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Posted by: ballboy ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 05:52AM

Please bear in mind that BYU was mostly built and funded out of church monies which come out of tithing etc.

As someone once said American universities are sports facilities with an educational charity attached to them.

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2024/04/16/byu-basketball-hires-kevin-young-head-coach/

"Matt Norlander of CBS Sports has reported that while the “process is not through yet,” Young will be given a seven-year, $30 million contract."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/byu-to-hire-kevin-young-as-coach-phoenix-suns-assistant-to-lead-cougars-after-mark-pope-takes-over-kentucky/

"Phoenix Suns top assistant Kevin Young will be the next coach at BYU, sources told CBS Sports on Tuesday. The deal, which is official but not fully finalized, is for seven years and in the neighborhood of $30 million over the life of the contract, per a source."

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 10:06AM

His name is Young ?

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 11:23AM

Someone please explain to me how and why a sports coach and/or the players are more valuable than any nurse, doctor, teacher, scientist, responsible acting parents (which includes single parents shouldering most of the responsiblity for raising their children).

All of these people, plus many others that I haven't listed, are worth more than their weight in gold.

I will never understand people and their screwed up priorities.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 11:33AM

I don't get it either.

Actually, I don't get a lot of things.

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Posted by: S. Richard Bellrock ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 12:06PM

This is one of my pet peeves too.
I don't begrudge people making lots of money--good for him and his family. But it does piss me off that there are teachers and nurses and day care providers who are more talented, and making actual real life daily differences that are actually making the world a better place who have to worry about how they are going to make the mortgage and feed the kids.

My guess is that BYU is looking at return on investment. They can market a BBall team. They can attract sponsorships and alumni dollars based on sports, whereas you can't market having the best nurses. Alumni don't donate based on having the highest quality daycare. I suspect that spending 30 mil on a coach will actually benefit them more than it costs.

Not that it's right. It just illustrates how badly societal values are effed.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 12:27PM

  
  
  

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Posted by: Silence is Golden ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 01:31PM

Sports is emotion, and the best way to get money out of people is through emotion. Sports capitalizes on that premise.

LDS Corp. is all about the money, so yes they are going to jump on that bandwagon. Even though it contradicts everything they say at General Conference.

I agree that sports in general is way over priced as well as over paid. But its the emotion of people that has made it the juggernaut it is today.

You would be more likely to successfully herd cats over convincing people that sports is nothing more than a momentary entertainment venue that is draining your checking account.

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Posted by: Betty G ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 01:33PM

It is capitalism.

You have someone who has a perceived skill set that is in greater demand than others. In this instance you may have a few hundred that have the skill set of the coach that they are looking for. There may only be a few dozen that they feel they want to hire.
Others also want that person to work for them.

There are probably a million teachers, several tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of doctors, and millions of parents. Doctors are paid quite handsomely but not as much as this coach because there are more of them with their skill set.

It's the value of the market. Supply and demand. Certain sports are popular and bring in money. The people in those sports who control or play the sport are a limited asset and thus people pay more for what is less available, even if it isn't as important as something like a teacher.

It's like water. It's one of the most important resources on earth. You pay more for gold or emeralds per pound than you do for water, even though water is far more important.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 07:01PM

Betty, I see it primarily as a business deal. BYU will make that $30 million back and more with broadcast rights, sponsorships, licensed clothing, alumni donations and support, etc.

But I'm also mindful of the fact that corporate executives have been paid millions of dollars to drive perfectly good companies into the ground -- Sears, Bed Bath & Beyond, and Borders books being just a few examples. I always joke that I could have destroyed those companies for a much more modest salary than those executives made.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 07:10PM

"It's the value of the market"

Not that the creators of that market see much return. Ask Dr. J.

You have pioneers and colonizers. Capitalism rewards the colonizers.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 01:48PM

valkyriequeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone please explain to me how and why a sports
> coach and/or the players are more valuable than
> any nurse, doctor, teacher, scientist, responsible
> acting parents (which includes single parents
> shouldering most of the responsiblity for raising
> their children).
>
> All of these people, plus many others that I
> haven't listed, are worth more than their weight
> in gold.

Exactly my first thought too. Just for fun I compiled a list of Very. Valuable. Folks.

Meaningful careers/Useful to Society (Partial List/No particular order):

Teacher, School counsellor

Physician, Nurse, Dentist, Home health aide, Social worker, Rehab specialist, physiotherapist, occupational therapist, optometrist

Police officer, Firefighter, Paramedic, Dispatcher (911 calls)

Multiple specialists in health sector

Veterinarian

Engineer

Environmental scientist

Construction worker

Judge, Lawyer

Librarian

Truck drivers

Grocery workers

Cleaners

Farmers

Builders

Craftspeople

Emergency management coordinator

Occupational health and safety officer

Home Support worker

Humanitarian aid worker

Investigative journalist

Conservationist

Meteorologist

Pilot

Accountant

Government

Journalists

Writers/authors

Summary:

“Three most important classes in society”:

Farm/gatherer – society’s food producers

Builder – construct society’s buildings etc, maintain existing
structures

Warrior – protect society

-----

Of course, the order of importance is in the eye of the beholder - whatever an individual feels is the most important or most meaningful types of work or whichever professions they credit for improving or even saving their life.

