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Posted by: punkysdilemma2023 ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 06:06PM

I don't know how many people are still here that were around in 2003 or so...I left TSCC so long ago, 20 years or so. As a part of that I set very clear boundaries with my family, especially my father, so I could move on and stay healthy.

While many people over the years have recommended no contact and estrangement, I did not opt to do that. I have several siblings and my parents live in a small town near my mothers many relationship (nevermos). I don't regret that decision, even though as my parents have aged (now in their 70s) and my father's abusiveness (often religious) towards me and other family members has escalated. My brother and I have solved this by just limiting contact and staying close to each other.

A recent blow up reminded me how the mormon church has intersected nastily with his own problems (not all mormon people are abusive fathers). But, oof...it was a doozy. I've spent the last 2 weeks processing everything and moving forward with my siblings.

My mother had a hysterectomy and bladder repair. And she, my father, and her doctors unfortunately decided to send her home that same day with a catheter in, back to rural Kansas where they live. I believe now, that this was a decision made for financial expediency (on my dad's part), desire to not be in the hospital (my mom), and desire to keep beds open (health care system). No one in the family thought this was great, but I am given limited information. In addition my parents told no one in her family that she had surgery, even though they only live a couple of miles away).

My father had signed up various church members in their branch (I believe he is the branch president) to baby sit my mother through the week so he could go into the church for long hours. He was away most of the evening at the church when my mother's vomiting and abdominal pain escalated. However he didn't head home, and the church member was cleaning up her vomit. No one called the doctor, or took her for emergency care until the middle of the night when she begged him to.

And no one knew about this until my sister called her phone to check in the following morning. My mother had bowel obstruction as a complication from her earlier surgery, and had an emergency surgery and was in the hospital for about a week after that.

In the first 3 days, my father could barely be brought to visit her. The texts from my sister about my mother's weeping and her feeling abandoned and distressed were hard to take. To be very clear, my mother never really stopped my father's bad behavior with us, and she was often depressed. I spent my late childhood and teens suggesting she leave him. She was never an engaged mother, and as the oldest I spent much of my youth cleaning and raising my younger sibs. My parents are a mess, I left home and then left that mess in my head and I have no desire to rescue them. But my sister still tries and by day three my sister was frantic about texts from my dad saying he would not be coming to the hospital to stay with mom that day and not sure when he would come next.

I love my sister. And I don't regret what I did next. I called the stake executive secretary. It's an easy google. I said a sister was alone in the hospital, her husband wasn't with her, and she was upset and in need of a visit and possibly a blessing. I left her name and contact information...And of course my dad is a branch president so once the message was passed on...and they were troubled that after offering support he hadn't been taking care of his wife...Well my father the anus got called out.

In less than 30 minutes from my call, he was sending nasty texts to my sister and to me. He was very abusive, and so I told him to f*** off and that he was pathetic. He responded with a very awkward "as are you." And so I wrote "My kids like me. You can't say the same."

I have had a standard about being fair and not responding to abuse with attacks (strong boundaries yes, words intended to wound, no). But I hit my limit after 20 years of escalating behavior, and I don't regret what I said.

He was at the hospital quickly and after he showed my mother's state improved and my sister got a break. He also began triangulating and not sharing much info about my mom with me and my brother.

I found out yesterday, from my sister, that she and another sister spent the weekend at mom's house, cleaning. And that their financial situation is bonkers.

Two years ago my father, the anus, took in someone he found at the side of the road. Two years ago, when I found out, I expressed concern. I did a background check and found he had a history of justice involvement, and other concerning issues and I told my parents I was concerned about taking in a stranger. My father, the anus, responded to me with some vitriole about it, and I left them with it, not knowing the man had stayed there two years.

There was some sort of incident with my parents finding unregistered guns. Which to me is bad enough.

But apparently my father, without telling my mother, took out a credit card in his name, and gave it to the guy who maxed it out.

And then, my father, again without telling my mother, TOOK OUT A SECOND CREDIT CARD in his name and gave it to the guy, who maxed out the 2nd card.

And then my father sold him a old car that needed a part replaced...which the guy didn't do, and drove until the car broke down. That car may have stayed on my father's insurance (unclear).

And then my father let him drive their personal car, which the guy totaled, apparently around the time of my mother's surgery.

And then, in the middle of everything, my father kicked the guy out (which I don't think you can do if someone has lived there 2 years, so let's hope no one notices he broke a tenancy law).

And the reason we know anything about this is that my mom was weeping in the hospital to my sister with fears about money.

My mom is a competent adult, according to the law, which isn't a high bar. I'm also not going to rescue her...I tried for decades and that ship has sailed. But I did make sure to tell her family what was up. Again, I have no regrets outing and shaming my father.

I should feel worse about all of this. But once I realized that I DGAF, and that what I really cared about was protecting my sister who always tries to rescue them and make the family "seem" better than it is, I called my sister.

We had a great talk. I explained that I would not be rescuing mom, and that my sister is now a grown, married woman with children, and I wouldn't be rescuing her as if we were still kids. I got real agreement that my father is abusive, which is the first time there was a frank agreement about that.

