Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: jay ( )
Date: January 27, 2024 10:38PM

And if so, when did the vegan part start? I’ve heard the story of when Christianity began, but I’m trying to put my finger on the first vegan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2024 10:38PM by jay.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 27, 2024 11:11PM

The first vegan was a poor farmer in Anatolia. There were many of them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 27, 2024 11:19PM

Are there any christian vegetables ?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: jay ( )
Date: January 28, 2024 02:47AM

Affirmative

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 28, 2024 04:14AM

Where can I find the parable of the 10 vegans?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 28, 2024 03:45PM

I grew up in the Las Vegan 2nd Ward; I didn't know anyone from the Las Vegan 10th Ward.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: January 28, 2024 04:29AM

Actually, there are a lot of them. Orthodox Christians that follow their traditional calendar don't eat meat for periods of time. Because of this, in areas that have historically been OC they have developed recipes that are either vegan or can also be made as vegan dishes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6362887/#:~:text=The%20Holy%20Tradition%20(written%20and,dairy%20products%20and%20eggs%20are

"Orthodox Christian fasting (OF), which incorporates voluntary abstention from specific foods for 180-200 days per year, is an ancient ecclesiastical ordinance (1, 2). The Holy Tradition (written and oral) of the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church, while advising avoidance of olive oil, meat, fish, milk, and dairy products every Wednesday and Friday throughout the year, additionally includes four principal fasting periods per year when meat as well as dairy products and eggs are forbidden. These take place: 1) for a period of 40 days preceding Christmas, 2) for a period of 48 days preceding Easter (Lent), 3) for a variable period from 8 to 42 days, known as the Apostles’ Fast or the Fast of Peter and Paul, and 4) for a total of 15 days in August (Assumption of the Virgin Mary). Meanwhile, seafood such as shrimp, squid, cuttlefish, octopus, lobster, crab, and snails are allowed on all fasting days throughout the year (1, 2). It is of note that strict observance of OF relates not only to the avoidance of particular foods on specific days and time periods, but also to restrictions on the quantity of the permitted foods."

For instance, if you google Ukrainian vegan recipes You will find a ton. Borscht can be made with a variety of meats or vegan. Varenyky, dumplings, can be stuffed with potato, cheese, sauerkraut and other vegetables. In general they use a lot more beans. Oats in ways we don't in the US. Because of this, some just go 100% vegan year round :)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: jay ( )
Date: January 29, 2024 01:31AM

Do they take communion?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: February 03, 2024 12:09AM

My grandmother made us varenyky every Friday, generally either dry cottage cheese of sauerkraut/potato mix. A little bacon and sour cream, and life was good. Ah, memories.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: January 28, 2024 04:43AM

Some Seventh day Adventists are.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: unconventionalideas ( )
Date: January 28, 2024 11:44AM

I’ve been a vegetarian for around 30 years.

Was thinking it’s a bit annoying to give people a hard time about their dietary choices.

I’ve been the recipient of decades worth of unsolicited advice.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 28, 2024 12:55PM

> I have been the recipient of
> decades worth of unsolicited
> advice.


I get what you're saying.

It makes a mockery of the phrase,
"All you had to do was ask!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 28, 2024 03:41PM

How much do you know about vegetables? Would you like to know more?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: jay ( )
Date: January 29, 2024 01:34AM

You lost me —-

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 29, 2024 09:52PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anonynon ( )
Date: March 06, 2024 07:55PM

unconventionalideas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve been a vegetarian for around 30 years.
>
> Was thinking it’s a bit annoying to give people
> a hard time about their dietary choices.
>
> I’ve been the recipient of decades worth of
> unsolicited advice.


Same here! I don't know why people can't keep their opinions about what's on my plate to themselves. I never talk about it, if salad is the only thing I can eat at a family meal, I fill my plate with salad and happily eat it. If I'm at a restaurant and there's nothing vegetarian on the menu, I'll subtly say to the waiter "I'm vegetarian but I'm not picky, can I just have an entre plate of side dishes or vegetables"

It's not so bad now that vegetarianism and veganism are more common, but I don't eat fake meats but I do love "fancy grilled cheese" aka big Macs/whoppers w/o the meat and extra lettuce and tomato.

Back to the point, If I don't complain or preach about what others are eating why do they bother me? Some of my family members used to be desperate to pick fights as if I care what they are. (now some are vegans). I don't go around mocking people because they don't like broccoli or Brussels sprouts. None of my business!

(sorry for the rant, it's been simmering for 3 and a half decades)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 30, 2024 02:09AM

Isn’t he dead yet?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: February 02, 2024 07:55AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: kerri ( )
Date: February 02, 2024 10:45PM

Devout Seventh Day Adventists aspire to vegetarianism.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: February 03, 2024 12:28AM

The only Blue Zone (zones where people regularly live active lives to be 100yrs old) in America is a 7th Day Adventist community, Loma Linda,CA. Like most blue zones around the world, They have a vegetable based diet, are not sedentary, are integrated into the social fabric of their communities, have common faith that unites them. The only things they don’t share with other blue zones is they don’t drink alcohol and they don’t eat fish.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: February 04, 2024 01:28AM

Sub the peppers for onions, give me a dish of the sauce (béarnaise?) and I am in. You get to cook and do the dishes :)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 04, 2024 02:10AM

Yum!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: I ( )
Date: February 05, 2024 03:56AM

The first vegans didn't eat [with] Christians.

