Hi everyone, I have not been on the RfM for a while. And I apologize if this subject has been covered recently. I was a reader and sometimes poster since 1996, but have not been on here recently or frequently.

I have the opportunity to be become a life coach, and the niche I thought of is Exmormon Obesity Recovery. I, myself, am an exmormon who is recovering from obesity and I just think there's a lot of others out there that just aren't getting the help they need to get over this.

I think there's a whole subset of situations that I'm not sure are covered in your basic weight loss coaching situation. In combination with the go-gillion dollar weight loss industry, there's no real help for someone with deep seated issues of self esteem, self loathing, repressed sexuality, the stress of raising a boat load of kids and the post partum depression that comes with that, the whole issue with temple marriage, and a host of other issues.

I wanted to gage the opinions of you all here and see if this is something you would like to see more about.

I wanted to ask if you all think that obesity is prevalent in mormons and exmormons, and if you think there's enough help out there for people who suffer from this giant self esteem issue?

Thank you for any opinions you can give! applesauce

"Children should be obscene, not obese..." has been my life's guiding principle since before I could hold an ice cream scoop.

We are now not to "body-shame", which is good. But obesity is very unfortunate, and people should see how bad it is. It shortens one's life upon the earth. It also physically harms, particularly the skeleton and its joints. It causes heart attack, cancer, and stroke, among many other maladies.

I've had bishops who weighed 300+ pounds (for Brits, that's over 21 stone, if one is wont to use boulders to compute one's weight for no particular reason, but does make 300 pounds look somewhat better), stand at the pulpit and bang on about the Word of Wisdom and health. I've been invited to dinner at Mormon homes, where it was a never-ending mash-up of one fattening dish (Mmm. Funeral potatoes!) after another, washed down with whole cream milk, then followed up with ice cream.

The end result is Mormons using the WoW as a cudgel to gauge a person's worthiness, but only talking about tea, coffee, and alcohol; actually living the WoW tenets is totally unnecessary.

I use to think the British use of stones in reference to weight somehow related to the weight of the Curling stone. But a Curling stone is 2 to 3 times heavier.
Oh well

In the medieval period the Germanic countries, including England, had a wide range of "stones," which were polished rocks that were put on scale to measure items on the other.

The system was chaotic, with a stone for one commodity weighing perhaps three pounds and that for another weighing 10 or 14 or 20 or more. So you had to know whether you were measuring pork or wheat or body weight in order to know what a "stone" meant. And the set weights differed from country to country, from city to city, and even from village to village.

Over the centuries governments moved towards standardization; in England the process was accelerated by the transition to metric calculations. 14 pounds per stone of body weight was the exception that persisted through the reforms. The United States avoided this mess by initiating the standardization process earlier and more consistently than many other Germanic countries.

Then again, as evidenced by stillanon's hilarious SNL clip, the US has kept enough of the strange old English measurements to render it the outlier with the bizarre standards today.

Arithmetic textbooks from the early 1700s and before contained literally hundreds of pages of conversion factors between things like the Flemish ell versus the English ell. The US gallon and Imperial gallon are still different (I think).

The US did go metric on its currency (no shillings, pence and pounds), and very nearly went metric on everything else, and if Europe had converted 5 or 10 years earlier, the US might well have gone along.

Cigarettes have always been measured in metric in the US because the first cigarette rolling machines were manufactured in France. If you remember Benson and Hedges 100s, they were so-named because they were 100 mm long.

Depends on your background. If you have no official qualifications in mental health, social work or recovery counseling, and also have no professional qualifications in nutrition,health and a deep understanding of obesity comorbidity, I think you'd be biting off more than you can chew in this niche.

If it were me, I'd design a program for those who have deep self loathing and thus low self esteem. Some issue that keeps them isolated from life.

For instance, In the interest of helping your vision, I will share: I have this... friend. She is objectively average. Right in the middle of the healthy weight range for her height, and has at times been at the low end or even below. It's only at these times that she feels happy and has control over her life. Her life is spent in deep self loathing, not to mention a severe battle with control over everythin, including food. Starvation = ideal, complete control over life. Yet she's not so great at starvation or control over her life. This has riddled her with a life dictated by extreme OCD. Adding that to the self loathing, the obsessing on looking fat or bad or unkempt when going out, and just feeling weird because she can't see beyond her self loathing has effectively trapped her into a lonely reality where she'll never have another irl friend or a boyfriend/life partner, and really doesn't plan to live to a long age.

