I've seen missionaries tracting in my area. The nametags LDS missionaries wear only provide their last names, but I was wondering if it would be offensive to ask them their first names. Are they allowed to tell you their first names if asked?

It's offensive for missionaries to be interacting with me.

Neighbor A Wrote:
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> I've seen missionaries tracting in my area. The
> nametags LDS missionaries wear only provide their
> last names, but I was wondering if it would be
> offensive to ask them their first names. Are they
> allowed to tell you their first names if asked?

Hmm, when I served my mission (long ago), if people asked me that, I'd answer without a problem. I don't know if there's a rule now.

Somewhere, at sometime, there's been an Elder Elder and a Bishop Bishop...

There was an Elder Elder in my mission.

Yay!!!  Thank you for giving my life the meaning it has been lacking!!!!

I'm halfway to a halfway house...

Joseph Bishop - former mission president and MTC president and accused sex abuser. With positions that high in TSCC, I'm sure he was a bishop at one time.

elderolddog Wrote:
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> Somewhere, at sometime, there's been an Elder
> Elder and a Bishop Bishop...


I seriously did run into a pair of missionaries in the Sacred Grove who were Elder Elder and his companion Elder Elder.

In the book Catch-22 there was a character named Major Major Major Major, who was, a Major in the then US Army Air Corps.

They don't generally like it. I knew what some of their names were because they were on their scriptures.

Offensive? I don’t know. It is kind of weird. Do you ask flight attendants their first name? Police officers? Cashiers?

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Offensive? I don’t know. It is kind of weird. Do
> you ask flight attendants their first name? Police
> officers? Cashiers?

I think your age might be showing here as people in the professions you are alluding to often introduce themselves by first names alone. For example, the last time I was on an airplane (almost 20 years ago--perhaps I have aged?), the head flight attendant introduced herself as Sylvia, not as Miss X or Mrs. Y.

The one exception I can think of has to do with women who fear that they are being stalked. I remember touring a Bell phone company back in the 1980s (that long ago?) where all of the phone operators, used their original first names when they first answered calls but then used the name "Pat" whenever anybody asked them to repeat their names.

Finally (though I've personally never noticed it due to my own visual disability), I have been told that many professionals who deal with the public have their first names listed on a tag pinned to their shirts or dresses. Of course, whether it's their actual first names is anybody's guess.

Introducing yourself by your first name is not unusual. Asking a total stranger with whom you have no particular connection what their first name is is kind of weird.

Perhaps, but missionaries are mostly young people trying to build relationships of trust with their investigators. Plus, to many non-Mormons, calling a young person, "Elder" is weird and awkward. Mormons are used to it, but non-Mormons are not.

Looking at your comments and those of others in this sub-thread, I am reminded of some other notable exception to the first-name usage rule. If you work in, say the Federal Social Security office and you deal directly with the public, you *always* use only your last name when dealing with that public. This rule also applies to certain state and local employees such as teachers and police officers (interestingly enough, I have not heard of this rule being used in connection with firemen and emergency service workers). And, in the private professions, doctors usually do not like you being on a first-name basis with them.

I agree, asking them on the street or at your door is weird and rude. Once they cross someone's threshold to try to sell religion, asking for a name isn't too much, especially people with backgrounds in religions where the clergy go by Title First Name. I wouldn't do it, but I can see why some investigators would. Especially if the missionaries are using the investigator's first name.

My wife has been a flight attendant/ F/A instructor for 32 years. Their uniform name tags used to have their first and last names. Until around 2005 when Google allowed you search for and find most everyone. Then the airlines changed to "first name, last initial". About 5 years later, it became and still is, first name only.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Offensive? I don’t know. It is kind of weird. Do
> you ask flight attendants their first name? Police
> officers? Cashiers?

I always ask cops. When they say "Office" I reply that I won't talk to them because they are lying - their first name is not Officer. Then leave the area and/or refuse to talk with them.

Ha! When my students ask me my first name, I always tell them that it is "Miss" as in Miss Summer. And then when they ask me my age, I tell them that I am 100 years old, and don't I look great for 100? :o)

Depending on the circumstances, that can catch you a charge and perhaps get you arrested.

Susan I/S Wrote:
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> Depending on the circumstances, that can catch you
> a charge and perhaps get you arrested.


And it's rude and unnecessary. Like they don't have enough hassles to deal with.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Offensive? I don’t know. It is kind of weird. Do
> you ask flight attendants their first name? Police
> officers? Cashiers?

Flight attendants, police officers and cashiers usually don't ask people if they drink coffee, smoke or fornicate. By the time the Elders and Sisters get to that part of the discussions, I'd say asking their first name is a pretty mild exchange.

Actually, when someone allows a missionary into their home to try to sell them a religion, asking them to reveal their first name doesn't seem so impolite.

