Why is it that so many people who want black or white, all or nothing religious fundamentalism, biblical literalism, biblical inerrancy, etc., etc., are also the same people who espouse conspiracy theories such as diseases not being real, vaccines faked, subliminal messaging in adverts, fluoridation, mind and weather control, chemtrails, lizard people, UN and/or FEMA concentration camps in the desert, moon landings faked, the great "replacement" and so on?

Or is it that some people can't deal with change, so they deny science and reality and blame everything on some type of mysterious secret cabal?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2024 02:25PM by anybody.

Aspie mormons, leave em alone.

possession of secret knowledge and understanding making you elite in some way.

Fundies believe everyone else is wrong and only they have the secret sauce. Conspiracy theorists dismiss all disconfirming evidence by making it, and the people pointing out the disconfirming evidence, part of the conspiracy. They are the only ones who have the secret sauce.

Lots of overlap on those two attitudes.

confession time...when I was 12 or so, I would think about how my non mormon friends would be so surprised when we were in heaven and they found out the mormons were right and THEY were wrong. I was young and dumb.

The link is called fuzzy thinking.

They both probably attract the same personality types.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/chad-daybell-murder-trial-lori-vallow-b2520142.html

Chad Daybell dug graves while he was a student at Brigham Young University and worked as a cemetery sexton in Utah for almost 20 years.

He told the Deseret News in 1992 that he believed digging graves helped him through school.

Daybell later founded his own publishing company, Spring Creek Book Company.

He authored several fiction and nonfiction books – many of them doomsday books loosely based on the teachings centered around The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints..

Among his teachings, he claimed he could teleport, could see into the future, see dead people, and that he and Vallow were part of the chosen 144,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory

Chemtrail conspiracy theorists often describe their experience as being akin to a religious conversion experience. When they "wake up" and become "aware" of chemtrails, the experience motivates them to advocacy of various forms.[31] For example, they often attend events and conferences on geoengineering, and have sent threats to academics working in geoengineering.[31]

A 2014 review of 20 chemtrail websites found that believers appeal to science in some of their arguments but do not believe what academic or government-employed scientists say;[31] scientists and federal agencies have consistently denied that chemtrails exist, explaining the sky tracks are simply persistent contrails.[3][13][33] The review also found that believers generally hold that chemtrails are evidence of a global conspiracy; they allege various goals which include profit (for example, manipulating futures prices, or making people sick to benefit drug companies), population control, or weapons testing (use of weather as a weapon, or testing bioweapons).[31][33][2] One of these ideas is that clouds are being seeded with electrically conductive materials as part of a massive electromagnetic superweapons program based around the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP).[34][35] Believers say chemtrails are toxic; the 2014 review found that they generally hold that every person is under attack and often express fear, anxiety, sadness, and anger about this.[31] A 2011 study of people from the US, Canada, and the UK found that 2.6% of the sample believed entirely in the conspiracy theory, and 14% believed it partially.[36][31] An analysis of responses given to the 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Study[37] showed that 9% of the 36,000 respondents believed it was "completely true" that "the government has a secret program that uses airplanes to put harmful chemicals into the air" while a further 19% believed this was "somewhat true".[38]

Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist with NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, has said that logic does not dissuade most chemtrail proponents: "If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it's, 'Well, you're just part of the conspiracy'", he said.

I believe ALL things.

No matter the subject or topic all one track obsessions have the potential for harm.

You only need to read up on Erin Brockovich and Watergate to find out that cover ups and corruption are a major feature of our society. We have a severe problem with lack of transparency and that is what really feeds such theories.

Some cults, by the way, are ultra-obedient to the status quo. Scientology used to have a major issue with the IRS but is now pretty loyal and docile towards the powers that be.

If you can convince people to believe that it is acceptable, even virtuous, to accept unjustified and unjustifiable propositions, there is nothing that they cannot be convinced of.

Good one! :o)

A bigger question to me is why are conspiracy theories such a big thing in the United States. I am sure there are some people in Europe who tout them but I never heard them growing up there and not ever in my numerous visits back.

I would generally agree with you and suggest that the American problem stems from the prevalence of extreme religious movements in the first in the first two centuries of the colonization. They stamped their mark on the United States.

As for the contrast to Europe, you need look no further than the conspiracy theories underlying Brexit. I know you will disagree on that point, but internal and external agitators pulled the wool over roughly half of the UK citizenry and the county is already paying the very high price that serious economic and political analysts predicted.

