There have been at least two talks by two separate GAs on the evils of 'individualism' in the past couple of years. And they did not qualify the term, describing exactly what type of individualism they were talking about. I think one came from Bro. Andersen. Another was given at a talk at BYU by one of the Q12.

One of these was also Oaks. It angers me that, among the rest of his alignment of priorities, he chose to criticize *individualism* in a GC talk. Truly unbelievable. Where is his GC talk criticizing collectivism?? I truly do not think we have an individualism problem in society, yet THAT is what he chose to condemn. Collectivism is evil. Period. But we're all about it here in the LDS church, apparently. Follow Queen Nelson, stay in the ant hill.

"Collectivism is evil"

I heard that too. They taught us that while the gains of the New Deal were slowly being replaced by predatory capitalism. In America, only losses should be collective.

The church's teaches a kind of free agency authoritarianism. You can do as you are led by the spirit, subject to their approval.

The leaders taught that any member involved in any organization OUTSIDE of the church will eventually create a conflict that conspires against the teachings of God. Basically, these groups will lead members away from the truth.

I still remember hearing some specific groups- Red Cross, American Cancer Society, SPCA. I was shocked that the leaders thought these organizations were evil.

But I think the church leaders are so envious that members would rather donate their time (and money) to these charities rather than the church.

I volunteered in my youth for Red Cross and a local first aid/CPR community training. And these groups ALWAYS treated the volunteers like royalty. Free food, plenty of breaks.

Contrast that with fundraising for church scouting. The ward budget was 100 or 150. That didn't go very far in the 1980s. We had to sell baked goods in front of the local grocery store (until the bakery dept complained about loss of sales). The only time we were treated to food was when we brought our own monies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2024 10:07AM by messygoop.

It's the same thing with the Girl Scouts. Other churches sponsor Girl Scout troops (my local ELCA Lutheran church sponsored a GS troop when I was a child.) The GS organization tries to empower girls and teens. Can't have that in Mormonism! It might give the women ideas.

Turning a positive into a negative is their specialty. Especially since the best of humanity is the worst thing for their agenda.

Individualism is really self-reliance and they need you reliant on only them to make things work in their favor.

Love your moniker, BTW.

Both individualism and collectivism need to be qualified.

As someone who once related to Ayn Rand's version of individualism, I came to see it as extreme selfishness, devoid of concern for the environment, others, compassion, etc.

OTOH, escaping from the collectivism of of sheep-think of the church was the most rewarding and important thing I've accomplished.

We can speculate exactly why the church specializes in collective thinking to maintain power, control and order. However, the last thing we need is a bunch of Ammon Bundy types running around who fancy themselves so "independent" that there is no cooperation or consideration for others.

It's a money thing. The church has groups of people (mostly relatives earning a salary) who are constantly looking for ways to cut costs in the LDS organization.

A good border collie can handle a bunch of sheep and is cost effective. Sheep are then slaughtered and turned into income.

Now a group of dogs and/or cats is a different story. Border collies can't do that job. In the end there is no income from dead dogs only the cost of food and individual care for each animal. And then someone has to do poop clean up.

So if making money is your objective, it is better to invest in sheep. They can also feed off government land.

It's like the Ottoman Empire. They used to have a jizya tax on non-Muslims to try and force them to convert. The only problem is that many did not convert and it turned into a profitable tax base. The Ottomans needed a number of non-Muslims to tax and raid for Janissaries.

You're wrong on the tax.

The tax was to compensate the state for the military service that Jews and Christians were not required to provide. It wasn't to force them to convert. To the contrary, Jews and Christians rose high in the government hierarchy and even served as prime minister.

The Ottomans treated the People of the Book far better than Christian Europe treated Jews and Muslims.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're wrong on the tax.
>
> The tax was to compensate the state for the
> military service that Jews and Christians were not
> required to provide. It wasn't to force them to
> convert. To the contrary, Jews and Christians
> rose high in the government hierarchy and even
> served as prime minister.

Yeah, as eunuchs. Literally and metaphorically. Nothing has changed in that respect

Would it be futile to expect you to provide evidence for your assertions?

1) Jews and Christians were systemically castrated?

2) The rules that applied to them in government service differed from those that applied to Muslims.

Or are we supposed to accept your unevidenced assertions as true because of your status as Shah of Afghanistan?

When did TSCC ever support individual choice, except when you're joining it?

When I was a kid, the Mormons touted free agency. Now they just say agency. You have every right to serve, and no right to question.

I heard it all the time too.

The dictionary definition of Free Agent is:

"a person who does not have any commitments that restrict their actions."

Like, a sports player who is not bound by a contract and so is eligible to join any team.

No wonder you don't hear the word "free" anymore from them.

The rest of the English speaking world tends to say "free will", but you are not allowed to have a will in this church.

Cicular logic and yet that is the way so many Mos think.

Same with NASCAR drivers!

When one isn’t engaged with community > apathy;
Apathy > letting others make priorities & decisions without your inputs, without your information or feedback..

That’s how ChurchCo operates.