Help the self loathers, they may be too thin, so normal they pass, obese, have body imperfections that cause the self loathing and repression.

There are tons of programs for the strictly obese. There's nothing for the people who nobody but themselves see the factors for their self-loathing, but they do, and those things have won and they're not living. That's not to say the super morbidly obese wouldn't be candidates for such program, it's just not the main inclusive indicator.

Excellent post, very important.


ETA: "Self-loathing" might not be the best term for the phenomenon given that body image is what we are really talking about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2024 01:56AM by Lot's Wife.

...the substance of your post and LW's response, I think it should be noted that we now know that there is a genetic factor to obesity as well as an eating one. So yes, I would focus more on the possible depression that follows after exiting Mormonism (if there is a way to gauge that) over obesity, especially if other members of the obeseperson's family are also obese.

What I tell my kids is to eat well and exercise and that whatever results from that is exactly what should be. There are thousands of types of "beauty" and no two are alike.

That said, Mormonism does seem to lead to obesity and the related cluster of health problems. My view, like yours, is that obesity should not be hit head on. For genetics, culture, and psychology play major roles in the condition. Of those three factors, psychology is the one most likely to produce improvement within the range rendered possible by biology and culture.

Rather than increase the pressures that lead to eating disorders, therefore, it makes more sense to let experts take the lead in addressing psychological and cultural problems. Leaving Mormonism may start the long process of deculturalization, but the psychic issues are at least as intractable.

That's why I decided to change my post to add the caveat about "self-loathing" and similar pejorative words. For some people they make the problem worse.

To paraphrase Freddie Mercury, "too much fat will kill you." It will also destroy your joints/spine and inhibit your breathing. I do not think we should all be walking skeletons but we shouldn't call genuine health based critiques of obesity "fat shaming". Nothing wrong with a bit if plumpness. A lot wrong with having a dangerous BMI.

Obesity is a major problem in many Mormon congregations. I put it down to the high carb/starch diet many of them eat. Lower the carbs and eat proper meat (i.e. not heavily processed). Don't eat late at night. Try genuine fasting on alternate days (without heading into anorexia territory.)

Oh crap. I’m reading your response while eating a second bowl of ice cream. It’s 11:13 pm. Shoot me now…

Obesity is the biggest killer in the US. Congratulations on realizing you needed to do something and got to work. Losing weight begins with knowing what to do. We have been given a lot of bad nutrition information over the years. It starts with how you eat. If your eating habits are bad no amount of exercise will make up for it. Exercise, sleep, learning how to better deal with pressure ect… are all part of the gig. Most importantly is having the patience and discipline to stick with your routine and eventually enjoy the results.

II avoid taking the sacrament because I’m on a keto diet and avoid carbs.

I've spent almost all of my career teaching in poor, urban schools. Many neighborhoods in cities are "food deserts" where there are no grocery stores available. Instead, the neighborhood is often dependent on the fried food offerings of the corner bodega.

Seeing the poor food choices, I would teach my students a unit on nutrition every year. They understood the concept of a balanced, healthy diet, but putting it into practice was another matter altogether. It is very difficult to combat ingrained family habits. Even after being taught about proper nutrition, I would see students showing up to school with a bag of chips and a soda, calling it "breakfast" (I would confiscate it for the day, and send them to the cafeteria for a real breakfast.)

What did help was the fresh fruit program that schools sometimes offer. There were years when my students got twice weekly deliveries of fruit snacks. It was a real delight to see students sample (and like) fresh fruits that they had never eaten before -- blueberries, grapefruit, kiwi, tangelos, pineapple, etc. I think that program will definitely have long-lasting benefits.

Finally, whatever your opinion of Michelle Obama politically, I must say that she did an outstanding job of spearheading reforms in the nutrition of school lunch menus. For instance, including fresh salads and salad bars, especially in poverty-stricken schools, is due to her efforts, as is the inclusion of whole grains, etc.