The United States is but a more extreme form of European, and human, vulnerability to conspiratorial manipulation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2024 09:54PM by Lot's Wife.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2024 11:49PM by anybody.

https://academic.oup.com/book/25369/chapter-abstract/192464693?redirectedFrom=fulltext (abstract only)

"Drawing on two YouGov surveys—the first of their kind—in Great Britain in February 2015 and across Europe (Great Britain, Germany, Italy, Poland, Portugal, and Sweden) in March 2016, this chapter shows that the British and Europeans are as likely to believe in conspiracy theories as are their American counterparts. The surveys suggest that political and economic exclusion are the greatest predictors of conspiracy theorizing. Policies that promote political and economic integration may therefore help reduce conspiracy theorizing."

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0032321720972616 (also abstract only)

"What explains conspiracy thinking in Europe and America? This is the first and largest comparative study of conspiracy thinking to date, presenting findings using a representative sample of 11,523 respondents in nine countries. First, it shows that the overall level of conspiracy thinking in Europe is equal to or slightly lower than the United States, contradicting the notion that conspiracy theories is an especially American phenomenon. Second, people more inclined to conspiracy thinking position themselves towards the right of the political spectrum, engage in magical thinking, feel distrust towards public officials and reject the political system. Finally, we find that – surprisingly – the country context in which respondents reside has hardly any effect as predictor of levels of conspiracy thinking or as a moderator of individual-level determinants. Heterogeneity in conspiratorial thinking seems to be largely a function of individual traits."

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2020/07/30/qanon-theories-are-merging-with-european-conspiracies-report

"QAnon conspiracy theories are being pushed further towards the mainstream in Europe, according to a new report."

"NewsGuard says that many of these accounts push the claim that European countries are under the control of a "Deep State". The accounts also target world leaders such as Emmanuel Macron and Giuseppe Conte.

The report adds that in 2020, these theories have moved from fringe groups to popular misinformation websites, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic.

NewsGuard says the theories have also been republished within uniquely local conspiracy groups, including the pro-Yellow Vest movement in France and far-right conspiracy groups in Germany that have lamented the stationing of US troops."

A whole bunch of them linked

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Conspiracy_theories_in_Europe


https://www.politico.eu/article/digital-euro-currency-conspiracy-theory-marc-friedrich-jorg-meuthen-european-central-bank-surveillance/


And finally this guy

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3qa8/david-icke-european-ban

"The Dutch government has banned the controversial British conspiracy theorist David Icke from entering the Netherlands and basically all of the EU over concerns he poses a threat to public order, officials announced on Thursday."

Good ole David Icke the Lizard Man. There is quite a bit about him in the board archives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

David Vaughan Icke (/vɔːn aɪk/ vawn iyk; born 29 April 1952) is an English conspiracy theorist and a former footballer and sports broadcaster.[1][2][3][4][5] He has written over 20 books, self-published since the mid-1990s, and spoken in more than 25 countries.[6][7][8]

In 1990, Icke visited a psychic who told him he was on Earth for a purpose and would receive messages from the spirit world.[9] This led him to claim in 1991 to be a "Son of the Godhead"[5] and that the world would soon be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes. He repeated this on the BBC show Wogan.[10][11] His appearance led to public ridicule.[12] Books Icke wrote over the next 11 years developed his world view of a New Age conspiracy.[13] Reactions to his endorsement of an antisemitic fabrication, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in The Robots' Rebellion (1994) and in And the Truth Shall Set You Free (1995) led his then publisher to decline further books, and he has self-published since then.[8]

Icke contends that the universe consists of "vibrational" energy and infinite dimensions sharing the same space.[14][15][16] He claims that there is an inter-dimensional race of reptilian beings, the Archons or Anunnaki, which have hijacked the Earth. Further, a genetically modified human–Archon hybrid race of reptilian shape-shifters – the Babylonian Brotherhood, Illuminati or "elite" – manipulate events to keep humans in fear, so that the Archons can feed off the resulting "negative energy".[14][17][18][19] He claims that many public figures belong to the Babylonian Brotherhood and propel humanity towards a global fascist state or New World Order, a post-truth era ending freedom of speech.[13][14][20][21] He sees the only way to defeat such "Archontic" influence is for people to wake up to the truth and fill their hearts with love.[14] Critics have accused Icke of being antisemitic and a Holocaust denier with his theories of reptilians serving as a deliberate "code".[22][23][24]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2024 09:23AM by anybody.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/solar-eclipse-conspiracy-theories-far-right-1234998475/

Solar eclipses, like the upcoming one on April 8, are a well-documented scientific phenomenon. As early as 763 BCE, ancient Assyrians were charting the process by which the path of the moon temporarily obstructs the sun, and astronomers have continued to do so for thousands of years since. Our knowledge of eclipses predates our knowledge of gravity, algebra, and toilet paper. We are well aware of their existence, and we are well aware of what causes them. (I mean, I personally am not, but other people ostensibly are.)

