I had a teacher who had been one of the cargo pilots who flew the bodies back to the USA. He said they couldn't get the smell out of the aircraft for months.

############


https://abc7news.com/post/jonestown-massacre-guyana-proposes-site-tourists-draws-concern-shooting-victim-former-congresswoman-jackie-speier/15636858/


SAN FRANCISCO (KGO) -- Nearly 50 years after the massacre at Jonestown, the South American country of Guyana is considering opening up the site for tourism.

The country's tourism minister tells the Associated Press it is aware of pushback, but they are backing the effort, which will be run by the private group Wanderlust Tours.

In November 1978, more than 900 Americans followed religious leader Jim Jones to Guyana, where he promised a perfectly equal society.

It quickly turned dark, after questions about coercion emerged.

What kind of drinks will they serve?

Crystal Light.

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kind of drinks will they serve?

I don't think it really matters--to have the safest possible experience, you should supply your own.

I can't imagine any useful purpose to going there, it's 100% sick.

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't imagine any useful purpose to going
> there, it's 100% sick.

The same has been said about death camps like Auschwitz which is a major tourist attraction. There are a number of them one can visit. Other people would say these things serve as a reminder.

Jim Jones' own beliefs have not been well publicized. At one point he wanted to move the entire group to the Soviet Union. The Soviet regime refused.

So many places around the world have monuments to mass killings. They always say it is a reminder so it never happens again. It happens again and again. It' happening right now.

I won't visit any of them. I refuse to rubber-neck.

Your reply reminded me of something I heard on NPR's "On The Media" earlier this year. To paraphrase, host Brooke Gladstone had commented that Germany had marketed itself after the Holocaust as being unique and that such mass killings by governments or groups of people against other groups of people couldn't happen anywhere else. Mrs. Gladstone went on to say, however, that the history both before and since WWII showed the German government to have been wrong. The only new wrinkle that the Germans did was the use of new technology (those gas ovens) to murder large numbers of people at one time.

As to your point about monuments to mass killings, sadly, you may be right. What seems to happen is that after a majority of the generations who survived monstrosities such as the Holocaust pass on, those that follow them forget the lessons they were taught about group hysteria and wishing for one person to fix everything, including their own lives. We *really* just don't seem to learn.

There has been way too much exceptionalism about how Germany behaved. We know, for example, that the USSR and the PRC murdered tens of millions of people. China still uses political and religious prisoners for slave labor and organ harvesting.

Look how many states have witnessed mass murder and oppression since WW2. Apart from the two just mentioned, I could list:

Algeria, Angola, Argentina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burma, Cambodia, Chechnya, Chile, Colombia, Cuba, the two Congos, Cyprus, East Germany, Egypt, Fiji, Greece (at least twice), Indonesia (West Papua, East Timor), Iraq, Iran, Israel, Laos, the Lebanon Liberia, Mali, Mongolia, Mozambique, North Korea, Palestine, Poland, Romania, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Syria, Turkey, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yugoslavia (Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Kosovo etc), Zimbabwe

I keep feeling there are those still among us who would happily throw their neighbors into camps for safety or prejudice.

Thank you. The word Holocaust used to be for all those atrocities. Why, now, if you use the word does it only apply to a certain one? And why does that one refer to only one group when that is only half the story? Well, "my people" did get one good Broadway play out of it years ago.

"Your people" have their own atrocities (on Broadway)! LOL

The German holocaust was exceptional, IMO. Antisemitism exists today against Jews like none of the others you list. The efforts to deny it happened or downplay it signals disturbing views to me at least.
While I agree all mass murder is horrible and has been a staple of human existence, they are not always equal in comparison, IMO.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The German holocaust was exceptional, IMO.
> Antisemitism exists today against Jews like none
> of the others you list. The efforts to deny it
> happened or downplay it signals disturbing views
> to me at least.
> While I agree all mass murder is horrible and has
> been a staple of human existence, they are not
> always equal in comparison, IMO.

The question you have to ask yourself is "could some thing like this happen again?"

You do misidentify people's motives, but the very fact you go on about "disturbing views" indicates that you DO believe it could happen again. The other examples given actually CORROBORATE the Holocaust instead of denying it. The Holocaust was by far the worst attack on Jews in their history, but no one would deny it was part of a wider pattern of Antisemitism. It didn't come out of nowhere.