The world of sports can bring strangers together in a positive way. It also creates magnificent moments of glory and joy.

Maybe it's not a case of paying inspirational players too much but of not paying countless individuals nearly enough for the work and effort they exert to ensure positive outcomes for individuals in certain situations and for society in general.

It would be most welcome for Joe and Jill Lunchbucket to receive a little slice of that magnificent wage packet many athletes take home. Some folks are fortunate to be born with a special talent that pays them extraordinarily well. Of course, they have to put in the work to maximize their chances of success. I cheer as loudly for a skilled hockey player pulling off an amazing and inspiring play as anybody else. But I also try to show my appreciation to the many non-athletes and non-celebrities who people the world and help make so many lives better just by showing up to work every day and giving the job their best efforts. That's what I do myself and a thanks here and there is always welcome.

As a kid I used to wish I'd been born a great singer. No such luck. I can't carry a tune in a bucket. It's rough when your ambition exceeds your degree of talent. :P



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2024 01:53PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: tilt ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 10:54PM

Except for doctors (maybe), my observation is that the more necessary for human survival a job is, the less it is paid.

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Posted by: Quincunx ( )
Date: May 01, 2024 04:36PM

"Investigative journalist"

Almost non-existent outside of Hollywood movies. Most journalists just rewrite press agency copy. AI is gonna take their jobs now...

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Posted by: Infrequent Observer ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 04:35PM

There is no question that a doctor is more valuable to any single individual than a basketball coach. But, a doctor can't see 18k patients and half a million or more people on video conference over a two hour period.

Even if each in person in the arena paid only $1 of their ticket price towards the coach and the TV viewers only paid $.05 each, the doctor would have to charge the equivalent of $43,000 in a 2 hour span to equal the collective value. I'd probably resent it if my 10 minute visit cost me $3500...and I value my doctor a great deal.

It's a matter of the scope of the value, not the individual comparison. I don't even watch basketball.

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Posted by: BoydKKK ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 07:06PM

valkyriequeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone please explain to me how and why a sports
> coach and/or the players are more valuable than
> any nurse, doctor, teacher, scientist, responsible
> acting parents (which includes single parents
> shouldering most of the responsiblity for raising
> their children).
>
> All of these people, plus many others that I
> haven't listed, are worth more than their weight
> in gold.
>
> I will never understand people and their screwed
> up priorities.

-------------------------

To quote James Caan as a football coach in the movie THE PROGRAM: When was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a damn kid do a Chemistry experiment?

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Posted by: nouk ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 10:37AM

I agree completely with your post. I heard someone say years ago that we pay people well who help us forget who we are (athletes, entertainers, etc.). Those who remind us who we are (social workers, teachers, and the like) we pay poorly. Maybe that notion says a lot about the human state of mind.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 12:25PM

any relation to ... ?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 12:28PM

GNPE Wrote:
-----------------------
> any relation to ... ?

Steve Benson?    Probably...

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 01:55PM

Hahahahaha!

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Posted by: Toronto Boy ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 02:27PM

According to our Canadian tax records Canada tithing goes to BYU as it can not be sent to the Church. So now I know that Canadian tithing money is improperly spent!!!!!

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 02:34PM

Toronto Boy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to our Canadian tax records Canada
> tithing goes to BYU as it can not be sent to the
> Church.

Can you explain this TB? (I live in B.C.) Is there a rule re tithing $$$?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 02:51PM

Salt Lake Tribune story on 11/02/2022:

    "You may have been reading about new questions surrounding the finances and charitable giving of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — specifically up north, in Canada, and Down Under, in Australia.

    "This story provides a summary of those findings along with reports about the latest membership numbers from those nations:
BYU’s Canadian pipeline

    "The Utah-based church has funneled more than $1 billion in the past 15 years from Canada to its three Brigham Young University campuses in the U.S.

    "Most of that tax-free money, according to an investigation by 'The Fifth Estate,' came from the tithing of the 200,000 or so members who live in Canada.

    "In 2010 alone, the church sent almost $103 million across the border to BYU, the news show reported this week, and more than $93 million last year.

    "No one doubts the church’s right to shuffle this money — under Canadian law — but some question if it’s the right thing to do because it deprives the Canadian treasury of taxes.

