Does that explain ChurchCo & Putin?

How (why) doesn’t ChurchCo speak boldly when Evil is Obliviously in their face?

Oh that’s right, they’re focused on telling people to buy & wear their brand OF UNDERWEAR !!!

My Bad

So much wrong with MFMC in regards to Adolf and WWII atrocities.

They actively supported him and his policies for quite awhile. Missionaries helped coach German Basketball Team in preparation for the 1936 Olympics.

Church helped with a lot of genealogy work to identify those with Jewish ancestry. Records used to find, round up and kill many of them.

Church leaders (J.Reuben Clark) actively denied letters for German citizens of Jewish faith/ancestry that would have allowed them to immigrate to the US, fleeing German persecution.

Not ONE General Authority voiced any warning about what great Evil Adolf Hitler was - at least before the US entered the war.

This might have been a good Q for RP, perhaps for D. Uchtdorf...:

Were any Mormons in leadership positions in the admin or military of Hitlerism?

Who, when, & 'how high'?

Here's a book on the subject:

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/23494024

Excerpts:

"While Adolf Hitler's National Socialist government was persecuting Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses and driving forty-two German religious sects underground, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints continued to practice unhindered. How some fourteen thousand Mormons not only survived but thrived in Nazi Germany is a story little known, rarely told, and occasionally rewritten within the confines of the Church's history... ...this book is the first full account of how Mormons avoided Nazi persecution through skilled collaboration with Hitler's regime, and then eschewed postwar shame by constructing an alternative history of wartime suffering and resistance."

"They also purged Jewish references from hymnals, lesson plans, and liturgical practices. One American mission president even wrote an article for the official Nazi Party newspaper, extolling parallels between Utah Mormon and German Nazi society. ... subsequent efforts to suppress it [collaboration] by fashioning a new collective memory of ordinary German Mormons' courage and travails during the war."

The article goes on to refer to the Mormon Church's wartime experience as an "inconvenient past".

(415 pgs, published in January, 2015)


I doubt you'd find this book anywhere near an LDS church library. (Does the Mormon Church do libraries?)


They "continued to practice unhindered". In the circumstances, not a statement to make you proud is it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2024 12:53PM by Nightingale.

    Did mormons shoot at each other during the Battle of the Bulge?

    One of the very lesser-known stories regarding WWII has to do with the internment camps in Louisiana, where captured German soldiers were housed.

    Keeping in mind the 'Aryan-ness' of these young German men, along with how depleted the ranks of young, single American males were because of the exigencies of the ongoing war, it should come as no surprise that there was quite a bit of fraternization going on between German prisoners who would sneak out at night, and the lonely American women with whom the soldiers would canoodle, and then sneak back into camp before morning roll call.

    It was common to hear groups of women talking, comparing notes, about their favorite "Schnitzels" ...

    Were children born of these unhallowed congregations?  The answer can be found in Judic West's new book, "Bundestag in the Bayou!" which is now on sale everywhere fine lingerie is sold.

From the article cited by Villager:

"After the war, some of the prisoners came back and visited families they worked for in the fields.  Other camps reported them coming back to Utah and marrying local girls."


The article said nothing about attempts to convert them, so I don't know if the marriages were in the temple or not.

I have learned that the German neighborhood in town was called "little Berlin". My in-laws lived close by and knew several of them.

From the Holocaust Encyclopedia:

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-persecution-of-jehovahs-witnesses

Excerpts:

"Jehovah's Witnesses were subjected to intense persecution under the Nazi regime. Nazi leaders targeted Jehovah's Witnesses because they were unwilling to accept the authority of the state..."

"Many actions of Jehovah's Witnesses antagonized Nazi authorities. While Witnesses contended that they were apolitical and that their actions were not anti-Nazi, their unwillingness to give the Nazi salute, to join party organizations or to let their children join the Hitler Youth..."

"...their unwillingness to adorn their homes with Nazi flags made them suspect."

"Some Witnesses were tortured in attempts to make them sign declarations renouncing their faith, but few capitulated to this pressure."

"An estimated 1,000 German Jehovah's Witnesses died or were murdered in concentration camps and prisons during the Nazi era, as did 400 Witnesses from other countries, including about 90 Austrians and 120 Dutch persons. (The non-German Jehovah's Witnesses suffered a considerably higher percentage of deaths than their German co-religionists.) In addition, at least 273 Jehovah's Witnesses were sentenced to death by military courts for refusing military service were executed."

