I was a Mormon for 57 years. Left the church 18 months ago.

As a child I was taught to shun blacks and stick my tongue out at them. I was afraid of blacks until I got to High School and realized what I had been missing. I was never allowed to have these friends to my home,or go to their homes.But we had fun at school. 25 years ago,and after adopting 4 children, we thought we were going to be able to adopt a beautiful black baby.The agency said no,I cried for a week. I wanted this baby! They thought not. I know in the long run it was the best because my in-laws are very racists. They treat my full Hispanic 8 year old dd much different than my other kids. We seldom see the in-laws.

As a child I was also taught that gays were perverts,lazy,not bright. I was very sheltered and didn't think for myself much. As I got older I started to question,but even as a mother many times over there is the intense brain washing. I accept full responsibility for my feelings. I have had to deal with my unconcern for the gay population by having no relationship with my 37 year old dd. She never forgave me for voting yes on Prop. 8. I have tried to make it right with her,sent her letters of apologies,to no avail. The minute I left the morg I left all my judgemental ways behind. My then 6 year old dd put it right in my face. The first day at her new gym her little teammate said "all my moms are gay." To which my dd responded "so?" Honest. This little girl is now one of her best friends and her moms are some of my best friends. They are 2 of the 3 women I trust most with my children. They are the same moms and girls that were swimming at my pool yesterday. I pound the table with them as we discuss the stupidity of not allowing same sex couples to marry. I have said many times on this board-who the hell cares who you marry? It affects the ones trying to keep marriage away from gays how? I don't get it-never will.

My friend. I would do anything to help her through all she is going through. As I said before,her husband really is a despicable man. When a man calls his wife a c- a whore,a stupid idiot and worthless human being,and you are standing right there-yeah. I hate this man. She is trying to figure out where things went so terrible wrong. He was never really very nice,but nothing like the man he has become. Mid life crises? He is 36 so very possible (as far as the gay aspect of it and possibly his dealing with his own sexuality that he kept in the closet.)I wanted rational,sensitive things suggested to me so I can share with her. She is so angry about the possibility she is texting him and saying crude things. This scares me because of his abuse towards her and the kids. So I am trying to help her with something I know nothing about. She is getting on with her life,has moved out and is in a better place. This was just a curve ball on top of everything else that has happened to her. She is a wonderful mom and has great kids.

GayLayAleJesus-thank you for your insight. Especially thankyou for treating me with respect. I in no way meant the question to be offensive or suggestive. I think it is really a shame when someone is treated with such disrespect because of a question. I have posted on this board for over a year,and if you were to look up any of my posts that concerned gay issues you would see I am absolutely not anti-gay. I followed your story GayLayAleJesus and it was gut wrenching. What a strong man you are to have come out of what you have with your humor and sense of self still intact.You are one of my heros-I have told you that before.

So brainwashed Mormon for 57 years. 18 months out of my closet that kept all my judgmental ways inside it. I am a much better person since leaving the morg. And I am not what a lot of you labeled me. I am actually one of the most giving,friendly people you will ever meet.

So again...Sorry if I offended. It was the last thing I intended.

Thank you for not storming off the board in a huff over the dustup this morning. Your honesty is so refreshing!

We're ALL trying to overcome the Mormon programming to some degree. It's great that you recognize how skewed your perceptions were while in the Morg. Our thought processes change as we get further from the brainwashing. I, for one, think you've made great progress! Although I can't tell you how sorry I am about the estrangement from your daughter.

I have a bunch of adopted kids, too . . . some special needs, a beautiful little black child who is the light of my life, and a teenaged bi-sexual daughter, plus a couple of Russians thrown into the mix. We are what is known as a "Rainbow Family." It breaks my heart in two when any of my kids are discriminated against in any way. As the mother of your hispanic child, I'm sure you understand that feeling.

Anyway, loveskids, I realize you didn't mean any harm by your choice of words in your original post today. And I'm glad you were able to take a deep breath, listen to the criticism coming your way, re-evaluate, and then come back on the board to eat a little slice of humble pie. ;o) I've had to do the same thing myself at times.

Your friend is lucky to have you. And so are we.

;o)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 09:47PM by shannon.

+1

Do you think this question is respectful of blacks?

"Is my friend's husband black? He eats fried chicken and watermelon, and he went into a bar that caters to blacks".

You may not have intended the question to be offensive, but it was. It was every bit as offensive as defining black people via the eating watermelon and fried chicken. Can you understand that?

Sorry, but the first reply I gave was very respectful, your ad hominid attack incorrectly and disrespectfully trying to label me as angry was what was disrespectful.

Sorry, until you disrespected those that politely gave you legitimate answers (incorrectly labeling them as angry), you were NOT treated with disrespect.


Sorry, not buying the victim role. Your inappropriate use of stereotypes was the problem NOT THE RESPONSES TO YOU.

Saying that what you posted was offensive is not at all the same as saying you are anti-gay. Do you understand the difference?

