.

What I find annoying is the whole gluten thing. People, it will not make you drop weight and unless you have a REAL medical condition like celiac disease it will not hurt you. In many cases there is MORE sugar and fat in "gluten free" crap.

What I find alarming is that more people, in my family are coming down with actual celiac disease. What is going on? It's not a fad, it's a bit of a crisis!

"Celiac disease tends to run in families. If someone in your family has the condition, ask a member of your health care team if you should be tested. Also ask about testing if you or someone in your family has a risk factor for celiac disease, such as type 1 diabetes."

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/celiac-disease/symptoms-causes/syc-20352220

It's definitely showing a pattern. I'm so glad they have new food options these days.

Also, as is typical, my family consists of different "bloodlines" as not all are related to each other directly. And yet, there are several strains of celiac emerging.

devoted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I find alarming is that more people, in my
> family are coming down with actual celiac disease.
> What is going on? It's not a fad, it's a bit of
> a crisis!

Wheat products are heavily contaminated these days. Some research suggests that chemicals used to process them are the main cause, rather than the wheat itself. The wheat we encounter nowadays has been heavily modified and is dissimilar to what our ancestors had. If you buy wheat based products go to reputable suppliers, not Walmart, Nestlé, Kellogg's and PepsiCo (which makes cereals).

We have far too much wheat/starch/carbs in our diet and should be eating more unprocessed meat and fish. Unfortunately the vegan bandwagon is promoting we eat more of it. Soy and wheat products can have an estrogenic effect, which explains a lot in modern society including rises in breast cancer.

TLDR: Giant corporations are making you eat trash and the vegan lobby encourages it. Support reputable small local producers when you can.

"The vegan lobby."

Yes, those twelve very skinny twenty-somethings wield incredible power in Washington. Thank you for pointing that out.

  
  

Right? And for that matter, why don't you Lost Vegans get more respect?

It's a travesty, I tell you.

LOL. Wait until Tat hears about what big agriculture and factory farming are doing to food! (Hint: vegans are not in charge of them.)

Don't worry, it'll make more sense when he adds Marxism, La Sorbonne, and frankfurters to the story.

Thanks.

Most of that stuff ends up in some form in the urine, hopefully not causing harm or toxicity. That stuff is mostly very expensive pee additive.

Never mind that unless the FDA regulates and verifies efficacy, purity, safety, security, etc. routinely, these pseudo health MLMs can make lots of claims without getting much scrutiny.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks.
>
> Most of that stuff ends up in some form in the
> urine, hopefully not causing harm or toxicity.
> That stuff is mostly very expensive pee additive.
>
>
> Never mind that unless the FDA regulates and
> verifies efficacy, purity, safety, security, etc.
> routinely, these pseudo health MLMs can make lots
> of claims without getting much scrutiny.

The FDA barely regulates the food industry properly. What good would it be with MLMs? Modern food is often full of all kinds of nasties and fattening ingredients such as corn syrup.

As I said above, I DON'T associate supplements with MLMs particularly. I tend to think of them selling other products like useless utensils, bad art and so on. But MLMs do sell a lot of products which produce microplastics, a major cause of sicknesses, pollution and other issues in modern society.

>> As I said above, I DON'T associate supplements with MLMs particularly.

There are lots of MLMs that sell dietary supplements, weight loss supplements, energy products, "gut health" supplements, etc. -- Nutra Life, Herbalife, Amway, Optavia, Plexus, Aluva, Isagenix, and Bravenly, to name a few. Some MLM companies such as Monat and Beachbody start out with other products or services, and then branch out into dietary supplements as well. These companies are popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm. They often compete for the best scammers and their "teams." There must be a lot of profit in this industry, at least for those on top. As with most MLMs, the majority of the representatives lose money at it.

A year ago, my lab tests went crazy. I started to take some supplements to help them out as all my doctor did was take me off a few of my meds and then things got worse. The doctor didn't put me on something else to take care of things like my cholesterol or metformin to help stabilize my sugars. It was crazy. Scared me to death.

I ended up going to a new doctor and things have settled down a lot.

I sometimes worry about maybe I need such and such, and I am skeptical so I don't buy them because I don't know enough.

> I think it safe to say that most contributors to this board have a less than positive view of the dietary supplement industry. They are almost always linked to a MLM, which only adds to their anomie.

Well, there's two sweeping statements for the price of one. I don't know what you base the first on. The second is even more questionable, because many of us think of such supplements being made by what AltMed people would term "Big Pharma". I don't think I have ever bought any supplement off an MLM although I am aware of them. I tend to go into a store and buy them and very occasionally online.

Coincidentally I was discussing vitamins last night. We're getting into dark times in the Northern Lands so have to fight off those winter blues. It turns out one of my friends is very interested in the subject and claims that the body needs Magnesium compounds to process Vitamin D properly. He says that just taking Vitamin D robs the body of Magnesium compounds and most of it is not absorbed. No, he wasn't selling me any, and no, I don't know how true this is.