.....

This latest onslaught of misinformation began, as it often does, with InfoWars host Alex Jones, who has spent the past few weeks ranting on X about the upcoming eclipse. Last week, he posted a clip with the caption: “Major Events Surrounding The April 8th Solar Eclipse[.] Masonic rituals planned worldwide to usher in New World Order.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2024 12:38AM by Maude.

I would say anyone who is more likely to follow a leader and not think for themselves are more gullible to believe bullshit. They could be liberal or conservative.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would say anyone who is more likely to follow a
> leader and not think for themselves are more
> gullible to believe bullshit. They could be
> liberal or conservative.

The Mormon leadership has vested interests in the west's power/financial structure and has even incorporated anti-conspiracy rhetoric into the handbook. As usual members are always to defer to those more powerful than they are.

QUOTE:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng#title_number226

38.8.45
Seeking Information from Reliable Sources
In today’s world, information is easy to access and share. This can be a great blessing for those seeking to be educated and informed. However, many sources of information are unreliable and do not edify. Some sources seek to promote anger, contention, fear, or BASELESS CONSPIRACY THEORIES (see 3 Nephi 11:30; Mosiah 2:32). Therefore, it is important that Church members be wise as they seek truth.
Members of the Church should seek out and share only credible, reliable, and factual sources of information. They should avoid sources that are speculative or founded on rumor.

So the Book of Revelations is a trusted source and the destruction predicted in the last days is not a baseless conspiracy theory. This from the same church that believes an angel took the Golden Plates back to heaven because a conspiracy theorist said that's what happened.

Seriously, the church was founded by a conspiracy theorist. A David Icke with 30 wives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2024 10:17PM by bradley.

"The Mormon leadership . . . has even incorporated anti-conspiracy rhetoric into the handbook."

Only a person of profoundly limited rationality would consider that a bad thing.

Enjoy the Kool-Aid.

My brother was raised Southern Baptist like I was. He no longer believes, but he’s gotten so strange. He thinks the Earth is flat among other nutty things. I can’t talk to him anymore. I hope his three kids get some type of decent education. I’m so sad for them.

Ask Conspiracy Brother if he uses GPS on his phone. The math behind GPS needs the Earth to be spherical for it to work. Maybe you can't trust The Man, but you can trust the math.

If he thinks math is a white conspiracy https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5wfrDhgUMGI



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2024 10:32PM by bradley.

I think for him it’s an anti-authority thing and that he went to a fundamentalist Christian school (white) that wasn’t big on STEM. I don’t see a racial component. Some of the videos he shared with me and my kid are made by some white dude.

Seriously. I haven’t spoken with him in a couple of years. I just can’t anymore. He hasn’t displayed any affinity for hotep nonsense at least.

IDK. It’s sad. Our mother lost her mind, and his father was functionally illiterate. Yet he graduated from high school! Great job, Suffolk, VA! Anyway, my stepfather was a nice man. Welllll, except for the armed robbery business I didn’t find out about until I was 16 and my brother was maybe two months old.

My family put the D in dysfunctional.

Yikes! It's a wonder you turned out so well! Your mom obviously Used up all the IQ points on you.

Some families have more than their fair share of problems. Some kids overcome more than others. The flat earth thing is bizarre.

Before my mom went nuts (I use the term colloquially), she sent me to a great public school. Teachers saved me. My parents separated when I was five, and while my father was somewhat clueless about kids, he did support me, and I saw him regularly. He’s an atheist and has a degree in chemistry. He became a computer scientist at some point, so I was able to go to a Friends’ school until I got tired of the public transit commute to the suburbs and convinced my parents to send me to a parochial school within walking distance. Again, teachers saved me.