    “'The church is taking away [the Canadian] government’s ability to fund health care, the ability to fund education, the ability to provide other essential services,' accountant Nigel Kennett, a Latter-day Saint, told The Fifth Estate, the CBC’s equivalent of 60 Minutes.  'It’s done little to benefit the people here, and it has done everything ... to fill the coffers in Salt Lake.'

    "The program quoted tax experts who said the money steered to the three BYU campuses — which include small percentages of Canadian students — cost other Canadian taxpayers 16 to 28 cents for every dollar donated.  The total hit to the country’s tax wallet could reach $280 million.

    "A church spokesperson said, 'the tax provision administered by the Canada Revenue Agency is both legitimate and well-known.'


"On the up and up Down Under?

    "This news from up north comes in the wake of similar tax concerns from Down Under, where news outlets raised questions about whether the church has been dodging taxes in Australia by forming a “charitable trust fund” and directing members to send their tithing there.

    "Australia does not allow tax deductions for church donations, but it does permit generous write-offs for charitable giving.

    "The Sydney Morning Herald reported this week that the church overstated its charitable contributions by more than $1 billion between 2008 and 2020.

    "The church has asserted that its global giving — through its humanitarian arm, Latter-day Saint Charities — grew by $1.35 billion during that time frame.  But an analysis by a partnership of news organizations put that total at $177 million.

    “'The Mormon church will have you believe that it’s a religion that dabbles in business,' Ryan McKnight, a former Latter-day Saint and co-founder of the now-closed MormonLeaks website, told The Sydney Morning Herald.  'But the evidence clearly shows that they are a business dabbling in religion.'
A church spokesperson responded, saying that the faith of 16.8 million members 'uses its resources to carry out its divinely appointed mission.'

    "Religion News Service columnist Jana Riess said, 'this kind of financial practice looks terrible for the church. It feels covert and deceptive. ...  It’s unfair to the Australian government, which has been shortchanged millions in taxes.  And it’s unfair to those tithe-paying Latter-day Saints Down Under who had a right to assume their tithing was going where it was supposed to.'”

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/11/02/whats-up-with-lds-finances/ (I think it's pay-walled...)

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 03:21PM

Yikes. So many numbers to wrap my head around, not my favourite thing. But enlightening (what I can comprehend of it). This does sound vaguely familiar now - likely we've chatted about it before. Too bad for Cdn taxpayers - we need a few breaks - like whatever keeping the $$$ up here could provide.

The amounts of $$$ are astronomical. You'd think the church could give folks a break and reduce the tithing demands to 7 or 8% from 10 and also make it truly voluntary, not mandated if you want to keep all the goodies that go along with being Mormon. :/

Also, on net not gross. It's an outrageous "principle".

And with all their $$$ the church should surely be giving more towards truly charitable works, with no strings attached and no ulterior motives.

It's too bad (yet predictable I guess) that not much has seemed to come from the exposé by The Fifth Estate. Like - nobody cares?!

On another note: Up North and Down Under. I love the language we use to denote places. Informal and cute and cozy.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 09:15PM

Ha - I'm on that thread. How soon we (I) forget!

But thanks for the info. I will refresh my memory.

And be astounded and annoyed anew.

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 02:53PM

Of course it is out of kilter when compared with other jobs and professions. It is not out of order in the realm of college sports and is.low.compared to what some coaches make. Sports sell a lot of tickets and TV revenue can offer huge returns for a top competitor. BYU is competing in a power league and that requires them to compete for top personnel if they wish to succeed. It is what it is. I am more surprised that Kentucky hired the BYU coach.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 03:37PM

    It'll be fun when college athletes figure out how to unionize, or whatever it takes, to get paid a decent share of the revenues they generate.

    A step towards that end occurred when student-athletes were allowed to broker deals with businesses to endorse products.  But only wildly popular student-athletes are able to cash in.  It won't be fair until football linemen start pulling down a decent share of what their teams earn for their schools/employers.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 03:33PM

As long as members pull down his pants to make sure he's wearing church underwear, spending 30M is no problem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2024 03:39PM by messygoop.

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Posted by: Subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 03:45PM

“BYU NAMES AMBER WHITING HEAD WOMEN'S BASKETBALL COACH”
I need to google how much Amber Whiting makes? Is she also getting 30 millions?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 03:56PM

"You have to be a real male member to win any prizes in mormonism."

      --Judic West, prize-winning anatomist

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 12:24PM


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Posted by: calianon ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 02:18PM

they pay what the market bears. thanks to Katlin Clark (and increased ratings/revenue for women's bb) you will start to see an increase in the salaries of NCAA women's bb coaches.

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 06:45PM

Remember, too, they get 10% of that 30 million back.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 07:15PM

Good point. Plus, he can't skimp on tithing because everyone knows how much it should be.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 07:48PM

If he is intelligent, Young will do what rich Mormons like Romney and Huntsman do: set up an LLC.

