Break cog dis, or 2 beliefs being held at the same time?

This term was brought up during class. So I looked it up on Wikipedia, and here in the definition, is what Mormons do.

Citation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Wiki says:

In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance is the perception of contradictory information and the mental toll of it. Relevant items of information include a person's actions, feelings, ideas, beliefs, values, and things in the environment.

Cognitive dissonance is typically experienced as psychological stress when persons participate in an action that goes against one or more of those things.[1] According to this theory, when two actions or ideas are not psychologically consistent with each other, people do all in their power to change them until they become consistent.

The discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein the individual tries to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.

I have found that my brain freely accepts misinformation now. But can cog dis exist also, if the brain breaks? In my case it did.

What happened to you all when the cog dis broke your view of Mormonism?

BTW, I hope that my therapist can answer this too. Instead of other subjects, I am going to try to work on this.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2023 12:45PM by lousyleper.

I guess you just learn to recognize it for what it is. We all have it to some extent. It's part of being human. When we recognize it in ourselves, the tricky part is making an effort to analyze it.

I thought it was interesting how it was brought up in class. I'd have to bring it up (since it was a video). It's just hard, because even after the break from Moism I retained the entire text of the endowment in my head, but several parts are still there. Those parts are hard to remove.

Like for example, I still remember my new name, and my ex's name. it was a tight belief. Because I can't release ' Brother Lousyleper, having authority, I give you a new name, which you will never divulge nor forget, but shall be given in a place hereafter.'

See, this is the cog dis at work. But I try to destroy it. But then I think about what I would have had if I was not Mormon I probably would have been single for a good long while, and I would not have had my kids.

So, it's correct that all our experiences shape who we are. I need to remember that. I need to get the endowment out of my head.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2023 01:06PM by lousyleper.

You can reprogram your brain by doing daily deep meditations. This is a technique used by some therapists who treat people who are dealing with a scattered mind caused multiple sources of stress.

Go find a nice quiet place you can be alone and it needs to be a place you can keep going to every day. One person used the car inside the garage.

Find your special place and focus that you are in this wonderful place full of light inhale the light through your nose focusing on how wonderful it is and exhale black smoke through your mouth. The black smoke is all the negative baggage you have been dealing with.

Inhale the light and exhale the smoke until you start to feel consumed by the light.

Once you feel good focus as intently as you can on the most positive thoughts you can imagine. Focus on these thoughts intently for a few minutes. You can even do it longer if you have time.

Try this for two weeks and you should start to feel better. Also what is key is to keep the negative thoughts out of your head. Focus on something else. Life is too short to focus on the negative and so focus on the positive. Go do something different that takes your mind out of that place that makes you angry or depressed.

But I never meditated before. I will have to find a quiet place here in the house, since my dad shuffles back and forth upstairs and downstairs.

I think I will stay in my room for a while in the morning, so I can try this.

Thank you!

Or just get out and golf two or three times a week for thirty years...

The quiet (mostly) desperation regarding why you can't get your body to do exactly what you want it to will hollow out your soul and eat your liver...

Nah, just kidding.  Golf is a metaphor for life: you never get what you expect, things happen that can't be explained and at least you tried.

If at all possible, I would stay on the driving range, and practice!!

Cognitive dissonance, as well as logical fallacies, are part of the human condition. Their existences are what leads me to recognize (and I say this at the risk of summoning the simultaneously dead and alive) that were not that far distant from chimpanzees.

Awareness of their existences is the first step. Combining awareness and introspection is the next. This is a skill developed over time and the benefits include fewer clouds and cobwebs in your brain, and an odd feeling of self loathing as you tell yourself, "I can't believe I used to believe that."

Don't let that second thing bother you. It's a sign of progress.

Pardon the "were". Please mentally insert the correct apostrophe.

Second all that. I think of it as sorting--which you have to do till the day you die, but hopefully do end up with the "fewer clouds and cobwebs" as you get better at it.

The other thing that comes to mind is that old song (which I hate) that says you have to "pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again." But don't expect to do it perfect this time either, haha.

to the 6K timeline. I thought it was not possible. I figured it this way, since I believed the evolutionary tangent.

I figured that dinosaurs existed on this planet. And our species went through all sorts of stages of development. When Neanderthals came along during this time (by then I believed, it was still too few million years for the 'hunch' in their backs) to stabilize into normal muscles in your upper back, thus causing neck and head stabilization.

I believed that Adam and Eve came from all that development and time. And there were tons of Homo Sapiens. Not the 6000 years after. I let the question devolve into nothing, eventually.

I was in a Bio 101 class when I learned of evolutionary theory. It was the thing that made sense to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2023 04:57PM by lousyleper.

