I'm new here, so bear with me. I'm 18yo (prob shouldn't say my age but whatever lmao) and I'm still living in the church (hate it btw save me lol). I'm trying to get out, but it's so freaking hard. My great grandpa was a general authority, and my family is very religious. But after reading the CES letter, doing research, reading things from both sides, it's so incredibly obvious it's fake. I don't know how any critical thinking people can stay in the church. I digress, here's the meat of it:
I feel like the church is so repetitive. Every week is the same. And now every 4 years with Come Follow Me we'll be learning the same thing (and it was like that before too, I know). All the answers are the same. Pray, read your scriptures, ask God sincerely (pray), etc... There is nothing original. It's so confusing to me. On one side, I can see why it makes sense cause it's a religion and there isn't any new content. But also, there's only so many times I can have Jacob 5 (olive tree allegory) explained to me. Like damn, it's just so tedious to sit and do Come Follow Me with my family every night and have to give these obvious BS answers. I just wanna punch something. YOU KNOW THE ANSWER! Stop asking me questions that are phrased differently from different books of scripture, but that all have the same answer. Is this just me?
Thanks for reading if you did, hopefully I didn't break any forum rules. :)
I'm one of the board nevermos, as I was raised in another denomination. But I found church stifling as well. I was just thinking this morning how some people get something out of it each week. But I never did. It was the same old, same old.
Born and raised in the church, multi-generational. Family comes from immigrants who marched across the plains.
Yes it is tedious and some days it can drive you crazy. But let me give you advice from one who wished I was 18 again to replay that critical year of my life.
I did go on a mission and I did try to fit in, but it just did not work. I could never assimilate and spent my younger years looking from the outside in, and always being told I was the one with the problem.
So I would suggest you do not get into a confrontation with your family. You may not agree, but they are your family! Be respectful. But don't do what I did...go on a mission to please everybody.
What I should have done was get a job, save up money, and move out!. I have never given up my values and I follow some of the things I was taught growing up, because they just make good sense and keep you from doing stupid things.
Once out, its your life! Get a trade or education. Do what you want to do, and understand your family may not like it, lecture you, and guilt you. But stay the course, in time they will accept it, and you will be the better for it. Avoid marriage for a least a decade, figure out who you are, what you like, and what you can put up with. Stay away from the one who's goal is to marry in the temple. Your true friends will stick by your side, the others who leave because of your decision to get out, never were your friends.
I have similar heritage. Descendant of John Taylor, Brigham Young, and Orson Hyde.
I’m trying everything I can to avoid a mission. But I keep going to the openings for my friends and ward members and then people are always asking me when I’m putting my papers in, my mom keeps asking me to pray about it, etc. So angering to me. I’ve told my mom I’m not going, so I just want her to leave it alone.
I’ll have to get into a debate with my family at some point. I can’t just leave and not tell them why. They’ll ask for sure. I’m trying to compile all my evidence and I’m writing an essay type thing so hopefully it’ll explain it to them.
I graduate in about a month, so I’m trying to find somewhere to live. I want to get out of happy valley but going north is just so expensive.
I want to tell my friends, but I tried to talk to one today and I got screamed at over Snapchat. “I’ve had experiences and I’m going on a mission and you won’t change my mind.” I just want to share the facts, then you decide. I don’t know why that’s so hard. Anyways, going off topic sorry.
Not off-topic at all. Navigating your exit from TSCC (the so-called church), is a huge topic and lifelong undertaking for some here.
Welcome!
I’m also a nevermo but almost met with the missionaries in the mid to late 2000s. I was raised Southern Baptist and have Evangelical Lutherans and Episcopalians in my immediate family.
Pat yourself on the back for being able to detect BS so young. I was 40 before I figured out what there was no proof for anything the church claims. My standards for evidence don't include faith, feeling warm fuzzies, repetitive testimonies, etc.
I suggest you concentrate on education or a good career all you can until you can get into a situation where you don't have to deal with people holding the church over your head. Hopefully you can fade away and keep your relationships in tact.
Don't do anything stupid in the meantime. Hang in there. Continue to read, research and think.
Welcome. We've had several younger people see through the church and come here to vent. Don't reveal too much about yourself anywhere.
Nice to meet you, dagny! Yeah, I haven’t ever felt the spirit that I can tell, and I haven’t felt connected to the church in years. I’m a self described intellectual (not trying to brag or something I’m just a very logical guy) and I want to be able to debate people. One of the things that’s so hard to fight against is the “well I felt it so it’s true” (faith) argument. Just have faith! So annoying.
I don’t want to cut people out of my life, but I don’t want to be degraded and told I’m the lost sheep etc.
I don’t know if I’ll take your advice of just stay under the radar (if I misunderstood it please feel free to correct me) because I can’t keep living a lie. It’s so draining and really impacting my health. But I definitely will continue to read, research, and think!! :) No disrespect at all BTW hopefully you get that.