But I was an exhausted kid. Wednesday night was prayer meeting. Friday night was Bible study. Saturday we went to juvenile hall and had mini-Bible study for the kids. Sunday was spent in church from 9am to about 3pm. I edited the lessons for the juvenile hall kids (my mom volunteered to do it, but didn't follow through)…hell, she taught me to balance her checkbook. I also wrote the checks to pay the bills, she’d sign them, and I’d mail them. I did her taxes even. All this probably started when I was 12ish. I went to the market, the laundromat, started babysitting when I was 10. It was so much. The periods when we didn’t go to church all the time, she’d come home with a couple of books for me, and I’d read both over the weekend. I was super lonely. At least I had books.

When I was at the Friends’ school, I had no time to study. No rest. Meanwhile all this hellfire and brimstone stuff was shoved into my head and I was falling asleep in class. But I also learned about SAT prep courses and made sure my father got me a tutor.

Mom did so so much wrong, but she also did just enough right.

Wow. Thank goodness for your dad and teachers at least. Your mom was probably trying but sheesh.
That's A LOT for a kid though.

You had a good mind obviously! You could have gone down some other paths but I'm glad you didn't. :-) Somehow you got your ducks in a row.

My parents were not-so-bright Mormons but I mostly lucked out compared to the trials of so many.

Yeah, she was trying. She’s had an incredibly rough life, and she blames the things that have happened to her on a lack of faith. Her experiences don’t give her a pass. She’s been incredibly physically, emotionally and mentally abusive to me and my brother. Her answer is religion. My answer for myself was parenting classes. Trying to learn to be authoritative without being authoritarian. I was also a continent away from my mother when my daughter was born. Those five years away from her and meeting people who were raised differently made all the difference. Still, it’s scary how easily my mother’s words fell from my mouth when I was starting out with the parenting thing. Terrified me.

Yes. I'm glad you got away and somehow saw through the religion quagmire.

I've noticed what when people are screwed up, religion usually just makes it worse.

Yeah. I mean, kids are malleable and dependent, but they also have a strong desire for fairness. The more I realized just how unfair our religion was, the more upset I became.

Beth, I think I would have lost *my* mind with all of that religious crap. I was bored enough with an hour of church on Sunday, and weekly catechism (indoctrination) classes.

I remember once early in my teaching career, I had a routine conference with a parent. She was telling me all the activities that her daughter was signed up for, and there was something every day. I urged her to give her daughter one or two free days per week. It all sounded so exhausting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2024 05:36AM by summer.

Yeah, and I was the only kid at all these dumbass meetings. Did I mention Bible study and prayer meeting were from 7pm to about 11pm? Eesh.

But I remember the school librarian recommending “A Wrinkle in Time” to me. I was afraid to bring it home (witchcraft!), but I read it in the library which was basically a beat up trailer home sitting in the middle of tarmac. We didn’t have a playground or grass or any of that stuff at my public school. But we had good teachers in the Open Classroom program. My mother fought to get me into that.

I think the teachers suspected my mother was abusing me, but my mother was also charming and very beautiful. There were a couple of trips to the school counselor “just to talk,” but I was tight-lipped. I was sworn to secrecy about so many things, and the kids I knew who were in foster care were having a difficult time. I was afraid that there were things in the world worse than my mother. She’d already convinced me that if I asked my father for anything, I would get him in trouble with my stepmother, and if I did *that*, I might not see him anymore.

Meh. Life!

Bradley was not implying your brother is racist. He was just throwing in a gratuitous political dig at the "math is a white man's thing, and therefor racist" crowd. Of course, that particular crowd, besides being very small, is neither religious fundamentalist nor conspiracy theory minded, at least not in the sense that it is usually used. So it is off-topic for this thread. Bradley just saw an opportunity for political mockery that he figured that he could get away with, because, well, IMHO, "math is racist" is ridiculous.

Oh. Okay. Weird.

Anyone who leaves rationality behind belongs in religion. I really can respect those types. They get to experience a different world. Not having the restraints of critical thought has its perks, but it makes one a sucker for authoritarians. Exactly what your brother doesn't want.

What can you do? Raise ducks?

I wish he would raise ducks. I mean, when you eat, breathe and sleep religion like we did, there’s a big space that can be filled with just about *anything* when you leave.

My brother is a gifted visual artist and committed to community projects. He’s into creating green spaces in the ghetto for community gardens and parks. He volunteers with children and teaches free art classes.

Maybe one day he’ll reconsider the flat Earth thing. Over time he has asked me about evolution and other verboten subjects.