-----

***Disturbing content***

Notice of Gregor Wohlfahrt's execution:

"Authorities in Berlin, Germany, sent this notice to Barbara Wohlfahrt, informing her of her husband Gregor's execution on the morning of December 7, 1939. Although he was physically unfit to serve in the armed forces, the Nazis tried Wohlfahrt for his religious opposition to military service. As a Jehovah's Witness, Wohlfahrt believed that military service violated the biblical commandment not to kill. On November 8, 1939, a military court condemned Wohlfahrt to beheading, a sentence carried out one month later in Ploetzensee prison in Berlin."

-----

To be clear, many of the JW's choices and positions during the war were not 100% due to objections to Naziism but rather were due to their religious beliefs that forbade many of the beliefs and actions demanded of them by the Nazi regime. IOW, their choices and actions would be the same in any society at any time. The reasons for their "resistance" were entirely due to their pre-existing mandates such as refusal to serve in the military, to salute any country's flag or to engage in politics in any way including not voting in elections.

To me, that fact doesn't negate the individual courage of people who stand up for their beliefs no matter what the consequences may be, even if horrific (such as the man mentioned above who was beheaded).

I highly doubt that I would be so strong. I hope so, if it ever came to something that matters a great deal.

Sounds like Modified BLIND OBEDIENCE to me:

contrast: Do What Is Right, Let The Consequences Follow...

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like Modified BLIND OBEDIENCE to me:

Oh yes. JWs put great store in obedience as one's north star. No questions. No personal choices.

I cannot begin to imagine being "obedient" to the point of accepting a fate of being beheaded. Unless it was a situation in which there was absolutely no choice perhaps.

Maybe in a few isolated cases here and there in this life there is something worth giving up one's life for but for the sake of "obedience"? I would have a hard time succumbing to that principle.

Maybe why I'm not so successful with these "blind faith" types of churches. But I put myself through the mill - twice - to figure that out.

Follow the money.

If a church condemns the leader, it loses its ability to operate legally, collecting tithes and offerings.

Boyd's unwritten unspoker rule #1: Don't disrupt the income stream.

Don't forget that the Nazi Salute was a US salute.. The Ballamy Salute. Used when one recited the Pledge of Allegiance. Later replaced by the hand over the heart as Germany and Hitler used it for their Nazi party rallies.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/bellamy-salute

They kowtowed because they wanted to keep the missionary thing going. Some Mormons said that Hitler was a great man. One might think that Hitler's extermination of Jews would make Mormons think otherwise. Even when we were at war with Germany, one might think they would have abandoned the ideas about salvaging the missions. But church leadership, even if not supporting Hitler and the Nazis, held onto the anti-Semitism. J. Reuben Clark, as I have understood it, remained very anti-Semitic. So the church named the BYU law school after him.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... J. Reuben
> Clark, as I have understood it, remained very
> anti-Semitic. So the church named the BYU law
> school after him.

Here's a good summary about the sorry saga of JRC, posted by Steve Benson a few years ago:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2384501,2384501#msg-2384501


Excerpt from Steve's post re some quotes from Clark (***offensive***):

"A review of D. Michael Quinn's biography, "Elder Statesman: A Biography of J. Reuben Clark" (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 2002), offers this brutal assessment of the man, accurately described as Clark's "seamier side":

"As a Jew, I found his [Clark's] views utterly contemptible: 'There was one group . . . for whom Reuben expressed lifelong dislike and distrust–the Jewish people. In a 1942 letter to Herbert Hoover, he said the Jews 'are brilliant, they are able, they are unscrupulous, and they are cruel.’ Part of this explanation for his anti-Semitism was personal and part political. He expressed contempt for ‘the foul sewage of Europe’ in his 1898 valedictory, yet Mormons had traditionally gotten along very well with the small population of Jews in Utah” (p. 325). He never passed up an opportunity to express his contempt for Jews. After serving more than 10 years in the First Presidency, he wrote, 'I long ago ceased reading his [Walter Lippmann's] stuff, because he veers like a weather-vane, but I am sure always true when the wind blows from Jew-ward' (p. 328)."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2024 08:13PM by Nightingale.

Why is there so much negativity towards this King in the House of Israel? In 1993 this person was annointed in a temple of our God to be a King unto the Most High God to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever.

https://www.mrm.org/adolph-hitler-record

Next time I serve a mission I may share this news in every synagogue in my mission area as a way to win the hearts and minds of the people with our wondrous gospel message. There's no need to be shy about what's been done.

