My two nieces are on missions. It is very sad to read their letters. They are in their "happy worlds". It seems that there is no way on earth they would listen to anybody who tried to talk to them about the possibility that Mormonism might not be true.

I wish they would have come to me for advice before going on their missions. I have spent countless hours studying the Church. I am older than they are, and probably know more than they do. They way they write, it seems like there is no hope that they will every find out the truth.

I have thought about writing to them. But the thought of doing so is very discouraging.

Really, it is so sad! These girls are probably never, never, NEVER going to realize that the Church is not true! If they have trouble finding a man to marry in the temple, they might start to doubt the Church, but other than that, it seems very, very unlikely that they will ever change their minds.

They haven't come to me for advice about anything else either, which is sad. I have had a lot of experiences in my life. I went to BYU and to other colleges, and I could give them advice, especially since they have also gone to Mormon colleges.

One of my nephews is also on a mission. I haven't read any of his letters, but when he left he was excited to go, and there was no hint of any doubts at all about the Church. He also has never come to me for advice about anything.

These people will probably NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER realize the truth! They appear to be hopeless cases!

This is one reason we need other unbelievers for support. If we didn't have to deal with Mormon family members, maybe we could forget about the whole Mormon business.

Maybe, MAYBE, one of them will come to me in 20 or 30 years, asking for sympathy for the fact that they don't believe anymore. What will I say? Will I say, "You knew I didn't believe a long time ago, and you never came to me then. Why should I even talk to you about this?"

Many human beings are irrational, insensitive, insane RELIGIOUS FANATICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If one of your nieces is named Genecca, I may have an inside track on getting your message to her!

I was just as believing and dedicated to the Mormon church when I was a young missionary. At that point in my life I couldn't even imagine leaving "the church." I "knew" it was true and if anyone challenged my beliefs I simply wouldn't listen.

Somehow I went from super faithful believing Mormon to posting on RFM. There's hope!

Predicting the entire adult life of a 20 year old is a fraught endeavor. There are quite a few ExMos here who were pretty gung-ho on their missions.

I am impressed at your foresight on planning on how to insult them 30 years from now if they ask for your opinion of the church then, for not having asked you 30 years earlier. Lol. You may be overthinking this.

For every mush-filled female skull, there is a mush-filled male skull.

Look at you getting all mushy!!

Who knew you were such a romantic?!!?

During the holidays, my niece sent a photo along with her enthusiastic testimony all about Jesus, in syrupy mormon-speak. In the photo, she was dressed in quite conservatively winter attire (turtle neck sweater with baggy vest over it, thick quilted skirt, and long socks with no exposed leg. Anyway, to cap it all off, she had her hands clasped in front of her as if she were praying....and a simple chain necklace with a medium sized cross obviously displayed at her neckline. My first thought was "Mormon Nun". And I thought Mormons couldn't wear crosses. Is that a new "thing" to try tolook more normal (which she didn't).

...more morphing into mainline American religiosity...

I've just confirmed something I'd read on Reddit...

Check out this Google map display of the mormon churches in SoCal...

https://www.google.com/maps/search/LDS+Church/@33.9855186,-118.1341814,9z/data=!3m1!4b1?entry=ttu

Only one of them has the old Moroni notation; all the rest are crosses!!

David O. McKay is pissed!!

I wonder who choses the symbol...Google or the entity?

About my niece...I wonder if the mission is:
a) aware she wears a cross and looks the other way?
b) encourages wearing a cross?
c) requires wearing a cross?

Either Google. From the looks of it, if church is in the name, the entity gets a cross marker. If there's a modifier it gets something else. Mormon church temples get Moroni. Mission offices also get a Moroni.

The church of scientology churches (or whatever the equivalent is) also get a cross. A church of scientology missions gets a marker that looks like kind of like a mini version of their Clearwater base, the old hotel.

But because they have so many different entities, information centers, etc. those just get regular markers. Because they have so many more separate entities than most religions, I guess Google uses the marker when they can't pin down the bldg's use. So in DC, their national affairs center gets a regular marker, but the actual founding church (which I thought was more of an attraction now than a place scientologists go to do whatever they do when they meet as a group) gets a cross.

This is kind of fascinating. Mosques get the same icon as the scientology missions.

I have 6 LDS grandkids. I suspect that I will be asked to fund the missions of at least the 5 that are under the custody of my ultra-TBM ex-wife. Are we co-grandparents?

I believe that we do a disservice to youth sent on missions without experiencing the full commitment "living the gospel" (as expressed through the Church). Until youth have to work and work and save and save while the Church demands their 10% and then have it go to a mission (rather than whatever they choose), will these youth understand what TBM life is like. Otherwise, they still believe that everything in life is a gift (from Daddy, Grammy or Grampy).

Missions are all about snaring the missionary for life….permanent tithe payer and drone worker bee mindlessly belching the church is true….most of us have been there…social pressure has always been useful in brain washing and virtue signalling….go back to the three witnesses….Martin Harris wanted so badly to not be that guy that couldn’t see the plates he was hood winked into it…scroll ahead to the kirtland temple fiasco and WE Mclelland not seeing the flames visions angels etc all the drunkards saw….then bring on Hoffmann forgeries…it’s all just laughable really….plygs used to call that stage of life fools hill….apt name for the dumbest time of a persons life….likely also why missionaries are pressured into marriage so quickly….belch church is true….take heart the churches own stats claim fifty percent of missionaries go inactive within five years of returning….hope is a good thing maybe the best of things

Why do you need to let her know the church isn't true. Do you go around telling 8-year-olds that Santa isn't real. If believing in the church fulfills them then you should be happy for them.