You can't put your finger on the first vegan.

They're no longer with us.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: + fries ( )
Date: February 05, 2024 06:22AM

Yes, they exist, I've met some.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: February 05, 2024 05:03PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: February 07, 2024 04:17PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: March 02, 2024 11:41PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: March 03, 2024 09:38AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Sisters_(agriculture)


The Three Sisters (Spanish: tres hermanas) are the three main agricultural crops of various indigenous peoples of Central and North America: squash, maize ("corn"), and climbing beans (typically tepary beans or common beans). In a technique known as companion planting, the maize and beans are often planted together in mounds formed by hilling soil around the base of the plants each year; squash is typically planted between the mounds. The cornstalk serves as a trellis for climbing beans, the beans fix nitrogen in their root nodules and stabilize the maize in high winds, and the wide leaves of the squash plant shade the ground, keeping the soil moist and helping prevent the establishment of weeds.

Indigenous peoples throughout North America cultivated different varieties of the Three Sisters, adapted to varying local environments. The individual crops and their use in polyculture originated in Mesoamerica, where squash was domesticated first, followed by maize and then beans, over a period of 5,000–6,500 years. European records from the sixteenth century describe highly productive Indigenous agriculture based on cultivation of the Three Sisters throughout what are now the Eastern United States and Canada, where the crops were used for both food and trade. Geographer Carl O. Sauer described the Three Sisters as "a symbiotic plant complex of North and Central America without an equal elsewhere".

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Caffiend nli ( )
Date: March 08, 2024 10:15AM

Interesting, but let's not overlook they also hunted.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: March 08, 2024 11:02AM

Almost all of the domesticated animals that modern humans bred after the Ice Age and the beginnings of agriculture come from central and southern Asia -- contrary to the fictional "Book Of Mormon."

Turkeys are the only domesticated food animals from the Americas that I know of.

#####################

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_vertebrates#Difference_from_taming

Domestication should not be confused with taming. Taming is the conditioned behavioral modification of a wild-born animal when its natural avoidance of humans is reduced and it accepts the presence of humans, but domestication is the permanent genetic modification of a bred lineage that leads to an inherited predisposition toward humans.[9][10][11] Certain animal species, and certain individuals within those species, make better candidates for domestication than others because they exhibit certain behavioral characteristics: (1) the size and organization of their social structure; (2) the availability and the degree of selectivity in their choice of mates; (3) the ease and speed with which the parents bond with their young, and the maturity and mobility of the young at birth; (4) the degree of flexibility in diet and habitat tolerance; and (5) responses to humans and new environments, including flight responses and reactivity to external stimuli.[12]: Fig 1 [13][14][15]

It is proposed that there were three major pathways that most animal domesticates followed into domestication: (1) commensals, adapted to a human niche (e.g., dogs, cats, fowl, possibly pigs); (2) animals sought for food and other byproducts (e.g., sheep, goats, cattle, water buffalo, yak, pig, reindeer, llama, alpaca, and turkey); and (3) targeted animals for draft and nonfood resources (e.g., horse, donkey, camel).[7][12][16][17][18][19][20][21][22] The dog was the first to be domesticated,[23][24] and was established across Eurasia before the end of the Late Pleistocene era, well before cultivation and before the domestication of other animals.[23] Unlike other domestic species which were primarily selected for production-related traits, dogs were initially selected for their behaviors.[25][26] The archaeological and genetic data suggest that long-term bidirectional gene flow between wild and domestic stocks – including donkeys, horses, New and Old World camelids, goats, sheep, and pigs – was common.[7][17] One study has concluded that human selection for domestic traits likely counteracted the homogenizing effect of gene flow from wild boars into pigs and created domestication islands in the genome. The same process may also apply to other domesticated animals. Some of the most commonly domesticated animals are cats and dogs.[27][28]



#####################

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anonynon ( )
Date: March 09, 2024 01:53PM

based on you posts seem to be extremely triggered by the concept of vegans and vegetarians, yet nobody here is advocating for the diet, nobody's asking or pressuring you to be one. It's a little over the top. If you like meat, eat it. For those who don't want to, accept it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: March 08, 2024 12:38PM

Vegetarianism, and veganism more so, is the exception to the rule. The issue is where, when, and whether meat and fish avoidance is based on some belief system or some idiosyncratic local situation.

Edit: getting back to the original thread, there is nothing about vegetarianism and veganism that contradicts or conflicts with Christian Scriptures, teachings and common practice: it's something permitted to, but not required of, Christianity. To do so is a personal decision, and should not be ecclesiastical. Thus, the Seventh Day Adventists engage in a lightly cultic practice in that members are strongly pressured to conform. But query them carefully, and they'll acknowledge it is not essential to a believer's salvation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2024 12:44PM by caffiend.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **  ********         **  **      **  **     ** 
 **     **  **     **        **  **  **  **  **     ** 
 **     **  **     **        **  **  **  **  **     ** 
 *********  **     **        **  **  **  **  **     ** 
 **     **  **     **  **    **  **  **  **  **     ** 
 **     **  **     **  **    **  **  **  **  **     ** 
 **     **  ********    ******    ***  ***    *******