If only Heavenly Father would update the WoW and make sugar as big a no no as tobacco. Although I suspect most people would give up their Temple Recommends before they gave up their plethora of sugary treats, not to mention the salty carby snacks.

I saw an "expert" on TV who seemed to be shilling for the Lilly company and their new weight loss drug and he claimed that the obesity problem in America has nothing to do with will power. That people "can't help it"--- puts them on the same level as a serial killer.

The weight loss drugs cut appetite. They do what will power and a good dose of self esteem which fuels will power should be doing. Which means the drugs prove that it is about will power--with some exceptions.

I was raised in Mormon Sugarland. I have worked hard in my life to harness my cravings that were always even stronger than my testimony. I have sat and eaten an entire German Chocolate cake one piece at a time one after the other.. Then, I wanted to go to the bakery and get another one. Not kidding. I know how easy it is to slip into that.

I was always too active and too vain to get fat. I realized early on that it wasn't possible for me to be over-weight and happy. They were mutually exclusive. I worked very hard on rethinking my relationship with food. That was key. Will power is necessary but can't do it alone. You have to develop your own strategies. Following the diet plans of others is like following someone else's plan for how to get to heaven.

There is no great secret. You have to do the hard work and you have to do the smart work.

If Mormons were only half as afraid of a Big Gulp as they are of coffee.

> I have sat and eaten an
> entire German Chocolate
> cake one piece at a time


. . . Rookie



Edited to add the quotation I was looking for:

"Give me a spoon big enough and I will eat the world!"

                      --Gladys Lot, at her Quinceñera



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2024 06:27PM by elderolddog.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH hahahahahah snort and Ha.

Shrive me, padre.

I was not blessed with high metabolism. I can look at a piece of chocolate cake and gain a pound. Carbs put me a food coma. A messy divorce put me in a tailspin where I got to over 250 lbs.

My wife is very savvy when it comes to nutrition. When we started dating, I just ate what she ate and dropped 60 lbs effortlessly. Today, I drink lots of water, black coffee only, and sometimes tea - straight, no milk or sugar. Very low carb lifestyle, very little sugar, and a diet that works for me (protein and green, leafy veggies).

Living in a walking city. we don't have a car, and rarely take a taxi. If it's 30 min on foot, we walk. We've even walked an hour to get home after dinner just to get some extra steps in. I go to the gym 2 or 3 times a week. That means stationary bicycle (long enough to watch an episode of my favorite show on Netflix - 45-60 min) and weights.

Living far from family is not always easy. We get along very well. But family dinners usually meant heavy food, massive desserts, and lots of sitting around. Getting a coffee and taking a walk is more my style.

As an amateur photographer, going out to take pictures is more like 8 hours of rucking. My camera bag is very heavy.

I spent part of the day with a friend who was visiting from the US recently. Here are some things I noticed. He's overweight. We walked around Tokyo for about an hour. He was exhausted. I was just getting started. He should have been running me into the ground because he's 10 years younger.

The difference became clear when we stopped at the convenience store. He got a sweetened, fruit-flavored drink. I got water. We went to Starbucks. He got a frap. I got a black coffee.

Then he started to ask me how I lost weight and how I keep in shape. We talked about some things I learned from podcasts; regular exercise, eating around the perimeter of the grocery store (avoiding packaged, processed foods), cold showers, fresh air, sunlight, and grounding. That's where he stopped me. "Oh, come on. Grounding? That hippy nonsense!" (His language was more colorful than that.)

Maybe I'm doing it all wrong. Maybe I'm the idiot. But if you look at us side by side, you'd guess that he's the one that's 10 years older. He followed up by saying that when he gets back to the US, he's going to see a doctor about testosterone replacement therapy.

The biggest change I've made recently is to add cold showers to my daily routine. I tried it once a year or so ago, and got a headache. I hated it. Then I heard a guy on a podcast talking about the benefits of doing a cold plunge, and decided that a cold shower was the best I can do right now. So now it's a part of my daily routine. In the beginning 30 seconds was max, which is up to 3 minutes now.

A week after I started, my wife was giving me a hug and said, "You feel skinnier." Not to mention obvious improvement in wellbeing make the cold showers worth it.

It's not just about lifespan, it's about healspan for me.