I never saw the original post. But this woman apologized as best she could for whatever she did that offended, so give her a break, please. What more can she say or do? She tried her best to make it right, but that is just never good enough for certain people.

I stand firmly with Rebekah and WCG on this one. I have been the object of your anger before when I was ignorant about atheism, offended you completely unintentionally, apologized over and over and you just would not let it go. Are you always right, really? Most of us are not.

"I think it is really a shame when someone is treated with such disrespect because of a question."

What kind of apology is it if they make the same accusations after the apology?

And of course she is only "apologizing" for the question, not her abusive personal attacks here:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250393#msg-250393

and here:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250416#msg-250416

if you know what I mean. This is a good place to learn some very valuable life lessons that we missed in Sunday School.

Actually, MJ, you DO come across as angry quite often. She's apologized and you continue to berate her. What does that say about you?

How I come across in other threads SHOULD NOT BE THE ISSUE. But let's look at what ACTUALLY happened shall we?

Loveskids posts a question that is as offensive as trying to claim eating watermelon and fried chicken are defining characteristics of blacks.

Both Pista and I posted non angry and respectful responses.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250391#msg-250391
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250385#msg-250385

Now, let's see how loveskids responded, shall we?

Here response to me:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250393#msg-250393

Not at all respectful and she does not seem to be able to remember what she said from post to post. In her first post she clearly says "This man is the biggest ass in the world,and I hate him" but in her response to me, she seems to have totally forgot that she stated where she hated when she said "Excuse me MJ. My hate for what???? What the hell are you talking about? I don't understand your intense anger." "And please tell me what I hate because I have no idea." So, tell me Rebeca where in my post to her was all this intense anger and why is she going off on me acting like she never mentioned hate when she clearly did?

The tone of the response from loves kids to me was clearly angry AND IMHO abusive.

Now let's take a look at how she responded to Pista:

Again and undeserved attack claiming anger where there was none. Clearly loveskids was angry, but not Pista.

And where did she apologize?

Here?

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250416#msg-250416

Nope, her sarcastic remarks and continuing to falsely claim I gave an angry response can not be considered a true apology. Sorry, but an apology that repeats the false accusation "The way you reacted to the way I posted tells me you are an angry person"

So, where is any sincere apology from loveskids? Nowhere.

So, unless you can tell me where the FUCK in my first post that I was angry or attacking HER PERSONAL the way SHE attacked ME PERSONAL, you don't have a valid point, the facts, as I have documented, speak for themselves.

You can try to discredit me by dragging in other posts, but that does NOT account for loveskids angry attack on Pista.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 10:44PM by MJ.

Let it go, MJ! Are you unable to just let it go now? Why do you do this to people over and over? Really, why? Does it give you some kind of pleasure? I really do not get you at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 11:00PM by think4u.

And why I should NOT stand up to the false accusations being made about me personally?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 11:02PM by MJ.

You HAVE certainly stood up for yourself, over and over. Once would have done it, don't you think?

Everyone hears you, we understand how you feel, but you continue to keep up with the punishing, and to that I must ask, why?

I know well how she feels, because I have been severely punished in the same way by you. It really hurt me, because I was trying so hard to make it right. My apology was sincere and hers is as well. Forgiving is just a good thing to do.

What we also hear here is that you cannot let go when a sincere apology has been given. Did she do something that is honestly unforgivable? Please take a moment and think about what others here, including me, are telling you about how we perceive you, and that who is right or wrong really does not matter at this point. No one cares any more about that.

And yes, you may be totally right, but people's feelings are more important than proving oneself to be right at any cost. Especially when an honest apology has been given.

So please, give her and me a break.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 11:20PM by think4u.

Sorry, but the attacks have continued, and as long as they have continued I will continue to defend myself.

Sorry, the there is a whole thread here that obviously does NOT understand how I feel, if they did, they would be jumping all over loveskids for HER angry personal attacks and not me for defending myself.

So, why is it that you are not being critical of THIS spewing of anger and personal attacks?

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250393#msg-250393
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250416#msg-250416

Because it is OVER MJ, and no one cares any more that you were right. She admitted she was wrong and sorry. Forgive, let go, move on. Honestly, what more would you like her to do? I am NOT the only one telling you this.

I would not even say this to you if I did not care about you. And that is the truth. It is not easy to tell someone what they cannot seem to see about their own behavior that is disturbing, and the truth is I do know enough about you and your story to care.

My younger sister is gay, not a finer person do I know, she is perfect in my eyes. I as well had much learning to do when I left the church at age 56. Do you even remember how you hammered me on a principle I was having a hard time grasping- that evolution does not preclude the possibility that some sort of God exists. I learned from you, but in a very condescending way. It hurt and I felt totally humiliated by you, but I finally got it. I see here and often actually the same type of insistant hurtful need to punish so that you can be right. Would you not just rather forgive and move on? I wish you only the best, really do.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 11:42PM by think4u.

And why is it that you are critical of ME while IGNORING the true culprit?

