Headline : "Idaho librarians contemplate leaving work–and the state–as a result of proposed legislation"


https://idahocapitalsun.com/briefs/after-governors-veto-last-year-idaho-library-materials-bill-is-back/

One of so many reasons I consider myself very lucky to be an early retiree nomad living outside of the country. The turmoil is not staring me in the face, and I am quite grateful for that.

How can it be determined what level of maturity & understanding are enough to allow s free choice of media access?

There’s the problem, so I support leaving individual choices up to parents until ? age.

But still the youth ‘children’ will share what’s available

The librarians want to leave, and the Ob-Gyns want to leave. You would think that your average Idaho resident could figure out that something is very wrong with the way things are going there.

>On Wednesday morning, the Idaho Legislature’s House State Affairs Committee introduced a new bill to
> allow community members to sue libraries if they provide “harmful materials” to minors, or materials >that include “nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, or sado-masochistic abuse.” Under the Legislature’s definition of “sexual
> conduct,” this includes “any act of homosexuality.”

This is being painted as being just about "acts of homosexuality" and homophobia but people haven't looked at the rest of this? Should children be given access to dungeon porn ("sado-masochistic abuse")? What possible justification is there for that?

Given that there has been an epidemic of sexual abuse in Mormon communities, why would children be given access to pornography?

Most of us don't hand out bomb making manuals to children either but normal people don't class that as ignorance.

I was first exposed to bona fide pornography at age seven. Some older children thought it would be funny to show it to us. This shouldn't have happened and I don't wish it to happen to young children today.

I learned the difference, and today porn doesn't bother me.

Keeping people in ignorance only makes things worse. Teaching kids about sex and biology doesn't turn them into perverts.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322774#:~:text=Mountain%20Dew%20does%20not%20kill,enough%20quantities%20to%20kill%20sperm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2024 11:03AM by anybody.

CP Wrote:
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> Most of us don't hand out bomb making manuals to
> children either but normal people don't class that
> as ignorance.
>
> I was first exposed to bona fide pornography at
> age seven. Some older children thought it would be
> funny to show it to us. This shouldn't have
> happened and I don't wish it to happen to young
> children today.


I’m sorry that happened to you. It shouldn’t have.

Do you know where the older children procured the pornography they showed you?

Almost certainly not from the library.

Just want a little clarification in case librarians are running a porn ring with the intent of traumatizing children.

^^ Not to be confused with the “naughty librarian” genre.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Almost certainly not from the library.

That is not the point. At some point a child acquired it from an adult. That adult either gave/sold it to them, or put it somewhere they could take it from.

Agreed. But that is a problem with society and parents and not with libraries, which are the topic of the thread.

More cops needed to patrol libraries to make sure adult type people aren't stealing porno from the libraries to give away to people of youth, or younger!

Maybe, just maybe, we can give the professional librarians (who have Master's degrees in Library Science) credit for having some common sense. Tell me, when is the last time that you saw pornography on *your* library bookshelf? And I'll bet you even cruise the adult section. Who is protecting you? /s

Oh lol! Yeah right. They are just brimming over with porn. There might even be - GASP - BARE SHOULDERS!

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe, just maybe, we can give the professional
> librarians (who have Master's degrees in Library
> Science) credit for having some common sense. Tell
> me, when is the last time that you saw pornography
> on *your* library bookshelf? And I'll bet you even
> cruise the adult section. Who is protecting you?

Librarians are glorified filing clerks not some kind of elite. I used to work as one many years ago before finding a better paid job. A decent librarian should be able to create a visually appealing display and deal with antisocial behavior, but that is little different from what happens in many stores.

If this was just about hiding children's books about gay penguins or basic sex ed texts, then there would be a legitimate grievance. But it isn't. You can't justify handing out sado-masochistic material etc to children.

