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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 05:03PM

But then who will save the king?!!?

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Posted by: Antidisestablishmentarianist ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 05:49PM

Maybe, her sister Hope.

Brother of Jerry, why are you reading the Christian Post?

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 06:10PM

A friend forwarded the link. I figured it was my only chance ever to work the word “disestablish” into a sentence.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 05:22PM

Disestablishmentarianism ?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 11:28AM

"What's it called if you're against this move?" he asked innocently?

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 05:27PM

The whole world is going to hell.


{{jk}}


But if there's no Church of England can the universe stand? :P

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 06:18PM

Will anyone notice?

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 12:27PM


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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 07:07PM


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Posted by: blindguy ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 10:52PM

...I don't expect it to pass, at least not this year. Yet the signs are there that such a disestablishment may pass in both houses of the English Parliament in the not-too-distant future. This is because church of England participation has been falling steadily. Quoting from the end of the article:

"Despite the CofE's entrenched position in British history and government, fewer Brits are filling the pews: in 2013, the average Sunday service attendance across the CofE was a little over 1 million, and by 2019, this number had dropped to 854,000, a decline of over 15%.

A further decline occurred in the wake of the pandemic, with a report by the Diocese of Oxford estimating that attendance in October 2022 was at 81% of 2019 levels.

The issue of declining numbers extends beyond church attendance.

According to CofE data analyzed by The Telegraph, 423 churches closed between 2010 and 2019, with nearly 1,000 churches closed from 1987 to 2019. This decline has brought the number of operational churches down to around 15,496.

Simultaneously, Christians' overall share of the population in England and Wales has dropped. According to the Office for National Statistics, Christians comprised 46.2% of the population in 2021, a decrease from 59.3% in 2011."

One other interesting note about this falloff in U.K. church attendance. I believe it was American Public Radio's program "Marketplace," that looked at the situation in the early 1990s. It noted that while the Church of England was being fully supported with British tax dollars, U.K. citizens were no longer regularly attending church functions and services. The person reporting the story suggested (and I agree) that the various cradle-to-grave protections that the British system gave its citizens fulfilled their physical needs and many no longer felt the need to be part of any religion.

Put another way, the "fulfillment of spiritual needs," as many religionists put it, may really be the unfulfilled physical needs of church participants. And I am quite sure that many American churches, especially those of the evangelical persuasion, look at the British model of fulfilling physical needs and the resulting downsizing of church attendance as something they don't want to see happen in the United States.

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Posted by: Monkee Man ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 05:10PM

blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One other interesting note about this falloff in
> U.K. church attendance. I believe it was American
> Public Radio's program "Marketplace," that looked
> at the situation in the early 1990s. It noted that
> while the Church of England was being fully
> supported with British tax dollars, U.K. citizens
> were no longer regularly attending church
> functions and services.

I think people in England are not very concerned with "tax dollars" as you put it for a pretty obvious reason.

Also the Church of England is not a UK church. Not only does it operate outside the UK - Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, Gibraltar - it does not operate in Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland. It has never been the established church in Scotland in any form, since Scotland had a Presbyterian church.

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 05:37PM

Hence the name Church of England

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 05:38PM

D'oh!

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Posted by: Carrieanne ( )
Date: November 27, 2023 01:28PM

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hence the name Church of England

Doesn't work for the other places though, does it?

The Isle of Man has never been part of England, although the English seem to think it is. It has its own government, and two chambers - the Keys (elected) and the LegCo (Legislative Council, unelected). The Brits inserted one of their unelected governors into the LegCo along with one of their Church of England bishops. This is controversial since most Manx aren't members of that church, and preferred the Methodists etc in olden days.

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: November 27, 2023 03:56PM

Even as a Crown Dependency most English rarely give it a thought. Dependency comes with some demands it seems

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 11:08PM

The church is not currently supported directly from tax money.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 27, 2023 03:47PM

This is correct. It is also true that it doesn't hold sway in Wales, although it does have its "Welsh" counterpart (the Church in Wales). Note the strategic use of "in" rather than "of" to avoid the acronym "COW" ;-).

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Posted by: Zelph the Apostate ( )
Date: November 25, 2023 11:32PM

At my last 'open mic sunday' 20 minutes of testimony was taken up by a nice lady teaching the loss of Christianity is going to have the world overrun by Islam.

Stay mormon or Islam will takeover!

Hey, it's probably more effective than the convoluted message they are currently peddling.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 02:44AM

How can England exist if it doesn't have an official state religion ?

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 10:43AM

The practical reality is that it does not have a state religion and hasn't for many years.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 11:58AM

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The practical reality is that it does not have a
> state religion and hasn't for many years.

True -- but remember the big bruhaha some years ago when Charles III said that he wanted to be the "protector of faiths" instead of the "protector of the faith?"

What ordinary people do or think doesn't matter in this case.

There are entrenched interests with turf to protect -- not to mention the Protestant zealots in Northern Ireland and elsewhere.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2023 12:00PM by anybody.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 27, 2023 03:49PM

I think most of the brouhaha was in the media... As kentish pointed out higher up in this thread, it has no effect on most people's lives and hardly impinges on their consciousness.

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Posted by: Monkee Man ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 05:05PM

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The practical reality is that it does not have a
> state religion and hasn't for many years.


It does and it is called football.

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 05:39PM

Now you are turning the conversation to serious matters.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 06:07PM

I saw that the good people of Everton were very, very, very unhappy today about the ten point penalty. IMO they need to take that up with the team's owners and managers.

It was an unhappy result for Tottenham, but the bicycle-kick goal for the following Man U game was exceptional. It looks super cold in England right now. Brrr!

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 08:23PM

Summer, Everton can't seem to catch a break. Man City have been under investigation for serious infractions for over a year now and nothing handed down. Perhaps more successful clubs get the break. If City is found at fault their penalty could be much bigger and include the taking away of titles. Won't offend me since Liverpool could receive one of them,

Garnacho"s goal for United could be the goal of the year.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 09:24PM

I wasn't aware of the Man City issues. I would just like to see someone knock them out of first place. Any team will do. I'd love it to be Tottenham, but with the injuries, I don't think it will be their year.

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: November 27, 2023 01:49PM

Liverpool essentially knocked them out of first place this past weekend with a draw at their ground. This opened the way for Arsenal who scraped a win against Brentford. It will be the games the top three or four teams play against each that will determine the chamnpion. Liverpool are the most serious threat to City but much might depend on who teams pick up in the January transfer window.

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Posted by: Eric3 ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 10:49AM

Outside the Middle East, state religion is on the decline.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 03:36PM

Iran is the extreme case--and in this context it is indeed extreme.

I have long believed that the best way to undermine a religion is to give it political power because then the hypocrisy, the contradictions, the compromises, and the corruption become clear. I have friends who regularly go back and forth between the West and Iran. They tell me that other than the countryside, where reaction is always strong, Iranians have largely abandoned Islam. People drink more or less openly, they have affairs openly, they criticize the Mullahs ferociously.

Ironically, a lot of Iranians are expressing the hope that Israel will respond to the Hamas terror by attacking and destroying the Iranian government.

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Posted by: Monkee Man ( )
Date: November 26, 2023 05:12PM

There have been such moves on a regular basis for the past two hundred years. They succeeded in Wales and Ireland (pre-partition), but not England.

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