Yeah I’m trying not to reveal too much. I won’t give any more PII.
Good for you. I'm just worried about you losing financial support and the opportunity for higher education if you piss people off. If you can get away with coming out about it sooner than later, that's great. As you say, not living a lie is important.
Remember your parents will feel they are failures if they have an apostate kid. Thank them for teaching and allowing you to think for yourself. Tell them that is the best thing they could give you as parents.
Enjoy your journey. I'm impressed with your ability to question and stand up against nonsense.
Yeah, I appreciate your concern. My parents are divorced and my dad isn’t a member so I’ll always have his support. I’m not getting any money from my family members who are members anyways.
Yeah, my mom does feel like a failure. I grew up with her, and so she’s wondering how the little time spent with my dad impacted me so much when in reality it wasn’t that at all.
Thank you for the well wishes. I’m a skeptic at heart!
I get what you’re saying, but I have a really hard timing giving them the win of “he prayed, fasted, etc.” I don’t want them to think that. I want them to know that I used my brain and figured it out. I know that may work for some people, but I’m not willing to betray myself more than I already have/am.
Greetings Winky...can I call you Winky.".as much as we’d like to debate and straighten one thing you won’t find is logic or reason among members...it’s enough to know for yourself...seldom has any debate changed any opinion about church..if anything it causes a deeper rift with associates...go along to get along..18 is a real tough time as you just don’t have autonomy yet and are still dependant...one fall back position is you just don’t feel ready and your seeking assurance through prayer and fasting...use the catch words and virtue signals to your advantage...itllkeep the busy bodies content ...the church has an abundance of busy bodies..patience is everything at your age..at 18 you feel like you need to wade in and dam the torpedoes and life is passing you by...play the long game...there’s no hurry...often the less said the better...don’t engage....there’s an old saying...never wrestle with pigs...you’ll both get dirty and the pig likes it
I have a really hard time not engaging. I want people to see what is right in front of them. The more people I talk to about it, the more I realize they never will see it. I hate the f-ing faith argument, as I said earlier. It’s so dumb. “I feel the spirit while reading the Book of Mormon more than any other book.” How ridiculous. I can’t sit idly by, and I don’t really have a good relationship with anyone in my ward anyways so I don’t really care if they get destroyed (not my goal, but I don’t care).
Thanks for the advice and your thoughts, nice to meet you!
Winston, hold firm on not going on a mission. Remember, you don't need to JADE -- justify, argue, defend, or explain. You are an adult and you get to choose. Some of your peers who go on missions will be coming home early, anyway. They don't know it yet, but they will.
The same goes in terms of your reasons for leaving the church. You don't need to justify anything to anyone. You can leave it at, "It's not for me," or "I've given it a fair chance, and I don't believe it." TBMs will not listen to your arguments or justifications anyway. And if they do read your sources, they will come back at you with a hundred defenses. No one really hears the arguments against the church until they are ready.
If someone comes to you who is sincerely interested (and not just trying to persuade you to stay in,) two good sources are the CES Letter and the "Letter to My Wife." Mormon Think is a good website that presents the faithful point of view alongside the known facts. This website (exmormon.org) also has a lot of good links and resources.
The best thing that you can do for yourself right now is to focus on your future. Find a way to train or prepare for a career that pays well, whether that involves college, community college, trade school, the military, or an apprenticeship.
But dude (sorry, Gen X here), you are on your way, and I applaud you.
Your prefrontal cortex hasn’t fully matured, so you have a higher chance of misjudging the risk-to-reward ratio of your actions. That said, if you find yourself in a fix, ask for help to get out of it.
A lot of the posts your’e reading urge caution only because we want you to be safe. But we can also understand the frustration and urgency of being 18.
Please let us know how things are going. Please be safe. You know your situation and family better than we do (and we know enough—not asking for any personal info—keep that info in a locked box).
You make me smile. Thanks for that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2024 12:46PM by Beth.
Respectfully, there’s nothing that irks me quite like being told my brain isn’t fully developed. I know it’s true, but not really relevant. I know you all want me to be safe and careful and I appreciate that.
I would love to be in the Grey Matter development stage again.
Now I have to take 800MG of Ibuprofen before working in the yard. My hip is nearing its eventual failure. I can be standing there talking to you, and suddenly I forgot your name. Not only can I not find my keys, but I have to send out a search and rescue for them. I have nerve damage in my feet. And my adult children are working hard at bankrupting me.
Ah yes, those things that come with the wisdom of age.
When The Offspring and her partner moved in about a year ago, I warned them that if I can’t find something, I probably will blame them even if they didn’t move or lose it. I asked them no matter the circumstances to help me find it, and eventually I’ll be in my right mind again. Prescient.
Lot's Wife Wrote: ------------------------------ > "A rather flaccid response, > one might think." > > --Dorothy Sayers, shaking her > head in disappointment
Disgraceful!!! She is Dorothy L. Sayers!