I wonder how much positive PR we'd get out of me sharing such a message about this King? Will it help us get more baptisms and get more people assimilated to learn about this Forever King in Israel who will rule and reign in Israel forever? We sure do have quite the wondrous Church.

Hitler also had Eva Braun sealed to him as his eternal wife.

Don't see it on the referenced record. Supposed to have happened.

Any actual record we can check?

"We believe in being subject..."

Right!

Hitler was elected
Putin was elected
Pol Pot was elected

What do you people have against democracy?

A Mormon/BYU film maker just released a film called Escape From Germany. It's about Mormon missionaries who were serving in Germany in 1939, just before Hitler invaded Poland. My FB friend posted that his grandfather was serving in Germany at the time and secretly filmed Nazi activity with his kodak video camera. His footage was used for the film. Here's a review of the film from imdb.com:

"T. C. Christiansen delivers again in this inspirational true story set in the backdrop of the beginning of WWII. A call comes from then president and prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to a mission leader in Germany. The message: Germany will invade Poland in 3 days. Three days later Germany begins mobilizing the military. This movie is about the miracles that ensue and how God will guide any of his children as they turn to him. It is also a reminder of the atrocities committed against the Jewish people at this time. This reminder is sadly still relevant in our world today. A great film for the entire family."

It appears that angels were hovering around the Mormon missionaries but not the Jews who were rounded up and placed in death camps. The imdb movie review suggests that those who turn to God will have miracles. I'm sure the Jews prayed to God but they didn't belong to the only true church so God ignored them.

of Baptism your sins are forgiven. That is what I was taught and what I taught. So I guess as bad as he was his sins are forgiven. I would imagine he might even have a second anointing if it could be given.

I am very serious when I say this just shows that the Church does not know what they are doing. I mentioned this years ago to a SP in an interview how this could happen to Hitler. And he said maybe we and the jews do not have a clear understanding of death. Maybe death is not as terrible as we think it is. I know I went THF in my head. If your in a gas chamber dying how could a merciful God allow that to happen. The fact that he was baptized and that was never disavowed tells me a lot about the Church leadership.

It was at the time I was trying to get a sealing clearance and I had to list every sin I ever committed. Anyways I stopped the process and did not follow through.

Just writing this pain my heart to know what Hitler put people through. And to think he was baptized and his sins are forgiven. And then to receive the Priesthood. And then to be sealed. And I had to fill out a form listing all the sins my wives (as I was married more that once) and I committed so I could get sealed to another woman. And they had just had a court for me and brought me back into fellowship after 16 years being disfellowshipped. I thought my sins were forgiven when I was brought back into the Church. No I had to list them any ways. Took me 6 months to fill the form out and two interviews with Bishop and SP and then stuff was submitted to SLC and I got a letter back saying I was good to go but need a special recommend that required two more interviews. That's when i quite. Yet Hitler can get baptized and be cleaned from his sins!!!!

Sorry this post was a trigger for me. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with the picture or is my thinking off.

SEcular Priet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> of Baptism your sins are forgiven. That is what I
> was taught and what I taught. So I guess as bad as
> he was his sins are forgiven. I would imagine he
> might even have a second anointing if it could be
> given.

Forgiveness at being dunked?
What about the victims of Hitler, Pol Pot, Putin, et al?

Repentance? How does that occur without restitution???

When I was active, I was taught that there was no forgiveness for sexual sins bc you 'can't un-ring a bell' e.g. you can't restore chastity, especially can't restore virginity of your gf!

All Promises of religion, especially from ChurchCo are crap-ola, they're not consistent with their own teachings 'doctrine'.

No, your thinking is not off.

The one thing that you, me, and others who have had to deal with TSCC, is to remember that it is a false organization, built on lies, deceit, and dare I say: murder? (MMM)

IMO, this TSCC turns members against each other and creates all kinds of havoc.

Remember Helmuth Hubener? He was against the Nazis and was turned in to his stake prez. The stake prez then told the Nazis, like the good little obedient citizen that he was, and Helmuth was promptly tried and executed.

after he was Ex’d

"On December 10, 1993, someone went into the London, England temple and was baptized on the behalf of Adolf Hitler."

https://www.mrm.org/adolph-hitler-record

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,597467

Yes, the temple work for Adolf Hitler has been done.

What about Jeffrey Dahmer?