I am PIMO but support my wife who is TBM. The church fulfills her. When my son went on a mission 10 years ago, my sister who is ex-mormon actually drove 6 hours to meet him and his companion and take them out to dinner (my sister lives across the country from us). They had a great visit. My sister enjoyed their company and didn't try to deconvert them.

Just because you aren't happy with the church doesn't mean others can't be.

My mission caused the first heavy object placed on my shelf. Many missionaries come home telling wonderful stories of inspiration and testimony. Soon enough the reality of life becomes obvious, and the lie of the mission experience at their homecoming talk lies deep within.

Their shelf may or may not be ignored. Just give it time.

On “Mormon Stories” watch it on YouTube there are several examples of people leaving the LDS church after serving missions, after getting married in the temple after even being a bishop. I left when I was 33 years old. That Joseph Smith married 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball was something that felt very wrong to me whether or not he had sex with her or not. A 14 year old is a child and Joseph Smith at the time was over 30 years old when he married her. I have a few cousins who have also left the LDS church. One of my cousins he resigned when he was about 40 years old. He had served a mission and got married in the temple. He left when he found out about conversion therapy. Another cousin left when she learned about the high suicide rate in Utah. If I hadn’t resign the 100 billion dollar rainy fund would have made me resign on the spot. With so much poverty and hunger the lds church can do more to help. The LDS church has over 200 temples but no soup kitchens. Jesus fed the poor.

as I keep seeing people who haven't posted in a while. Nice to see you here.

For me, I think you have to just let them figure it out themselves. Missions are important as my aunt's granddaughter didn't go on one and mormon guys won't date her and she is very attractive. The guys also want a return missionary for a wife. There are more and more young women who aren't getting married who are LDS. We have several in our ward and several of our friends from the singles ward have daughters who haven't married and they are in their late 30s and early 40s.

My daughter said that one we know well is happy as she is--not married. I very much doubt that. Being single in mormonism is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Thanks. It's nice to be posting again.

It's really interesting to hear that young Mormon women are getting rejected because they did not serve missions. It was not like that in the past. In the past, women were supposed to get married early. They only went on missions if they could not/would not get married, or if they had a really strong desire to go, and they couldn't go until age 21.

In the past, the young adult sex ratio was more evenly balanced, so a normal young women did not have to worry too much about being able to find a husband. Now there are many more single women than single men. This means that men have an advantage in the marriage market. This is one reason I think women are now going on missions at age 19. They need "something to do", and not enough of them are getting "something to do" as wives.

I never would have thought that Mormon men would not marry a woman who was not a returned missionary. I thought that many Mormon women would now have to settle for "lower quality" men if they wanted to marry in the temple, and that many Mormon men would be able to enjoy marrying "higher quality" women in the temple, but I thought that "high quality" women meant things such as beauty, intelligence, education, wealth, charm, etc. Since women were not stigmatized in the past for not going on missions, I assumed that they would not be stigmatized now either. But I guess today's young Mormon men have their reasons for wanting wives who are returned missionaries.

This may sound harsh, but it must be said: in the past, women who went on missions were sometimes viewed as less desirable by men. If they were more desirable, they would have gotten married and would not have gone on a mission in the first place, right? At least that was a common view. A missionary on my mission was talking about an attractive young female missionary. He said she should not have been there. He said she should have been "pumping out kids."

In a way, having men desire returned missionary status in wife material might be an improvement for how women are viewed by society at large, but it still tough for those Mormon women who have not gone on missions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2024 01:51AM by behindcurtain.

IMHO there is nothing you can do right now. When I joined the church as a 24 year old it was because my then boyfriend, now ex-husband, was determined to join; and even though I didn't want to, I thought I would lose him if I didn't. So I talked myself into it. I went the whole nine yards, getting married in the temple even though none of our family could attend, going to church no matter what, following all the rules, saying all the right things, taking callings I didn't want, bearing my testimony, etc. etc. Basically "fake it till you make it."

Back then my parents, who lived halfway across the country, would try to talk to me about the church. My dad wrote letters with all the evidence, but the more they tried to talk me out of it, the more I pushed back. I *WAS NOT* going to be told what to do or what to believe and I had already invested a lot of time and energy into being a good Mormon. I had already declared that I knew the church was true! How could I risk my marriage and my dignity by saying, "Oopsie, never mind." I was young. It took me years and lots of reading, time on this "new" thing, the internet (it was the mid- to late-90s), and endless hours on RfM to finally say I was wrong and I wanted out. I was in my 40s.

I left, and yes, the marriage fell apart, but it wasn't just because I left the church, although that was a part of it. Maybe a quarter of it. Anyway, my ex stayed in for a while (I don't think he goes any more, but his wife is definitely not Mormon). My kids all followed me out and here we are.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, people have to find out for themselves, decide for themselves, figure out the truth for themselves, and all you can do is be there for them. You can offer information, ask questions, try to have a conversation but until they're ready, IF they're ever ready, they'll know who they can talk to. Your relationship with them is the most important thing, whether they stay in the church or leave is secondary. Unless they treat you poorly because you don't believe, you don't want to push them away. Keep those lines of communication and love open.