What is clear is that modern diets are disgusting and don't provide adequate nutrition. We ingest microplastics and toxins all over the place now from various sources. People should be eating proper meat and fish, which is not factory farmed or processed, but which is protein rich. Steaks not processed burgers, let alone "plant based" trash. The opposite of what the WoW says. Dairy products provide ample Vitamin D if you have European ancestry and no intolerance to it. Our fruit and vegetables have unfortunately been heavily contaminated by chemicals, and now genetic engineering. If you can grow your own, or know someone with reputable growing methods, go to them. As for gluten, half the problem seems to be with chemicals used in wheat farming rather than the natural product but we do consume far too much bread and carbs.

It is very easy to find out if your friend is correct. Get a biochemistry textbook. And the internet doesn't count here because there is no truth filter. He may be right. And yes, sunlight is certainly part of the vitamin D production sequence. But to repeat my main point: the (real) medical establishment has very reliable methods of assessing your magnesium levels. I teach people how to do those tests. And yes, there are certainly cases of low Mg levels. So go to a doctor and get tested. Then you will know. Problem solved.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2023 07:30PM by slskipper.

Do not fall prey to fake artificial sweeteners!!

Be sure to use only genuine artificial sweeteners!!

My biggest problem with the dietary supplements industry was, is, and continues to be the lack of regulation. Dietary supplement suppliers make a lot of health claims about their products (sometimes specific) and yet there are no required scientific tests to back up those claims.

There is also a second issue with that industry. Dietary supplement suppliers make a lot of claims about what and how much of what is in those supplements. However, because these supplements are not treated as medicines, there is no oversight to make sure that what is in the supplements matches what is listed on the labels. And the only way you can find out if what is listed on the label is actually in the product is to get a sample of the product and hire a laboratory to list out the ingredients and how much of each is actually in the sample. That is a very expensive way to go.

So, whenever you are looking at dietary supplements, the rule of thumb is, buyer beware!

Thank you for this enlightening post. I've always wondered if taking a vitamin supplement was helpful or bogus. Some say, "it can't hurt" but when money going out of pocket is involved, then it can indeed hurt.

As for if I am a scurvy bilge rat, I used to be.

I got better.

Ha! Ha! I grew up in Hong Kong. You haven’t seen strange cures until you visit a Chinese pharmacy.

"There are people who can help with that. We call them doctors."

In the majority of cases, blood work can give a wealth of information. I'm amazed what doctors can test for now.

On MLMs, does anybody remember Shaklee products? One of the first dietary supplements I remember. Yes, it was BS.

I do indeed remember Shaklee. Our ward (St. Louis, 1960s) had several families who were distributors. They roped the Scouts in to serve as salespeople to earn a merit badge. I believe the company is still doing business.

It is such a classic case of trying to convince others that you, as a marketer, know more about medicine and biochemistry and physiology than all those silly folks who actually studied it in an actual university.

Thank you for providing this information.

I understand, from reading, that many people, especially those over 60 are deficient in Vitamin D. I understand a person's Vitamin D level is something that should be checked yearly by their physician as part of their well-check appointment.

I understand it's very difficult to get enough Vitamin D from our typical diet in the U.S., and most of us, especially as we get older, have difficulty converting sunlight on our bare skin to Vitamin D.

Open a tin of sardines and eat a sardine everyday. They provide a lot of nutrition, including Vitamin D. Sardines with a little mustard or tomato puree are delicious.

  
  

In the PacNW it is not age, it is lack of sun. No way in hell I would eat that.

We know Vitamins are all important because TheLardzServants, the prophets - especially Big Nellie - tell us so!

Surely you are not ignoring revealed Truth from the Big Cheeze of MFMC?

Vitamins work well if you are a starving peasant in a third world country.
In this country not so much.

MS is known to affect Scandinavian folks more than others, my DD #2 has it and was told the above;

Therefore the idea/theory that our bodies can be healthy without augmentation/intervention isn't 100% accurate.

a related (?) example: some (LDS & others) believe that god made the earth & sun & planets 'perfectly', I think this notion is currently out-of-favor:

exceptions are diseases in general, cancers, and details such as sunlight causes 'millions' of people to suffer melanoma.

>> Therefore the idea/theory that our bodies can be healthy without augmentation/intervention isn't 100% accurate.

I think the idea is that if you have a good diet, you should be getting all needed nutrients from your food. Scurvy and rickets are not so much a thing anymore in the western world, because we can all run to the grocery store to get orange juice and milk, cheese, and ice cream. In the rare instances where people do need supplemental nutrients, their physician is the best one to guide them.

Anybody interested in getting some information on supplements, check out Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka.

He explains why a lot of supplements don't work. It's not that they're a scam, though many are. We can take in vitamins, but if they aren't in the form that our bodies can use, they are not only useless but they can be detrimental to our health. The problem might be methylation.

As always, do your own research.

More than supplements, I get great benefits from cold showers, sunlight, grounding, fresh air, and breathing exercises. All 100% FREE!

I also eat a diet that works for me and I work out.

Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2023 08:49PM by T-Bone.