Many states now have laws against people taking advantage of the elderly. Many times it's abuse and lack of care from family members and often it's also pressure into signing financial documents that they don't really understand. They will convince them to put their lifelong earned finances in a Trust managed by them and they pilfer from that trust. They will get them to rewrite their will, benefiting themselves. "The" church employs people to try to get members to will their money and/or property to them. Not only do they have pressure it's from people that they have believed their entire lives, that they are spiritual leaders and are guided by God. It's pure coercion for financial gain by a billion dollar real estate and investment corporation masquerading as a tax exempt church. Hunstman's tithing lawsuit is a longshot. Has anyone sued LDS Inc. for having their parents sign away their life savings and property? Maybe it should become a thing.

I agree with you. Asking for a final bequest from people who have already given far too much is in my mind, deeply immoral. Too many people and families of modest to average means have given too much of their wealth to a church that can never be satisfied.

I agree. But can it be used by family, that lost an inheritance to the church, in court? And further, can the law enforce elder abuse laws against them?

...my best guess, given what I have read on the subject elsewhere, is that the answer in most cases will be no. Basically, to prove that the church took financial advantage of its elderly parishoners, you would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the family member(s) when agreeing to leave money to the LDS church in his/her will, had absolutely no idea what the church did and that he/she disapproved of how the church spent the money it received from its parishoners. Proving that the family member didn't know or completely disapproved of the church's activities when that person had been a church member all of his/her life would be a very tall order indeed. Again, as I have pointed out in another thread, judges give churches the benefit of the doubt most of the time because of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment guarantee of the freedom of religion

The only likely area (and the late Richard Packham wrote about this a very long time ago on this site) where defendants can hold the church accountable would appear to be if the church engages in direct physical or sexual abuse of its elderly members, i.e. physical touching and more.

"Proving that the family member didn't know or completely disapproved of the church's activities when that person had been a church member all of his/her life would be a very tall order indeed."

Yeah, but what if their children weren't members and knew nothing of the church practices? Times have changed since Packham's opinions, laws have changed recently. I'm asking if elder abuse laws can now be used against LDS Inc.'s coercion against elderly members.

I think the one solid defense would be if it could be argued that the elderly person was too vulnerable, fragile, or incapacitated to consent to a change in his or her will. I remember stories of senior missionaries trying to grift off of hospitalized members.

That's how I think. Someone should try that. Or maybe, many do and the church quietly pays to make it go away.

The concept that the church holds onto is the United Order doctrine that was done away with. They also covenant in the temples to give everything they have to the building of Zion. That always disturbed me.

I mean, where does the greed end?

I remember when I was a kid asking my dad what the difference was between communism (which at the time was almost like a witch hunt pitch against) and United Order (which was God's perfect way to live). He could not explain the difference except...Satan!

Does this mean I get to be another abused senior. I'm always excited to be a victim now that I'm not responsible for my own actions.

Phil, there may (or may not) come a point as you age when you do not have the capacity to consent. Hopefully, if that is the case, people will not sweep in like vultures to take advantage of you. You know that it can and does happen.

Some elderly are also taken advantage of because they are unable to keep up with technology. Again, the vultures swoop in to take advantage. Hopefully this will not happen to you either. But it's happened to plenty of people, especially seniors.

The Mormon church simply does not have a good track record in this regard. The church is money-hungry, and doesn't particularly care how it gets it.

Actually, Phil, you'll remain responsible for your own actions - particularly in the eye of the Lord and even of many beholders - but you just won't realize it any more ;-) and often, it's true, nobody will hold it against you.

I enjoyed your joke, though. :-D

First - Prop 8 in California. Widows told to sell their house, move in with kids and give a specified amount to the cause. I had widows sit on our couch and cry because they had no home. One was $120,000. One was $30,000.

Second - at the nursing home. The "elders" who came to deliver the sacrament then worked on the patient to change their will.

laperla not logged in Wrote:
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> Second - at the nursing home. The "elders" who
> came to deliver the sacrament then worked on the
> patient to change their will.

Completely immoral.

Disgusting.

This is simply awful, immoral behavior that should be illegal.

What happened with the Mormons and Prop 8 is a textbook example of how really heartless, disgusting, and underhanded some people can be. I'm sure Jesus, their loving Savior, is very proud of them.

The church had their Area Seventies aka the Danites do the dirty work so the church leaders could claim the members were doing it voluntarily and it had nothing to do with them.

**Some people may prefer not to read the details of the church's history on the marriage issue - contained in the link.**

But in case some readers don't know the details (from 2008):

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/same-sex-marriage-and-proposition-8


Their amended view (gained from further light and knowledge?):

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/same-gender-attraction

Bottom Line: The attraction is OK. Acting on it is not.

At one point there was a link you could look at to see how much people contributed. Skeeved me out how many of my relatives donated, even ones I thought were fairly sane.

The "family church" takes grandparents away from the family by sending them on missions. Then they encourage grandma and grandpa to will money to the church instead of the grandkids.

I think that's true. An when accomplished, the member feels awful. Since he followed directions, it must be the family member's fault.