I too worked in a library, the library of The Royal Society of Medicine, No. 1, Wimpole Street, London W1, from 1979 to 1980. Although I was only a lowly Library Assistant, there was a lot more to it than a filing clerk's job - and the real librarians with qualifications were extremely knowledgeable and competent. I suspect it's a case of only getting out what you put in...

There’s nothing lowly about you, Love.

Knowing that about you makes me admire you even more, Soft Machine!

Thanks everyone, but never forget that the Internet allows us to hide innumerable faults and only present the aspects that we want... Love you too :-)

I suspect you worked as a library clerk -- the people who check out and shelve books, and help clients. Any library will have a number of clerks. Every library should have at least one professional librarian with a M.L.S. degree. The librarians are responsible for managing the library branch. Some will also be responsible for selecting and ordering books. Do you have a M.L.S. degree, or the equivalent?

Some librarians work in university libraries or law libraries.

>> You can't justify handing out sado-masochistic material etc to children.

No one is trying to do that. Again, when is the last time that you saw this type of material on an adult shelf, much less in the children's section?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2024 08:23AM by summer.

Kids who learn about the wider world of knowledge and ideas cannot be easily brainwashed and indoctrinated as adults.

"All The Light We Cannot See" (PREVIEW)
https://youtu.be/QdE-JvKqpBQ?

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kids who learn about the wider world of knowledge
> and ideas cannot be easily brainwashed and
> indoctrinated as adults.
>
> "All The Light We Cannot See" (PREVIEW)
> https://youtu.be/QdE-JvKqpBQ?

The only knowledge to be gained here is "carnal knowledge". Look at what is listed instead of just saying this is an attack on free expression. How does sado-madochistic material broaden the minds of children?

You do realize that the source novel is a multiple-prize winning WWII novel written for adults? (From Wiki -- "The novel won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, the Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction, and was shortlisted for the National Book Award.") What exactly is your objection here? -- that an adult or older teen might read excellent literature? I'm going to imagine that most public libraries carry this book. My own library has many copies.

You've got it wrong, summer. CP is an opponent of government power let alone governmental intervention in the affairs of free citizens.

But this is different. This is one of those many instances in which state power is the way to enforce CP's personal political agenda, so it doesn't count as governmental overreach. Literary excellence must not stand in the way of the protection of society from profane and pornographic materials.

Other than the Bible, of course.

There is NOTHING sado-masochistic or pornographic in that movie. It is a realistic treatment of Nazism and resistance.

Have you watched it? If so, what is the real reason you dislike it?

Ever since I was a wee kid, I went to the library any chance I got. I used to walk to the library every day after school and my mom would pick me up there later. It was a magical place. I never cared or looked for the kinds of books the perv book banners seem to look for.

The only weird experiences I had in a library were at the BYU library. I was studying in a carrel against a far wall, when I saw some guy getting off in an aisle to....an anatomy book. Yep, a plain old anatomy book that wasn't very detailed. He didn't even clean up the drips he left in front of the open book on the shelf where he was standing. It wasn't about S&M or gay for cripes sakes. The people who want to ban stuff are the ones who probably have issues they fight, IMO.

I think everyone watching graphic murder everywhere on screens is far worse than anything the church moms are censoring.

The whole thing is ridiculous. If women's uteruses need to be policed, then why can't men be required to accompany their child to a library to make sure the kid only touches what the dad wants? Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but come on. We all know the real reason behind this is to limit education, revise history, and keep divisive focus on boogeymen by people who want to control.

And ew

I also had some older weirdo guy come up to me when I was studying alone at the BYU library. He said, "I am looking for my future wife and you might be her. Would you like to go get ice cream?"

Again, I don't think banning books like 50 Shades of Grey are a priority issue. It's another issue fabricated to distract everyone here in our Idiocracy.

Sado-masochistic material and pornography is specifically prohibited. There is a lunatic fringe of people who thinks small children should be sexualized as early as possible. I disagree with them.

Yes, questionable content does pop up in libraries from time to time. It is a shame that we even have to pass laws like this. If people want this material then they can get it as adults online or in a nasty little bookshop.

