(Sorry. I meant to say "gosh-darn" or "gol'darned". My bad.)

No doubt about it. In the 1960's, we all absolutely loved David O. McKay.* Possibly because of his smiley face and that nimbus of fluffy white hair. Or (hear me out) simply because he was seldom seen for like the final 15 years of his presidency. Whatever the case, he appeared so friendly and nice.

After McKay's death, he was replaced with a guy no one liked, Joseph Fielding Smith. He was a jerk and sucked as a so-called "prophet". You know, "Man will never make it to the moon, and you can take this to the bank, yada-yada", and all that shite. Smith was followed by Harold B. Lee. Many loved him too, and the church named the new BYU library after him. He turned out to be a harsh racist; he made the rule that Blacks could not attend BYU.

After Lee's death, we got that little guy who seemed so nice and soft-spoken. He struck everyone as a closeted gay man, especially seeming to be stuck like a scratchy record on the sins of homosexuality. He sometimes just said weird stuff. He reviled the "masturbation parties" in his tiny Arizona Mormon town of Thatcher. A lot of us would look at each other and wonder just what kind of small Mormon town had "masturbation parties". He SEEMED okay, but that's when I first noted dishonesty among him and "The Brethren", mostly over the 1978 allowing Blacks to hold the priesthood. The story was full of lies and contradictions.

He was followed by a string of five church presidents, all of whom have proven to be goddamn liars. Whatever the case may be, we can no longer embrace them as kind, old grandfatherly men. Now the lying and bullying are very obvious to all, but tolerated and rationalized by active, believing TBMs. As the the church presidents die off and get replaced, will the lying just get worse and worse?


* We've always mispronounced "McKay". The "Kay" actually should rhyme with "pie". Ah, well. Too late now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2024 05:17PM by Maude.

"Goddamn liars" and crooks is all they have ever been.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2024 05:19PM by Maude.

When the foundational text of your religion, the BoM, is a lie, you are kind of painted into a corner. You can't very well say "it's all made up, and we are just winging it."

What about "It's made up but it's still true."?

Religions actually get away with that. Look at how many end of the world cultists are unfazed by failed predictions.

The Mormon mind is a glass house where stones of logic must never be thrown. Or if they are, be heavily padded.

If the church revealed all, nothing would change. And if it did, the church will coast on its wealth for a long time. Human nature does not change. We are not rational beings. We develop feelings, around which we selectively wrap logical reasoning and a Spock-like cynicism, and call it rationality. Mormons will always find a way to pound a square peg into a round hole.

> What about "It's made up
> but it's still true."?


I think that it's a human fascination to think to yourself, "Yeah, I made this up . . ., but it could be TRUE...and SHOULD be true!!!"


This presupposes that humans are susceptible to the notion that "Truths exist," and all you have to do is find them.



Here's a list of possible "self-evident" truths that humans are prone to "discover."

1)  Mom loves me best

2)  if I want something, I should have it

3)  if I make a mistake, I should not be punished

4)  it's always someone else's fault

5)  people should be happy to defer to me

6)  my explanations should always be accepted

7)  nobody's perfect, but I sure do come close!

Any religion that increases the odds of reproductive success will be given a lot of leeway.

I agree with you. I think that if Joseph Smith happened to be completely outed as the con artist and liar that he was, people would still follow him and the church that he created.

They would either stay in denial or explain it away. If you can rationalize Mormonism, you can rationalize anything. Why let that kind of creativity go to waste?

When people are raised (by their parents) to be decent human beings, it can take a very long time for those people to understand that others can lie without hardly thinking about it. So the Mormon leaders have always roped in the naive people who believe what they are told, along with the leaders' fellow grifters.

I've noticed fewer statements of (alleged) 'facts' over time, so in that sense they're getting "wiser" bc they know many folks will check their statements...

just me?

John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow and Joseph F Smith all claimed to have direct revelation from God or heavenly beings.

Joseph F Smith was the last prophet to have his revelations canonized.

Hinckley of course denied Being a prophet.

At least Wrinkley had the alls to allow questions from Mike Wallace; has anyone since been open to non-mo reporters- hournalists?

Best line from the Mike Wallace interview: "I am sustained as such."

I remember wondering wtf I just saw.

That was my last day as a mormon.

He made no bones about being top dog and little need for revelation. He was a chief LDS Bureaucrat through and through. And while I was out when Let's Go Shopping Monson was at the reign, he really was lackluster when it comes to member expectations.

Nelson's game- I hated being Mormon and I felt uncomfortable.

So Nelson has made every longtime member feel uncomfortable by changing church culture.

back with David O. McKay, but then I was really young at the time. Barely remember Joseph Fielding Smith. I think Kimball messed with our heads through those years as I was a teenager and in my 20s in those years and I bought into the RM and temple marriage.

I'm not sure who the prophet was when I found out the boyfriend, future husband was gay. 1983 was the year. What a mess!!!

That was the beginning of the end for me. Never much liked any of the following ones and Nelson has got to be the worst of them all.

It makes me wonder if there was anything spontaneous or original in Russ’ life before his coronation.