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250393#msg-250393
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250416#msg-250416

Oh, and do show me how much nobody cares by posting again to tell me how wrong I am. Of course you have never shown where I was wrong anywhere, all you seem to want to do is to make it wrong for me to stand up and defend myself.

This will be my last post here, but to answer your question, I am posting so much because I feel deeply for loveskids, as I was once newly out and totally in her shoes with you. I am trying to defend her, that is all.

And btw, your NEED to be right is over the top, as usual. Think about it, is it worth it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 11:50PM by think4u.

Totally agree WCG.

Yes, you used some unsavory stereotypes but at least you learned from it and corrected it. There was no need to attack you.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250404#msg-250404
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250393#msg-250393

BTW, all that "My hate for what?" crap was truly abusive considering in her first post she clearly stated what "hate for what" when she said "This man is the biggest ass in the world,and I hate him" To then go off on me like she never said what she hated was totally unreasonable and IMHO abusive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 10:42PM by MJ.

I stand by everything I posted. I was offended by the way you phrased your question, but I believe I have thoroughly explained my position in the two threads. I never labeled you as anti-gay or anything else. I had a problem with your original post as well as the way you initially responded to my criticism, which was not a personal attack. I hope you understand the difference. I appreciate that you took the time to respond as you did here.

I also hope you were able to glean the advice I was trying to give. Based on my personal experience I believe it is valuable. If this woman is getting a divorce from a bad man, his sexuality is basically irrelevant to the point. Help her get through it if you can without reinforcing the negative stereotypes you seem to be working hard to overcome. As you can see, no good will come of it.

Also, be aware that this is a difficult process that SHE has to go through, and there is only so much that you can do for her, however much you would like to help.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 10:43PM by Pista.

If you exclude gay people from your lives, that's a heck of a lot of people who could be good friends and do good thing on your behalf. It's better to keep as many friends as you can, no matter what they are made of.

As for blacks, I've always been attracted to blacks the most. Why are blacks so beautiful to me? Damfino. I just know I like all the stuff that Brigham Young did NOT like. It was difficult for me to be in a large high school in my last two years (in Antelope Valley) during the 1960s, where we had a lot of black kids and I was strongly attracted to one of them. But the church situation meant that I couldn't even date her, and my other LDS friend gave me a lot of grief and kept saying that she was a "monkey." The really made me feel stupid and foolish.

Your friend having a mid-life crisis at 36? 36 is middle-aged? Jesus. Get real.

Wow. I understand you are angry at me. I accept that. But to post stupid things like "Your friend having a midlife crisis at 36? 36 is middle-aged? Jesus. Get real." I know I have sinned-do you want a blood atonement? I'm sorry I am not as bright as you. I know 36 is young for middle-aged,but only by a few years. A man living to be 80-40 is middle-aged.So I was what? 4 years premature.

I said nothing about excluding gays from my life. Read what I said.

I am really very surprised at how a few of you seem to like to beat a dead horse. And I love horses and don't mean that literally. I APOLOGIZED. I EXPLAINED MYSELF. It's not my problem if you want to continue to belittle me. I know what my intent was and that's all I need.


And this rambling about blacks and watermelon yada yada. Again everyone that said that. Read my post at the top of the page. I have 4 Polynesian children and one Hispanic. I fostered children of all nationalities. 4 were black and one of these little guys stayed with us a long time. We thought we might be able to adopt him. So yeah...I don't like blacks or gays. And I truly have a hard time with people that think they have all the answers and never want to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

Since I stuck my nose in the last thread I thought I'd post here. I hope my post wasn't taken as offensive or angry, it wasn't meant to be. If it was I apologize.

I'm glad you will continue to post here. There's a lot of good help to be had for everyone. I do hope that your friend gets the support they need.

Finally Free!-Thank you. I appreciate what you said in both posts. It's just really sad that something can get so twisted and made to seem so much worse than it was meant to be.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250393#msg-250393
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,250367,250416#msg-250416

BTW, do you remember where you talked about "hate" yet?

You can call it "defending" yourself all you want but you hijack threads and froth at the fingertips on a regular basis. Are you bipolar? Or are you just one of those people who thinks they're so special that they can do no wrong? Learn to state your point and then leave it, please! these constant threads you derail with your histrionics are sad.

You're almost always going to offend someone here with a post, this board is not for the faint of heart. Very classy of you to come back and clarify. Many others can learn from you. HINT HINT.

I did not see or read comments to the first post. I loved what you wrote here though. Too often people try to label us and don't know much about us at all. All you can do is speak up and explain and someone like me will see it for what it is worth and others will find a critical word or phrase in a sentence and try to prove you as being insincere. Just ignore those people as they are not forgiving, compassionate or able to see anyone else's viewpoint. It is a waste of time to even engage in conversation with people like that. Glad again that you came back to share more of your intent. Maybe I will catch the original thread at some point this eve.

lovekids I accept your apology, although I feel you barely owe one. Some people here are a little too PC and expect others to align 100% to their view of things otherwise they get all worked up.