I was thinking recently about the Mormons and their religion. Someone referred to it as an American religion, but the more I think about how it works, it may be the least American Religion today.

This is from my understanding of Mormons (so I MAY be wrong, but this is from what I have heard, read, and been taught by missionaries).

In America, or what many call America which is the United States, we believe in equality. There is the belief that all men are created equal and that no man is above another. We all can vote and each get an equal vote and say. We all can start a business and take out loans (which may bankrupt many), we can all drive cars...etc.

In the Baptist church there is the idea that any person can be called. They can feel the need to work for heaven and become a pastor. There is no set path. Some go get PhD's, others just start their church. It is a great equalizer. Anyone can start a Baptist Church.

I think that holds true for some other Protestant churches as well.

For those that don't, they have it as a TRUE volunteer process. Those who wish to join the clergy may join. In many they all have an equal chance to advance in the clerical ranks...BUT...they all hold the same authority or Priesthood as Mormons would understand it. They all can run the sacraments of their religion.

Mormons say that all men (not woman) can have the priesthood, but it is divided into ranks. Someone who is part of the clergy CANNOT just perform any of the sacraments. They must have the KEYS to do so or something. Only those who are Lawyers and Scribes (the educated with papers and able to write and read a ton...etc) are the ones who normally get promoted to someone who has "Keys" and are able to allow the lower sacraments. This would be their Bishop. All others who aren't promoted to this position are not allowed to just perform sacraments.

They say it is a volunteer position. Last I checked, volunteers...well...volunteer. They are not "Nominated" or picked from the crowd per se. No Mormon Bishop is truly a volunteer. Their clergy is NOT volunteer, it's selected. Good luck at finding Blue Collar workers as a Bishop, and even fewer will be Stake Presidents or the higher positions.

Doesn't matter if you are white or not, they aren't choosing the low born.

This system is the exact OPPOSITE of equality and everything that the Lord taught against from what I thought. He condemned the Lawyers and scribes, the rich and wealthy.

It also seems to go against the basic American Principals.

So, is it really an "American" Church?

    Yes, the mormon system mimics the royalty system rather than any egalitarian system, but that's the way mormon ghawd wants it.

    And for sure, when I was growing up in the church, my little town had mormon royalty, and we all curtsied and kissed the ring...

I thought "American" meant that it was created and founded in America? Like, I don't think Mormons call themselves an American church. It's a denigration given by those looking in from the outside, that Joseph Smith didn't "restore" anything but created the church in the U.S.A.

Looking at a bigger picture, I don't follow completely. I do see your point though.

JS was the epitome of a "low born" person who took advantage of anyone being able to set up shop using God. He made the rules and they still attract the gullible. I'd call that truly "American," but then pretty much all religion does this.

I certainly wouldn't look to S. Baptists as examples of practicing equality, except maybe only in the context you describe.

The "all men are created equal" sounds good, but there were a lot of exceptions when the USA was founded. Although we are getting closer (hopefully), it's still not true in practice today.

Dagny wrote in part:

"The "all men are created equal" sounds good, but there were a lot of exceptions when the USA was founded. Although we are getting closer (hopefully), it's still not true in practice today."

I concur 1000%!

Yes, it is a hierarchy based upon ones image.

Examples:

In my youth I was the kid that never swore, attended every meeting. Participated in sacrament every single week by passing, preparing, or blessing for 6 years. I never got in trouble, never called to the principles office, nor touched or got in trouble with a girl. But all my peers who lied, cheated, spent time with the girlfriend, bullied, etc. They all were leaders, why? Dad was either a Bishop, Councilor, or was the rich one in the ward and\or Mom was top of the pecking order in social circles.

When I was just into my forties, I would attend High Priest group because everyone I had known for years had been moved on except me. I took care of their service projects and other stuff, but was told I could not be a High Priest because I had an "attitude problem". Although all my fellow 40 somethings who had moved on had issues with Word of Wisdom, Porn, etc. But hey they were the popular guys that would cry on the stand at Fast and Testimony.

So yea, its all based upon your persona, work title, and if you cry on the stand, and say "yes sir" while saluting your leader.

But I have to admit, in the long run it was the best thing that ever happened to me. When I decided to just leave, nobody noticed (nor cared) that I no longer showed up.

The cult of personality

    is stronger than

        the cult of actual performance.