It would actually be healthy for them, remind them that they are individuals capable of individual thought and maybe even critical thinking. Being stripped of their core identity, their name, never to be referenced for 18-24 months, while they are also away from home and anything to remind them of their individuality is part of the brainwashing process. Might be rude to ask them, but in a "cruel to be kind" sort of way.

(not that I ever speak to them unless they happen to knock on my door in summer, and then I offer them a cold bottle of water or seltzer, whatever I have on hand. close the door, get the beverage, shove it at them and close the door again. I don't care about their names any more than I care about their church)

So you don’t like missionaries, and admit that demanding their first names is a passive-aggressive move to put them in their place.

I think that could be interpreted as offensive. Same is true for the poster who passive-aggressively asks for a police officer’s first name, and if the officer doesn’t comply, the poster switches from passive-aggressive to active aggressive.

In both cases, the subtext is hostility. And yes, people can reasonably take offense. Is this even remotely surprising?

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> So you don’t like missionaries, and admit that
> demanding their first names is a
> passive-aggressive move to put them in their
> place.
>
> I think that could be interpreted as offensive.
> Same is true for the poster who
> passive-aggressively asks for a police officer’s
> first name, and if the officer doesn’t comply,
> the poster switches from passive-aggressive to
> active aggressive.
>
> In both cases, the subtext is hostility. And yes,
> people can reasonably take offense. Is this even
> remotely surprising?


Woah, hold on. You read subtext where there wasn't any.

I don't hate missionaries, I don't offer them a cold beverage passive aggressively, I do it because I care about them as humans, but I don't need their names and don't want information about their church. It's just an act of kindness. How did you read hatred and aggression into that.

When did I admit to demanding their first names? Their names are none of my business.

If you read my comment correctly, the point was that it's a rude policy that missionaries are forced to ask people about their voices and sex lives. If someone was in my home and spotted my coffee machine or wine bottles, or if I was smoking (I don't smoke this is just hypothetical), or met my partner with whom I lived outside of marriage, the missionaries are going to talk about it. It's their training to get all up in someone's business. So if an investigator has to answer to the missionaries about private things, a question to the missionaries about their first names seems really minor by comparison.

I will never be in this position. I do not hate missionaries, I do feel for them. I'm not passive aggressive, I say what I mean, and now I'm saying you attacked me unnecessarily. I've posted here quite a bit on and off for at least 15 years, and I've never behaved in the way you accused.

For the record, I'd never ask a police officer for their first name, nor would I ask a teacher/professor, doctor or basically any professional, or anyone who introduced themselves to me as Mr/Ms/Mrs LAST NAME. That said, I was raised by parents who encouraged first name use to their friends and by my friends. My friends' parents were the same way. So if someone introduces themselves as Judy Jones, I'm going to instinctively call them Judy, if they introduced themselves as Ms. Jones, I'm using that and not asking for their first name. I prefer to be called by my first name and not Ms. Anon. It feels cold, to me, personally, not forcing that on others. So first names don't seem like a big deal to me, but I also have enough respect and decorum to not ask for them.

Hate was your word. I said "do not like", which I think is fair. Or at least you don't like the program they are part of.

True, you didn't't say anything about demanding their name. I was conflating your post with the earlier one about the police officers. My bad.

But you did seem to thing it would be good for them to be put in their place (my words, not yours) since they invade investigators' privacy in all sorts of ways.That's where I got the impression you don't really like them (or at least their program)

You really misread what I wrote.

It wasn't about putting them in their place at all. I was saying that someone asking them to identify themselves by their name, when they've been reduced to just being known as the interchangeable "elder", might be an opportunity for an awakening. They might start to question their programming and then their belief system, and find their way out of the church.

When I said "cruel to be kind", I didn't mean the act of asking their name was the cruelty, the cruelty was that it might somehow make them open their eyes to the indoctrination, resulting in questioning. It's easier to not question, and many won't. But many won't start questioning till years after their mission and they're locked into the church. The kindness is, for those who can be opened up to the indoctrination, it will be easier for them to find their way out of the church when they get home than on their 10th anniversary when they have a wife and inlaws and kids and all sorts of things to lose by leaving the church then.

Jerry, where is this town run by children that you speak of?

? I don’t recall referring to a town run by children. And my name’s not Jerry. Kind of ironic on a thread about first names, no?

That’s funny-

No, seriously you always make a lot of sense. And in this case, I’d have to agree with your opening post. Although, I do find it a bit pompous for people to give themselves titles and expect other people to use these titles.

My regards to Mr. Jerry, brother.

I only reveal my name through the veil. Instead of "what is wanted?", my reply is "who's asking?"

And should I tip them individually, or just the senior one, and do they pool their gratuities? And what about the baptism officiant?

    For the Elders, fold two $5 bills in half twice and then slip each Elder one of them in a two-handed, heartfelt handshake.