I can actually see Tom Cruise in my kitchen making a fruitcake. They are good, even though they are really candy oriented.

After reading many experiences and questions presented by others, my discovery that all was not well in Zion went better than most.

When I encounter something that does not make sense or is contrary. I move to the logical side, and walk away from the belief\emotional side. Yes, it does annoy and bother me at times, but I know that eventually I will get over it.

IDK, its just been easy for me to turn around and walk away. And if you give me grief, then I will turn around and walk away and you will never hear from me again. I have always had that knack of just walking away from things I no longer have any use for.

What broke the cognitive dissonance for me was my black and white thinking tripping over itself.

For me, my obedience, devotion, and love were not free. It wasn't just given away to any ole pal spouting any ole thing. I gave this subservience willingly to the prophets and apostles because I trusted them wholeheartedly to be literally representatives for Christ and God on this earth. When you're in the cult, you deny that we worshipped prophets or Joseph Smith, but really, my view of the prophets was that they couldn't be mere men. They were as close to Jesus tier as any mortal could get. It was a MAJOR contradiction in my mind to think of these holy men being able to sin the way you and I sin and still be worthy enough to talk face to face to god and be his mouthpiece for us.

So, I watched a video, "What Mormon missionaries won't tell you" by Jimmy Snow, Mr. Athiest himself, and my disdain and flippancy soon turned into concern and panic. Because he was going to the church website (our official source, the ONLY source we were told to trust on the internet) and reading the Gospel Topics Essays. I found them there myself too. And none of it was stuff I had been taught in church lessons, in fact, contradicted a lot of the things I was taught. I had TAUGHT lessons from teacher manuals in church, and none of this crap was in there.

I needed to confront the fact that these holy men had lied to me and hid things from me. Which is antithema to the very concept of god being the god of light and truth. That's what broke my cognitive dissonance. After about 2-3 months after my shelf break, I became atheist but the effects lingered for me for at least a year and some change, where I was occasionally having whispery doubts in my mind "what if...I've been misled? What if I followed Satan out?" But I never backslid because I kept coming back to it over and over and over again: they lied, they lied, they LIED. They could not pay the agreed upon price for my blind devotion, obedience, and reverence once that flaw was revealed.

It took me many years to find out that people are merely human, and that the majority are not any more spiritually developed than you or I. As for the Mormon leadership, IMO their gift is for running a large organization, but I've seen very, very little coming out of their collective mouths that has impressed me in terms of spirituality.

But another thing that I discovered is that many people need heroes. They need people that they can put on pedestals and look up to. And if you have the temerity to point out that these emperors "have no clothes," then those very same people will not believe you and will go into vigorous denial, even in the face of irrefutable facts. They need to have heroes that badly. It's probably why Christianity is so successful, with Jesus being the ultimate hero. If we knew the real, historical Jesus (assuming that he existed as a distinct individual,) we would probably find that he was a mixed bag, like every other human who has walked the Earth.

I agree. It's difficult to read through rose colored glasses at what you believe because it was a huge part of your life. The decision to leave was difficult, if not on the plane of unacceptable.

When everything fell apart, it was gradual. It took me months to try to reconcile information. But I couldn't, It was staring at a plank that made me want to run back, and close the door.

Decisions like this are irreversible. Seeing the real data made everything I had done, seem like wasted time. Going to the temple, church and everything, was just hard to accept,

Seeing text from the Tanner's made it questionable, hearing from a trusted coworker, speaking and pleading to just stay in, or bad things will happen.

I stared at the plank with smooth wood. The bolts holding the plank, looked like they were interesting. I looked closer and found symbols from the questions I made. I could see the grains embedded in the wood, Would I be able to swim, or would I drown.

I walked on the plank, closed my eyes, spread my arms, feeling very strongly that it was a test of faith, and stepped off......



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2023 12:14PM by lousyleper.

I don't think being in Mormonism allowed me to view the leadership as human and flawed. You can't. With everything they ask of the membership, my whole life planned around an "I know" testimony, my marriage, my desires and aspirations, who I feel safe to define myself as, my money, etc. Every year, twice a year, they get me hanging on their every word, as a member.

With that devotion and unyielding surety of purpose, I cannot afford an "oopsie! We got this wrong!" or an "oopsie! We forgot to tell you that things really happened like this." I always took the caveat of "if any of the apostles or prophets were to lead us astray, they would be removed from the position before they got the chance" VERY seriously. It was only after I left that they started saying, "If you follow everything you're told by leadership, even bishops, and later it is revealed to be wrong, you won't be held accountable for those choices; it's the obedience that counts". But if they had while I was in, I wouldn't be able to swallow it. I NEEDED them to be more sure than me that the path I walked was right, otherwise I might as well just trust my own judgement in every situation.