"Good luck finding blue collar workers to serve as bishop." I spent some 21+ years in military wards. The bishops and stake presidents are all military officers. The stake presidents appear to be all field grade officers (major upwards); the bishops and high council members tend to be lowly company grade officers (lieutenant to captain). I was once called as high council member, however, while serving as a lowly enlisted member. But it was after the Berlin German ward was forced to absorb the military ward. So the stake officers were almost all Germans who didn't care about the military hierarchy.

How many blue collar GAs have you heard of?

J Golden Kimball. There were probably others in the first hundred years of Mormonism. But not so much lately.

The LDS church is very American in that it almost perfectly mirrors American corporate values. You are told where your office (I.e. what ward you can attend) is.

You are expected to wear the corporate uniform. The LDS dress code is precisely the corporate dress code from the mid 20th century. They have the extra wrinkle of having corporate underwear.

Missionaries are a corporate sales force.

The Church Office Building is not a religious HQ, it is a corporate HQ, and looks like it, very much on purpose.

Their internal political organization is corporate autocracy, totally top-down. It is in no sense a republic/democracy. Members don’t pick their leaders, their personal callings, or their own wards.

The Mormon Church is in fact a very well run and successful corporation. Hard to be more American than that.

Mormonism does have its own version of Manifest Destiny: it firmly believes it has the divine right to roll forth and fill the whole earth, and will kick hard against anybody (like city zoning commissions) that dares get in their way.

> The Mormon Church is in fact
> a very well-run and successful
> corporation.  Hard to be more
> American than that.

The Tokoyo South mission under MP Groberg is a wonderful example of corporate religion meeting and exceeding the posted metrics!

You would deprive those in need of narcissistic supply?

America's God is the almighty dollar. The Mormon church is the MOST American Religion. Egalitarianism is a shell game played by politicians while elites complete the transition from capitalism to neofeudalism. Goodbye middle class.

The church used to be for the middle class. Now it is for royalty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2024 11:33AM by bradley.

Betty G, do you mean Southern Baptists or American Baptists? I know very little about the former except Jimmy Carter was pained by the choices made by his beloved church. I know a bit more about the ABC and its commitment to social justice. But the ABC pastors I knew had seminary educations. Other than that, I know nothing about the polity of either.

Also Baptists are a somewhat loose group with respect to worship. Pastors might be members of the Southern Baptist Convention, but there really is no correlation with respect to how people worship. There are doctrinal absolutes, but each congregation hires and fires their own pastor. Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Infant dedication (what some others call Christening) is solely symbolic as well. The Bible is to be read literally as the word of god. If you’re not saved, you’re going to hell, period. Doesn’t matter if you die as an infant or never heard of Jesus. You’re straight up damned. There’s no age of accountability. THAT is the thing I never could stomach. A loving god damns people to suffer eternally because of original sin even if they’ve never been exposed to Christianity and afforded the chance to reject it? I was not okay with that. It made no sense to 12-year-old me. It wasn’t right. Once I settled on that, I started thinking about everything else that made no sense.

You would get more love and loyalty from a dog than you get from some people's god.

fischfrei Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Betty G, do you mean Southern Baptists or American
> Baptists? I know very little about the former
> except Jimmy Carter was pained by the choices made
> by his beloved church. I know a bit more about
> the ABC and its commitment to social justice. But
> the ABC pastors I knew had seminary educations.
> Other than that, I know nothing about the polity
> of either.

I'm talking about Baptists as a whole, or the entire ideology of the Baptists.

Southern Baptists are probably the largest branch of the Baptist in the United States, but there are a LOT more Baptist than simply the Southern Baptist.

Many independent churches have a focus on either a Pentecostal or Baptist slant due to how they focus more on the individual is called to preach by Heaven than a more organized type of system.

Some Baptist churches prefer education (degree, many times up to having a PhD in either divinity or a related field), but there are many churches that are just started by someone who felt called to the work.

Many of those churches that require someone to have a degree to be a Pastor want someone who is educated in counseling, psychology, and other areas so that they can be useful in those areas rather than just winging it (which is something else Mormons do, their leaders really have no true qualifications except that someone higher than them on their hierarchy decided to choose them for their position).

It's not a requirement though, and there are pastors that just love the gospel and the Lord. Of course, most of the churches that are led by homegrown pastors are also of the type where that pastor has to work a full time job and preaches because they feel called to it.

I've seen Baptist preachers who live in trailer parks and even one or two that bordered on homeless. Not something I think I've ever seen in a Mormon church (of course, I haven't seen as many Mormon Bishops as I have baptist preachers in my lifetime, but living in the Morridor I think I have enough exposure to be able to see just how it really is among the Mormons).