There's this 'crazy thing' I n the U.S. Constitution that I seem to recall, dies anyone else recall - remember it also?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2024 09:30PM by GNPE.

Pretty much. Our recently elected US Congresswoman, Celeste Maloy is Cliven Bundy's niece and Ammon's cousin.

Sweet!

Seriously? Good grief,

Seriously. Sadly.

I hope the ID governor will / has requested extradition from Utah; then we'll see how much 'law and order' the Utah folks are....

It's probably not worth it to the State of Idaho to pursue extradition. The only thing Bundy is wanted for is contempt of court.

The punishment for contempt in Idaho is $5000 and/or 5 days in jail.

https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title7/t7ch6/sect7-610/

If they were to extradite him, there is the possibility that some of his friends will show up and cause trouble - think Bundy ranch, Malheur NWR, or the hospital in Boise.

Right now he is not causing any trouble for Idaho, so the cost is probably greater than any potential benefit.

If I were the governor of Idaho, my view would be that Bundy is Utah's problem, not Idaho's, and would be happy to leave it that way. 

I agree.
There are too many voters here in Idaho who like Bundy. Why would a politician want to jeopardize irritating voters either way?

Thanks for taking that one, UT!

What I hear from my friends in Idaho is there is a very well organized group of Baptists who are trying to take over the Republican Party. I guess they are real nutters but they have pissed off the more moderate conservatives. A lot of these evangelical kooks are recent move ins.

If he's hiding out, he can't make himself a public nuisance. The problem kind of solved itself.

Utah might consider if someone they want flees to Idaho…

just sayin’

You're assuming that Idaho wants Bundy back. If they really did, they would have already requested extradition.

My guess is that Idaho is quite happy to have him in Utah.

That's the most likely scenario. He'll be arrested once he sets foot in Idaho. So, he'll stay in Utah with his likeminded sycophants. We have plenty of them here.

this is 'between the court & the governor';

the courts expect that absconding debtors are brought to justice, especially when a court ruling is involved.

Courts know that their rulings, verdicts, and judgements need the respect of the citizens, else the value of the courts and goverment in general is jeopardized.

Idaho would have to request extradition. Has it? I wouldn’t.

Utah: Hey. Your guy is hanging out here.

Idaho: Guy? What guy?

Utah: That Bundy guy.

Idaho: That guy from married with children?

Utah: Don’t play dumb. So, you want him?

Idaho: Do you have him in custody?

Utah: Nope. Hasn’t been charged with anything here yet.

Idaho: Okay. Good luck with that.

Neither of the above 2 posts addresses my statement/concerns which I consider substantive.

Rhetoric has a place, but aren't real-life concerns more significant?

I guess my post is my 'legal mind' at work even tho I'm not an attorney...

Extradition is always a political matter and it is meant to be such. That's why political authorities are always involved in deciding what to do: for they are the ones who have the clearest understanding of "real-life concerns" that include, among other things, the need to maintain respect for the law.

Political oversight is baked into the federal constitution.

Article IV, Section 2, Paragraph 2:

"A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime."

There is nothing there that requires the executive authority (governor) of the first state to issue such a demand to the second state. Such a demand is at the discretion of the governor. If the governor of Idaho does not want to extradite Bundy, then that is his decision.

Article IV section 1 applies to non-criminal judgements such as civil judgements

Section 1
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

A civil judgement entered/filed by a court in one state is effective in all states, it's good that people can't move across a state line to evade - avoid consequences legally determined in another state.

In Bundy's case, any property he acquires in the U.S. is subject to seizure to satisfy a judgement.

Which Idaho favors should message neer do wells to obey the laws, not recognize any sanctuary.

Similarly if a U.S. citizen is murdered in another nation, U.S. laws can be invoked.

And if Idaho (or St. Luke hospital) wants to go to court to seize any property Bundy has in Utah, they are welcome to do so. But that has nothing to do with Bundy being sent back to Idaho.

Does Bundy even own any property in Utah?

And even if Section 1 referred to extradition, it is still up to the State of Idaho to initiate the process.

Apparently, Idaho has not felt it necessary or desirable to do that.

Sooooooo, whether your legal mind is working or not is open to debate.

In our history as a country, stands offs with armed lunatics tend to end very badly with loss of lives. Bundy isn’t worth risking anyone’s life unless he’s threatening actively to harm someone. It looks like ownership of Bundy’s real property has been transferred to St. Luke. That’s a good outcome for now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2024 07:11PM by Beth.

Maybe the person or people charged with deciding the issue came up with the notion that Idaho is better off without Ammon Bundy being present in the state!

They suspect that it's a bonus for the people of Idaho, and certainly a strong case can be made that such is the case.

You're suggesting that Utah citizens should welcome or tolerate Bundy's presence, I don't know that or even believe

If there's a valid Idaho warrant, Utah officers can meet Idaho officers at the border & deliver Bundy to Idaho officers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2024 09:05PM by GNPE.