An LLC is a limited liability company that can be as small as a one-person entity. He could call it something like Young Coaching Enterprises, have BYU deposit his salary into it, and then pay himself, say, 100,000 per year from that company.

He'd pay tax and tithing on that 100,000 but the rest of the money would then sit untaxed in the LLC, where it could be invested in the money market, bonds, stocks, or anything else, and thereby grow over time. None of it would count as income until he closed out the LLC and realized his profits in 10, 20, 30 years--basically whenever he wanted.

That's how rich people in the US pay effective tax rates of 11% in Romney's case (2016 data) or 0% year after year as Trump has done.

And it works even better for one who is obligated to pay tithing. The church does not scrutinize such dodges because it does not want to offend the rich and powerful.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 08:54PM

Wouldn’t an LLC be subject to corporate taxes? I think that’s lower than individual income tax, but it’s not nothing. Except when it is nothing, but that’s another topic.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 09:01PM

LLCs are taxed but at a much lower rate, I believe subject to correction, than individuals or regular corporations. Young could also pay all his business-related expenses through the LLC, which would be more advantageous from a tithing perspective than paying them personally.

My broader point, though, is that the tax code is written to give rich people many more options and loopholes than are available to working stiffs.

Rich people make sure that the poor will always be with us.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: April 18, 2024 09:03PM

LLCs can be taxed as S corps with the amount of wages that pass through for federal taxation controlled by the owner(s).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2024 09:07PM by Beth.

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Posted by: Silence is Golden ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 12:02PM

He is a contractor, not an employee.

He will be set up as a Corporation. However, where is the corporations legal location?

Be assured he has an agreement with a firm that does this kind of stuff for a fee, which in the long run will help him keep as much of that 30 Million as possible.

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Posted by: S. Richard Bellrock ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 04:34PM

He could set himself up as a religion and pay no taxes.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 20, 2024 01:03AM

:)

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 12:39PM

can the $30 mill be delivered as a Stipend, same as for GAs & MPs?


My scant knowledge of the corporation rules is that he can't set himself as a LLC, he's clearly an employee.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 03:59PM

The IRS has a name for "stipend". It's "income". GAs are taxed on their income.

Mission Presidents are not taxed, because they receive no income. All they receive is reimbursement for actual expenses. The Church is quite generous in what it will reimburse or pay for directly, like a plane ticket home once a year for family members, housing and transportation expense, university tuition, yada yada, It is all reimbursement. For example the MP can't decide to skip the plane ticket and take the cash instead.

No doubt the GAs also have lots of paid perks too that the church is very careful to make sure is not taxable, but the stipend - that's actual money that they receive that is not a reimbursement or a benefit provided "for the benefit of the employer", or whatever that phrase is.

Lots of tech companies provide free lunches for their employees that are not taxable benefits to the employees. The employer does it because it keeps the employees at their desks longer.

Anyway, a stipend is taxable income.

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Posted by: calianon ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 02:15PM

Most of his salary is being paid by donors. With the Jazz owner, Ryan Smith being the main donor.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 02:32PM

I think it's a safe bet that the 'donations' are made in a way that makes them tax deductible.

It's not that I'm a cynic...

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 02:35PM

O.K., but Young can't tax-dodge them.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 02:52PM

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, indeed he can!

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 04:11PM

His income will presumably be pay for services rendered, so he will have a much smaller list of ways to avoid taxes than, say, someone who is running a company, and has access to all sorts of tax credits for creating jobs for other, building subsidized housing projects, etc. Working stiffs, even rich ones, have fewer ways to hide their income.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 04:18PM

Okay. Unless his contract is made public, we’ll never know what deal was negotiated and how his pay is structured. All I can say is that corporate finance was once my job, and you’d be amazed at how creative lawyers and accountants can be when it comes to structuring pay packages. Even for “rich working stiffs.”

ETA: By definition, working stiffs aren’t rich, and this guy’s position certainly isn’t run of the mill.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2024 04:23PM by Beth.

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Posted by: calianin ( )
Date: April 19, 2024 03:26PM

I'm sure they are. But that's not my point.

The point is that the church (I'm an ex) didn't fund this from tithing. In-fact the church has held BYU sports back by not paying (or even allowing) others to pay market value for coaches because they felt that it gave the appearance of misuse of tithing dollars for BYU sports.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 20, 2024 02:13PM

Back in the Era- days when they cared...

just sayin'

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Posted by: Shawshank Redeemed ( )
Date: April 22, 2024 07:45AM

It isn't a question of whether he is mostly funded out of tithing, it is a question of whether he got ANY tithing funds at all. A single widow's mite would be a disgrace.

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