Is someone forcing YOU to read things and sexualize children a certain way? NO. Mind your own business instead of trying to decide what everyone else should be doing for cripes sakes.

You're making up problems that barely exist.

dagny Wrote:
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> Is someone forcing YOU to read things and
> sexualize children a certain way? NO. Mind your
> own business instead of trying to decide what
> everyone else should be doing for cripes sakes.

This is like saying that no one is forcing you to steal a car so grand theft auto shouldn't be banned. Petty criminals argue the same – keep out of our business etc etc. It is the entire community's business if some creep is handing over pornography to children.

The defense of this has been based on the idea it is anti-gay when it covers a sider range of material.

You're the one defending giving explicit material to children and dressing it up as education. It isn't acceptable to give kids pornography, it's a form of abuse. Many abusers give children this material to soften them up first. It isn't a justification to say that they'll access it online anyway.

Here you are again, masquerading as a freedom-loving conservative while actually calling for the state to intercede on your behalf.

It's sad, really, this degree of hypocrisy.

No CP, this is not about children, this is about YOU. Not libraries, YOU. An indecent that happened, TO YOU with material that did NOT come from a library and from other children. You also want to control what ADULTS see. This says it alllllllll "nasty little bookshop". The rest is just crap you made up.

Go find a place that will believe your crap.

Once again, when is the last time that *you* saw something explicit or pornographic in the adult section of your local library (much less the children's section?) As a teacher, I've been allowed to check out up to a hundred books at a time. I was so familiar with the children's section that I rarely needed to look up where a particular book was located. I never saw anything inappropriate in either the children's section nor the adult section. This witch hunt for books and library workers is way out of line.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once again, when is the last time that *you* saw
> something explicit or pornographic in the adult
> section of your local library (much less the
> children's section?) As a teacher, I've been
> allowed to check out up to a hundred books at a
> time. I was so familiar with the children's
> section that I rarely needed to look up where a
> particular book was located. I never saw anything
> inappropriate in either the children's section nor
> the adult section. This witch hunt for books and
> library workers is way out of line.

Yes, I have seen explicit materials in libraries including the children's section. When I was growing up there was certainly books on the human body with nude photographs of people of various ages.

Several years ago I *did* see booklets that were aimed at children of ten or so. I can't go into much detail but one of them had an explicit drawing of a girl examining herself with a mirror. Other pages showed drawings and descriptions of various different sex positions and acts. In this case the workaround was that there were no photographs. So yes, this material does exist and various non-profits help fund it.

I don't believe you. Go to your local public library within the next week, and try to find something pornographic, especially in the children's section.

I will also repeat something that I said downstream -- if parents are *that* worried about what their children might encounter in a public library, then they need to do something that they evidently have not considered -- **supervise their children.** I realize that this is a nearly foreign concept to some parents, but there you are. Supervise your kids, or ban them from using the library since it is so full of dangerous things. Is that too difficult?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2024 06:49PM by summer.

Teenage boys can find sexual stimulation in a telephone book.

I don’t think so. When was the last time you received a physical copy of the yellow pages? ;)

You old.

I thought about adding the chronological caveat but decided it would detract from the point.

And yes, I basically stole the idea from the brilliant Jenny Diski, who said teenage boys can get stimulated from random articles in the London Times.

I can’t relate, but the onset of regular morning wood must be a helluva shock to the pious younguns.

At least here where I live (Sequim, Clallam County, WA) the library I visit doesn't employ a MLS librarian, there is a supervisor who sets employee schedules, oversees housekeeping, etc.

When I first visited, I asked to chat with the 'librarian', but I was introduced to the supervisor. IDK if the main library has an MLS librarian...

Also, do librarians have time to monitor each child as to which material (books & other media) each child should have access to according to their maturity? I think that's a fantasy.

I have (now grown) children, some grandchildren, & 5> great-grandchildren; I think it's best for parents, thru some sort of governing or guidance council sort this out, not staff.