Which is how I live now.

I understand where you are coming from. When I felt it was time to leave, my brain came out of atrophy after a bit, and little by little, I was able to learn that I would not die from questioning my bishop, or stakee presidency.

I had a hard thing for me to do, but the relief I have felt since is profound.

I started to question Catholic teachings in my early teens. I started to feel comfortable using my own judgment. But IMO most Catholics do not treat the Pope with the same degree of unquestioning obedience that Mormons treat their leaders.

It took decades to fully divest myself of Catholic-induced guilt, however. That's how deep the indoctrination runs. With Mormonism, I think it's worse.

My way out began with a question. My wife did not know what the loop was on the temple clothing was. What it symbolized. It was practically small enough to almost be unnoticeable, since the bishop, stake presidency, and not even the temple president knew. My shelf started building at that point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2023 03:25PM by lousyleper.

and with my gay boyfriend/eventual husband and the leaders, etc., and all that went on there, then the temple marriage, then a set of twins, then he left when they were 10, I really didn't have time to think about it much. I finally completely quit attending when the bishop told me my husband would be one of the next bishops (my "husband" now says he thinks he was trying to get me to go back to church more--my husband was ex. sec. and cheating with men).

I went immediately inactive as I knew they wouldn't call him as a bishop if his wife wasn't active. Then he went inactive when he was released. He wanted to go tell the bishop and just be done with it, but I refused to let him. I said I'd never go to leaders again about this issue.

And I realized when I've been on this board for all these years that I didn't have time to deal with cognitive dissonance. I didn't worry about it. I had enough other stuff. And it went away.

It has been 30 years since I took my kids out of the church. My son was hospitalized with meningitis 1-1/2 years ago and life flighted. My boss said that he could come and give him a blessing if I would like. I said my aunt and uncle live close to the hospital he was in and I'd get them to take care of it. I thought for a slight second that maybe I'd let them do it as I was willing to take any help at all and I even said out loud, I"ll go back to church if he lives." And I knew IMMEDIATELY that that was never going to happen and it didn't need to happen.

We have neighbors who have tried to get me to go back for peace and I told them I found peace at my dad's farm the day before. She has offered to have her husband give us all blessings and I turned them down.

Blessings didn't do a damn thing for me when dealing with leaders and finding out the guy I was dating was gay. My dad wasn't into doing blessings. He wasn't that active. He hated it when they asked him to go help give a blessing. He was just a down to earth farmer who cussed and chewed tobacco and drank alcohol. He was the most honest guy you'd ever meet.

So as someone told me once--"Step away from the vehicle." Don't think about it. That is possible. You have so much else going on in your life. Just concentrate on your education, etc. It will eventually go away. You've been indoctrinated.

I saw a red flashing light around your last sentence. Maybe I am having rebound of the entire free LDS experience, but I consider my experience with my kids as non-denominational since they did not beg me to come back to the church.

My superego is processing it again, with new information. The experience happened within my context, what I knew at the time.

No heavenly beings, choirs of angels. It was just him and me. While I cried at his presence, no one even noticed. My mom came in 3 times, but she didn't register me crying, or anything. It was like my son and I were fundamentally different. Who knows if it was all psychological in origin. It doesn't match though.

I have belief that my son's are alright. Is that indoctrination, or something else? He was there, but in a type of consciousness. No singing, nothing, it was just us talking like two old friends that meet on a street corner in surprise. But I had so much going on, I wasn't thinking about him, nor the other two. Maybe my mind was thinking about him.

It may have been the mere suggestion of writing something sparked him to come. It was no accident. Maybe my mind was trying to have him or a memory of him come to me. On a conscious level. Because I could not see him, but his touch triggered the crying.

It reminds me of the movie 'Contact'. Where the consciousness, assumed the main character's dad. They talked for a short time, before she splashed into the ocean. She was asked if it was real. The theologian believed it, and those minutes could not be accounted for.

Maybe it was in fact God, letting me know it was going to be Ok

No, I do not believe in aliens.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2023 07:37PM by lousyleper.

I am exhausted. I need to rest. That post physically exhausted me. Bl

I'm sorry I offended you all. It appears I am still trapped to a certain degree. My beliefs are my own. I don't know what to say, except, I'm sorry.

Sorry for what? You're fine. Just because people don't respond or respond immediately to a post doesn't mean that you are unwelcome. Sometimes people here are just listening. We know that you've been through a lot.

I'm over it now.