I think my father and mom have been taking in people to live with them over and over (it started when I was 12) because they would not have friends otherwise. People who are dependent on them will humor them, when few others will. And I think my father and mother justify it with religion.

And there is a lot of relief about telling my cousin that she is free to share why I don't come back home to visit everyone. She said, "Oh everyone has his number. No one blames you." And that was nice.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 06:47PM

I remember you! I came onboard around 2007, so you must have still been posting at that time.

What a mess. I think you were completely justified, and even restrained, in what you said to your dad. As for your mom, she knows exactly who she married. Not much you can do there. Perhaps when your dad passes (if he does so before your mom,) you can help her to untangle her situation at that time, if you and she so desire.

I'm going to guess that the first time your mom left the hospital, it was AMA (against medical advice.) I can't see the hospital kicking her out the next day after major surgery. My guess is she and your dad decided to leave for reasons of their own (perhaps financial reasons.)

Let us know how things go. <3

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Posted by: sbg ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 07:15PM

I’ll say (at least for a hysterectomy) it depends on how the surgery is performed. I was home from mine 7 hours after I left to go to the hospital. The bladder repair would be an additional complication I didn’t have. Of course I was “only” 66 at the time, but if they can perform the surgery with a laperoscopy they can and will release you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2023 07:15PM by sbg.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 06:51PM

Hi Punky. It's nice to "see" you again here.

What a mess they are. That call you made was a classic!

Things are probably going to get worse, considering their age and financial situation. Your sister is going to feel conflicted. I don't have advice, but I'm mostly glad you reached the IDGF stage for your sake.

It sound like your mom is past the stage where she can do much about Mr. Anus. Maybe she feels that him being the Branch President makes up for his treatment of her. It's another example of the "family" church at work!

Good luck. For your sanity, I think it's a good thing you don't live near them.

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Posted by: punkysdilemma2023 ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 08:10PM

Aw. Nice to see a familiar name. Several in fact. Hi!

Yes, it's downhill from here.

The whole situation is so bizarre, and I can't help wondering if there are financial shenanigans going on with tithes/offerings, debt, etc.

I cringe to even bring it up, and I don't think I want to know. But each really crazy situation with him involved being at church (to do tithing settlement? one story seemed to involve bills at church) to pay bills at home (which took all day, which my sister and I thought was odd), and these weird credit cards, car sales, and insurance issues with this weird guy they took in.

You know the roach you see is nothing compared to the ones you don't...I don't think I want to know.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 08:32PM

You've got his number. There probably is something fishy going on. With him "helping" random people, there's no telling how he might justify shenanigans in his mind. Mr. Anus is a red flag in multiple ways.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 06:57PM

I remember you fondly, PD. You were always thoughtful.

Your situation sounds terrible and it seems that you've done the right thing. It is so difficult to make decisions in your own and your nuclear family's interests when the emotions of childhood family erupt.

Best of luck.

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Posted by: adamisfree2006 ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 08:01PM

Punky I remember you from my early days on this board starting in 2005. So sorry to hear of the continuing issues you have had. Although my TBM parents have chilled over the last 17-18 years, I still have the TBM MIL to contend with.
Sending good vibes your way.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 08:03PM

I knew some men in the ward I grew up in that I suspected were abusive in the manner your father is. Thankfully my father was the opposite. Supportive and loving. I bet a non Mormon psychologist could come up with name for parental abuse related to religious zealotry.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 12, 2023 08:09PM

> I bet a non-Mormon psychologist could
> come up with a name for parental abuse
> related to religious zealotry.


I thought Glen Campbell sang about them in his hit song, Rich Utah Lineman . . .

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: December 13, 2023 03:40AM

Hey, Punky, I remember you and always found your posts interesting, although sometimes recounting what you rightly call terrible abuse. I'm glad you seem to have handled the whole unfortunate situation with humanity and reason, while protecting yourself as far as possible.

All the best to you

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: punkysdilemma2023 ( )
Date: December 13, 2023 01:07PM

My father's sister (nevermo aunt) and I checked in today.

Apparently my parents were taking in several people from church over the last couple of years, including an aggressive teen with severe mental illness and psychosis that they eventually took to the state hospital.

The details get crazier the more we all compare notes.

And to think...I had to stop my dad from kicking out my teen brother for declining to go to church.

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Posted by: devoted ( )
Date: December 13, 2023 02:24PM

I'm guessing he was paid by the church to host the people and he was not paid to house his own children. So you can see where you all stand with the anus.

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Posted by: punkysdilemma2023 ( )
Date: December 13, 2023 03:39PM

I can't believe I'm asking this question...but does the church *pay* people to house others?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 13, 2023 03:42PM

Maybe it wasn't the church?

Maybe he found some agency in county or state government that was paying 'group home' money?

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: December 13, 2023 04:14PM

Yikes. That sounds problematic on several levels. There HAS to be some kind of financial impact (mostly bad) for them to do that. Bishop storehouse food at the very least might be involved.

I know of two instances when LDS families tried to "help" relatives of mine by taking them in. Both turned out badly. They tried to handle things themselves that should not involve the church.

Why couldn't they be content fostering rescue cats instead!

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