I agree with you on that. If parents are that level of concerned, they should be supervising their children, pre-teens, and teens at the library instead of trying to boss around everyone else.

Touche.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with you on that. If parents are that
> level of concerned, they should be supervising
> their children, pre-teens, and teens at the
> library instead of trying to boss around everyone
> else.

Libraries etc shouldn't be buying certain material with public money to begin with especially if it is aimed at children. (Yes, such material exists.) If people want to look at that, let them do so at an appropriate age.

How do they handle this in Afghanistan?

Someone needs to check with the Shah, or one of his representatives!

Excellent idea! Can you recommend one?

Then go to your local public library and find it! We'll wait. A library visit might do you some good. Has it been a while since you've read a book?

It's surely been a long time since he read Orwell!

Define pornography.

That's not so easy as we all know.


Here are the classic cases -- the David statues by Donatello and Michaelangelo:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_(Donatello)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_(Michelangelo)


So, what did CP actually see? They've not said exactly.


"Where The Wild Things Are" has been called both pornographic and Satanic:

https://pen.org/where-the-wild-things-arent-on-the-banning-of-sendak/


Is women’s fashion porn? National Geographic? Farm animals and livestock? Ankles? Elbows? Pets?


I think what CP is aiming for is a totally controlled, ersatz world in which nothing could be possibly perceived as controversial or pornographic. The next question would be "by whose definition?"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2024 08:40AM by anybody.

A number of books that are now considered classics of children's literature were initially controversial. "Where the Wild Things Are" is one of those books.

Public library pornography used to groom children in Tacoma, Washington.

Quoted from
https://floodlit.org/a/a300/

"Gary Fuller Reese was a Mormon bishopric counselor, seminary teacher and Boy scoutmaster; accused of sexually molesting several boys in his scout troops...

"He was employed by the TACOMA PUBLIC LIBRARY in Washington, where he worked as an archivist at the main library downtown, particularly with the Northwest history collection.

A source familiar with Reese told FLOODLIT.org: “As an adolescent he showed me a book of erotic Japanese photography featuring children and adults that was stored in the library vault. Gary held many church positions but most notably served as stake executive secretary for many years and my belief is that his relationship with a sympathetic stake president insulated him from accountability. The complaints listed here are probably barely scratching the surface, I know for a fact that more boys were groomed and molested by him.”

"Reese allegedly actively groomed the boys under his charge for later sexual molestation..."

So, they guy was from church. Would you say the church was responsible for the same reason you say the library is responsible? Let's ban clergy and churches. That seems like a fair apples to apples comparison to me.

I'm pretty sure the perv could have gotten material from other places if he wanted. Libraries don't do hard porn. Go in and ask to see it in their archives.

It's weird how people won't blame guns for harm, because people can legally get them. Instead they blame the person who misused it. But they go after libraries? If you want to discuss grooming of kids, it seems the internet would be the bigger harm.

Let's be a little consistent maybe?

I think some people need to helicopter their children better. I went to the library with my kids. I never sent them with some goofball from church. In all my hours in libraries, I never saw anything I would consider porn.

That's all you've got, CP? You tell us there is pornography on the shelves of elementary schools where children can find it, then go away for days to see if you can find proof, and then return with an instance in which something pornographic was kept in a vault where even adult patrons couldn't get it?

Pathetic. If you want to argue for the use of state power to regulate what city libraries have in their vaults, knock yourself out. But shut up about school libraries and librarians.

And if perchance you ever find yourself in a library--no, I don't think so either--be sure to see what they have on the History of Afghanistan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2024 09:50PM by Lot's Wife.

LOL, this is too stupid to reply to but what the hell. I will knock the strawman down.

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

STORED IN THE LIBRARY VAULT

Now back to our regular broadcasting about Porn Shoulders.

You make me smile

I live to serve Beffie :)

Q: is (was) Playboy pornography?

Remember, context is important.