There are undoubtedly some citizens of Utah that welcome Bundy's presence. But whether Utah wants him or not really isn't relevant. The State of Utah does not have any basis to remove Bundy from Utah. He hasn't been convicted of any crime in Utah, and Idaho has not requested extradition.

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------
> You're suggesting that Utah
> citizens should welcome or
> tolerate Bundy's presence, I
> don't know that or even be-
> lieve it.


    Yes! I hereby decree and demand that Utah, and each and every inhabitant within its sacred boundaries, approve of Bundy's magnificent presence. Not only shall they tolerate his presence, but worship it, even to the point of idolatry!!


    Well, okay, maybe I didn't say a single word about Utah or its residents...  But you saw through that and came up with your worthy conclusion.

    I am hoist by the petard of your creative imagination.

Utah code of criminal procedure section 77-30-2.

From your link:

77-30-3. Form of demand -- What documents presented must show.
No demand for the extradition of a person charged with a crime in another state shall be recognized by the governor unless in writing alleging, except in cases arising under Section 77-30-6, that the accused was present in the demanding state at the time of the commission of the alleged crime, and that thereafter he fled from the state, and accompanied by a copy of an indictment found or by information supported by affidavit in the state having jurisdiction of the crime, or by a copy of an affidavit made before a magistrate there, together with a copy of any warrant which was issued thereupon or by a copy of a judgment of conviction or of a sentence composed in execution, together with a statement by the executive authority of the demanding state that the person claimed has escaped from confinement or has broken the terms of his bail, probation or parole. The indictment, information or affidavit made before the magistrate must substantially charge the person demanded with having committed a crime under the law of that state and the copy of the indictment, information, affidavit, judgment of conviction or sentence must be authenticated by the executive authority making the demand.


Idaho *HAS NOT* submitted any such written demand, therefore, there is no grounds for extradition.

Once again, if Idaho wants to, they can submit a demand for extradition. As of now, Idaho has not done so.

Jesus pleasus!

The title of the section you cited is “Duty of governor to deliver person charged with crime upon demand by other state”

Upon Demand by Other State <—- Idaho has to file an extradition request. Then Utah will decide whether to arrest Bundy.

Here's the entire chapter. There’s something in there about making a citizen's arrest if you’re game and have the gas money. You can be a Bundy Bounty Hunter. Don’t think anyone will pay you, tho.

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title77/Chapter30/77-30.html

I stand by what I said earlier-

If Idaho has a warrant for Mr. B, a Utah officer can meet an Idaho officer at the border & deliver him to Idaho custody.

And you might could bend over and fart a rainbow.

From your link above (see 77-30-11)

77-30-10. Time to apply for habeas corpus allowed.
No person arrested upon such warrant shall be delivered over to the agent whom the executive authority demanding him shall have appointed to receive him unless he shall first be taken forthwith before a judge of a court of record in this state who shall inform him of the demand made for his surrender and of the crime with which he is charged and that he has the right to demand and procure legal counsel and if the prisoner or his counsel shall state that he or they desire to test the legality of his arrest, the judge of such court of record shall fix a reasonable time to be allowed him within which to apply for a writ of habeas corpus. When such writ is applied for, notice thereof and the time and place of hearing thereon shall be given to the prosecuting officer of the county in which the arrest is made and in which the accused is in custody, and to the said agent of the demanding state


77-30-11. Penalty for disobedience of habeas corpus.
Any officer who shall deliver to the agent for extradition of the demanding state a person in his custody under the governor's warrant, in willful disobedience to Section 77-30-10, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction shall be fined not more than $1,000 or be imprisoned in the county jail not more than six months, or both.

But what if Bundy is driving around in Utah with Idaho license plate?

Doesn't that change the analysis?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2024 11:31PM by Lot's Wife.

Well, maybe - if he were driving around Washington with Idaho license plates.

Sounds like Inspector Javert is really on a bender this time. Sheesh.

Ammon Bundy isn't 100% safe in Utah or anywhere

I like that after asking your question, you provide your own answer!

I’m waiting for reports that our guy noir, private eye has appeared at the Bundy hangout with the intent of bringing him to justice!

Imagine the scene…

A barefoot naked man, sunburned, dusty and parched, appears at Bundy’s asking for a drink from the well. The apparition evokes memories of times when visions were truth, and itinerant preachers extolled the virtues of proper vehicle licensure.

His matted hair and scraggly beard are eclipsed by the sight of his shaking liver spotted hands raising the tin cup to his cracked white lips, water rivulets carving small paths of clean skin on his chest.

Then, BAM! His assless chaps posse comitatus breaks out into dance and hypnotizes Bundy with their genital gyrations while Judge Holden disposes of his fake beard and wig and proceeds to scream, “WAR IS GOD” and eats Bundy’s face.

And he didn't even ask his questions in the proper Jeopardy format. Really disappointing.

Who is absconding and AWOL from an Idaho court judgment now said to be living comfortably in Utah?

We can just wait for you to answer your own question again.