    Do the same for the guy or gal (hahahahahaha!) who dunks you, with a double-folded $20 bill, but not until after the ceremony is over and you've both dried off and changed.

    Give lots of eye contact with each one as the money passes...

    It doesn't matter, because, like any Maître d', the money will be palmed and put away without having to look at its ugly, impure surface.

    Money ... ick!!!!

How do missionaries address potential converts? By their first names or as "Mrs. Johnson/Mr. Johnson" ?

It's always Mr or Mrs or Ms on the first date. Things usually get more relaxed if you get invited back. Investigators under about 30 usually just get called by their first names right of the bat, but it depends on the culture of the country.

It was always Brother or Sister X, unless they were minors.

I'm not sure why but when I was a missionary a very long time ago, our little white rule book said we were supposed to address each other with our priesthood titles. Elder Smith, Elder Jones etc., and we were expected that members and investigators would do that too. I don't remember the first names of a couple of my companions since we rarely heard or used them.

We taught one elderly lady who insisted on calling us by our first names. When she visited a sacrament meeting, one of our mission leaders overheard her call my companion and myself by our first names, we got dressed down for that, and the zone leaders were sent to visit with her to make sure we were not breaking any other mission rules with her. After their visit with her( we roomed with the zoner leaders and knew their first names well) the zone leaders reported back to MP that were were clean. The next time we visited her she told us about the wonderful visit she had with the ZLs "Robert and Craig", we all got a good laugh out of the MP and his anal retentive rule keeping

A sister missionary once called my Mom Sister So-in-so (insert last name here), which as a non-member, my mother did not appreciate.

When I first entered the MTC, our district was introduced to each other on a bus (we were being driven somewhere as a group to receive our name tags or something like that). I'd always used first names with my own age group and naturally expected to continue doing so. My comp introduced himself as "Bill Johnson," so of course I said, "Hi, Bill."

Awkward dead silence on the bus. No one said a word and the others just stared at me like I'd broken all 10 commandments at once. It was my first taste of culty mission weirdness. All I could think of was "Crap. What have I gotten myself into?"

For the entire two years, I never once used the "Elder" title for any missionary. When I wanted to refer to someone else, I simply went with his last name. "Figures that Christensen would make ZL, he's a brown-noser." It was my own individual act of rebellion to help maintain my identity, which I wasn't going to surrender for any reason.

Mordor, not logged in Wrote:
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> For the entire two years, I never once used the
> "Elder" title for any missionary. When I wanted to
> refer to someone else, I simply went with his last
> name. "Figures that Christensen would make ZL,
> he's a brown-noser." It was my own individual act
> of rebellion to help maintain my identity, which I
> wasn't going to surrender for any reason.

That was my experience as well. We often referred to each other by last names. And if you were bit odd, your last name would get another nickname.

Elder Brown was called Green.
Elder Hart was called Hartless
Sister Pott was called Party Girl
Elder Stone was Stoner or Stoned

I was called Elder Poop a lot. And sometimes they would give you a new first name as well~ I was called Clueless too.

We had Elder Jones who looked exactly like the newly created TV caricature of the Bevis cartoon (which was debuting on TV). He had no idea why people were calling him Elder Bevis. He kept correcting everyone- My name is Elder Jones. Start using my correct name!

He tried to keep it a secret from everyone. He was the senior when I was assigned to him. He held the only key to the apartment and to the mailbox. I never got the keys, not one time. He separated the mail and kept his mail out of sight.

I finally learned his name by coincidence. The dude contracted with Columbia House to score free music (CD's for pennies was the rage). Like a good douchebag he never paid anything. I answered the phone and CH was calling trying to get dead beats to pay up~ they were trying to collect from Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Elder Elder and a whole lot of other pseudo sounding people.

One name was indeed correct~ some guy named Blocker. That was my companion. I asked the lady to spell out his first name W-I-L-B-U-R-F-O-R-C-E. Yeah, that wasn't too hot of a name. I told Elder Bocker that there was some lady that he had baptized on the line and she had more questions about the church. He fell for it and stayed on the line for the next half an hour. He was angry with me because he had to give up his home address and write home for his parents to pay the bill. I wasn't buying CD's on my mission.

I think part of the first name issue for some might be an age dynamic. Also, if I were to meet with a missionary I would want to address them as an equal/ or as a friend, using first names. But if they only addressed me by last name I would probably do it also for them.

I wonder how "You guys..." would go over on the streets or in your abode?

Was ELDER ELDER from WALLA WALLA?

While on my mission, I always called a missionary by their first name. If they would not give me their first name, then I would call them what I felt matched their character.

I had one who I referred to as "Dense"ton. That would really piss him off. He was one of those super jerk Zone Leaders. He refused to tell me his first name, and I continued to call him Denseton, without the Elder part. My companion laughed every time, we called each other by our first name, and never used Elder, even when speaking around the members or MP.