So those are some things I've learned by losing 60 lbs and then keeping it off for 9 years. It's a process. Not everybody is willing to do what it takes. And if you're not lucky enough to live in a walking city, it's hard to get those steps in. Not everybody has a hobby that is so fun that they can walk 20,000 steps in a day and not even realize it. And not everybody is going to have a partner that is meticulous about nutrition.

I'm also unapologetic about enjoying steak. It's not for everybody.

Another thing I've learned is to take what works from people who show results, and not worry about whether it's cool or not.

Here in the US there's four tiers of nova-1 nova-2 (good foods), nova-3 and nova-4 (mostly) processed foods, and only 20% in grocery stores are tier 1 and 2 which is sad.

No big wonder how we ended up where we are right now.

Tom Hanks lived on apples and black coffee while dropping an insane amount of weight for the filming of Castaway. I tried it myself to lose my gut and it worked like a charm.

Of course, keeping the weight off is another matter.

Make weight loss a project, with planning and tracking just like any other project. Include habit changes in the project and you should end up with a new you. One that will live a good while longer.

If you are coaching Mormons, food is the only drug they are allowed to have. But it's still used as a drug. As Gabor Mate says, don't ask why the addiction, ask why the pain.

Mormons are taught perfection. Nothing is ever enough. Well guess what, you were always enough and all of that work you put into being good enough was a complete waste of time. You were running on the church's hamster wheel.

However, the fact that you were so devoted to such a banal organization says something about your ability to commit. Now just commit to yourself.

You use a lot of psychology language. I used to be enamored with psychology myself, but it is far from a real science. It's more like a religion with a few scientific tools like FMRI. None of the psychologists I am familiar with are people I would like to get counseling from.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2024 05:49AM by bradley.

I've always wondered about the life coach business, can you make a living at it? Long time ago, I had a business colleague whose wife was a weight life coach. I asked her about losing weight and she explained, "you don't lose weight, you release it". Hmmm

I prefer bradley's formulation: don't ask why the addiction, ask why the pain. Put that way the idea sounds more reasonable and leads to more actionable conclusions.

To wit, go see a shrink rather than a life coach.

To me, a "life coach" is either a credentialed professional (psychologist, counselor, social worker, etc.) or a good friend or relative with a listening ear and acres of common sense.

An acquaintance of mine was a teacher who tried to get into life-coaching, and it didn't work out for her.

I'm skeptical of most life coaches. Probably the best ones are the ones that don't call themselves such.

I've been obese most of my adult life. It's complicated.

I believe you, Ron. I'm maybe 30+ lbs. over what I should be, and my family will confirm that I'm a small eater. I'm always the last to finish a meal, and I get a take-home box from any restaurant.

I've also come to the conclusion from having watched my diabetic cat for many years that extra weight is a consequence of diabetes, and not a cause. JMO.

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been obese most of my adult life. It's
> complicated.

It's easier to get that way than to lose it.

Scientists are now finding that a lot of being overweight is based on complex body processes. That's why diabetes drugs such as Ozempic and Wegovy (when used under strict supervision by your personal physician) can help many non-diabetics to lose weight. The drugs change your body chemistry.

I was diagnosed at age 11 with a condition that required a prescription for 2 powerful drugs that materially changed my metabolism. The diagnosis was flawed, turns out but I paid the price.

Now I know what Fat of the Land means

A lot of church members have Polynesian ancestry which is not a good combination. Polynesians put on weight easily.

Try living in Northern States with long winters. Obesity is the norm. Along with high alcohol consumption.

Congratulations on your decision to be a life coach, applesauce, that’s an interesting niche and I wish you well.

I’m a certified mindset and life coach and I considered including leaving and recovering from Mormonism in my coaching offer but instead am focusing on overcoming self-doubt and increasing clarity, courage and confidence.

I totally understand people who are doubtful of life coaching but I’ve seen it have a lasting, positive and even life-changing affect in clients’ lives.

I’m also a supporter and advocate (and have experienced the benefits of) therapy, counselling, or seeing a psychologist.

Whereas therapy focuses on the repair and recovery of past and current thoughts/experiences/behaviours that may want to be addressed, coaching assumes the client is ready to move forward.

They’re different modalities and I believe both can be valuable at the right time in a person’s life.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2024 03:25PM by Claire Ferguson Benson.