Next, you'll be slighting yourself by claiming Clarabell Clown is your idol.
Again, not relevant. I’m going through enough without your passive aggressiveness. I meant no disrespect. I’m a thinking, functioning, living human being and just because my brain isn’t fully developed doesn’t mean I can’t make decisions. I didn’t come here asking for advice. You all gave me advice. I wanted to talk about the repetition in the church. I still mean no disrespect, but telling me that my brain isn’t developed is simply not relevant, and I’m not sure what your goal is. Let’s leave it at this, please. Thank you.
Okaaaay. Just remember you can’t control how people react or respond to your actions. But you can control your own.
ETA And saying you don’t mean to be disrespectful does not make your intentions so, but I will take you at your word.
Having never been to a Mormon anything, I can’t speak to how repetitive it is, so I will bow out now unless I need to clarify something I have written.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2024 02:50PM by Beth.
>> I didn’t come here asking for advice. You all gave me advice.
Yeah, that's one of our collective faults. We love to give advice.
The reason for that is we've seen the fallout from dozens if not hundreds of people your age who have made their exits from the church. There are some common pitfalls (i.e. trying to convince TBMs that your reasons for leaving are sound) that seldom end well for either side.
So it comes from wanting things to go well for you.
your dad isn't a member. I had read this earlier and had to come back to reply. I agree with what others have said about taking it easy with those who still believe. Live as you see fit and some will come around believe it or not.
I had 3 siblings out of the church before I left it. My parents never thought I'd leave, but I had my gay/straight marriage that PROPELLED me out of the church. Now all my siblings but a disabled brother are out. I never thought my older sister and her husband would leave the church, but they did during COVID. Their 3 kids left in their teens. So I took my kids out at age 8--twins. At age 21 my daughter went back.
Of all my parents' grandkids/great grandkids, my daughter is the only member. Of all the ones in the family it just had to be my daughter. We fought for a few years. She'd confront me about going back--all the while I was in a shacking up relationship with an old boyfriend, but she was going to save me. I finally confronted her and told her she needed to like me as I was and my therapist told me not to let her trigger me as he didn't think she was doing it consciously. He is an exmo. He has saved my life many times over.
But I don't discuss mormonism with her. She discusses it with her gay dad. She will bring up topics that shock me--things she finds obnoxious about the church. I just let her talk. She at least married a guy who isn't an over the top mormon and his family isn't either.
I have neighbors trying to save me and now I just politely decline their invites like "would you all like a blessing" when my son was hallucinating and ended up in mental health 3 times. I said No. If my "ex" had been asked, he would have told them off. They've offered twice. I find ways around what they tell me like "you'll find peace at church." I said my aunt took me to my dad's farm and I found peace there. He died 15 years ago and we had to sell it. But I did find peace there.
My parents accepted that I left. My dad had the hardest time with it, but he was never that MORMON. My mom said, "you are my most spiritual child and you don't need religion." That was SURPRISING. They watched my life fall apart. I was so devout and they don't know the half of it, but they were there for me.
It gets easier not confronting people, just being true to yourself. I purposely set people straight about things like them telling me "he chose the gay lifestyle" and I do tell them bluntly. I also flaunt my own lifestyle in front of them. I get a kick out of doing it.
By the way, I had this wonderful dog who died March 28, 2023, whose name is Winston. He was such a joy. His brother died July 27, 2023. It has been rough.
About the regurgitation thing: If Mormons would quit having so many babies there'd be much less of it. :P
Seriously though, welcome here Winston. I hope reading some of the more illuminating posts/threads here will help you out. If you have questions we can try to answer them for you. A lot of people here have been through what you are experiencing now. There's wisdom in this here crowd.
All the best to you as you navigate all the crowded waterways in front of you.
Congrats on realizing at 18 what's going on, and what you want to do about it. But navigating your exit is not easy, I have learned from this forum. Other things I have learned:
It's good to know your reasons, and be able to state them simply and clearly to people who want to know why you're leaving.
But it's not required that you convince anybody.
The conversation with people you care about, like your family: be gentle. Don't lecture. Listen for feelings. Let them know you still love them and you're still family. Let it take time.
The conversation with people you don't care about e.g. church officials: shorter is usually better.
Before, during, and after this: it's great to have conversations with people who have gone through this, like on this forum.
You have discovered that you are the sane one in the asylum. I have some bad news. This whole planet is an asylum. Knowing the truth about the church may not mean as much as you think.
It does help you take it less seriously, though. You can treat it like a game, play along, give the rubes what they want. An 18-year-old can get a lot of mileage out of playing the game. Telling the truth to those who love a lie isn't doing them any favors.
That’s a very nihilistic way of viewing things, and not one I totally disagree with. I do disagree with your conclusion though. It means something to me, hence my 50hours of research so far (that may not be much but it feels like a lot).
Just to restate my previous responses to other people, I don’t just wanna play along. That doesn’t sit right with me.