It's estimated that over 64 million people were murdered during Mao's Cultural Revolution in China and that most of these murders happened after WW2 officially ended.

What is it about you that makes you such an inveterate apologist for Hitler?

Above, when you were pretending to be Eyeball, you listed lots of countries in which mass murder has occurred and yet I am confident you cannot name a single state besides Germany that literally sought to eliminate an entire race within its own borders and in OTHER COUNTRIES. Your whataboutism is as pathetic as it is transparent.

And now you post this nonsense:

> It's estimated that over 64 million people were
> murdered during Mao's Cultural Revolution in China
> and that most of these murders happened after WW2
> officially ended.

First of all, the maximum estimate for how many peopled died in the Cultural Revolution is 2 million with the most likely figure lying in the hundreds of thousands. Your number is accordingly an exaggeration by at least 6,400%.

Moreover you now claim that "most of these murders happened after WW2"--which is absurd given that the Cultural Revolution did not begin until twenty years after the conclusion of that war.

The bottom line is that you neither know the facts nor care to learn them. You start with your preferred conclusion--in this case the antisemitic canard that the Holocaust was just business as usual--and then make up "facts" to support that conclusion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2024 11:17PM by Lot's Wife.

Yes. The agenda of that poster comes through loud and clear to me, LW.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. The agenda of that poster comes through loud
> and clear to me, LW.

One of the common techniques of Holocaust Deniers/Revisionists is to reduce/belittle the number murdered by the Nazis. The likes of David Irving try and claim concentration camps were not used for murder and they were only for internment/labor etc.

A key difference is that the German government and many Germans try and atone for their past. We also have good photographic evidence and records for some of what happened. This is not the case elsewhere.

The ~60 million figure is for Mao's entire reign of terror, not just the Cultural Revolution. "Tired of Spin" (who is not me!) clearly gets the two mixed up. LW's figure (presumably just for the CR) is a very low end estimate. I suggest you read Jung Chang's biography of Mao which includes inside accounts of what happened over the longer period. It's not pretty. The vast majority of Americans are not aware of what happened in China under Mao.

If there is any agenda it is to remind you that human brutality has not been confined to a short period of history. Nor has genocide. We shouldn't forget the Holocaust and we shouldn't be denying it or other atrocities. If we do, terrible things will happen again and again.

Not only records, but first hand admissions from the perpetrators who did it.

Oscar Groening made himself open to prosecution by telling his story.


###########

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning

Oskar Gröning (10 June 1921 – 9 March 2018)[1] was a German SS Unterscharführer who was stationed at the Auschwitz concentration camp. His responsibilities included counting and sorting the money taken from prisoners, and he was in charge of the personal property of arriving prisoners. On a few occasions he witnessed the procedures of mass killing in the camp. After being transferred from Auschwitz to a combat unit in October 1944, Gröning surrendered to the British at the end of the war; his role in the SS was not discovered. He was eventually transferred to the UK as a prisoner of war and worked as a farm labourer.


Upon his return to Germany, he led a normal life, reluctant to talk about his time in Auschwitz. However, more than 40 years later, after learning about Holocaust denial, he decided to make public his activities at Auschwitz. He openly criticised those who denied the events that he had witnessed and the ideology to which he had subscribed. Gröning was notable as a German willing to make public statements about his experience as an SS soldier, which were self-incriminating and which exposed his life to public scrutiny. In particular, he confessed to stealing jewellery and money from gas chamber victims for his personal benefit.


In September 2014, Gröning was charged by German prosecutors as an accessory to murder in 300,000 cases, for his role at the Auschwitz concentration camp. His trial began in April 2015, after the court had ruled that, at the age of 93, he was still fit to stand trial. The trial was held in Lüneburg, Germany. On 15 July 2015, he was found guilty of knowingly facilitating mass murder and sentenced to four years' imprisonment.[2] Following a number of unsuccessful appeals against the prison sentence, Gröning died on 9 March 2018 while hospitalized before he was set to begin his sentence.[3]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2024 08:04AM by anybody.

The Germans kept many records and there are many eye witness accounts. The evidence is overwhelming. I talked to Holocaust survivors myself when I was younger and to other people who were around at the time as civilians and Allied soldiers. I heard FIRST HAND accounts, not just written ones like you have. I've been shown actual tattoos on elderly people. My father was involved in interrogating German POWs and was injured by one of their mines. My friend at school had a grandfather was a blonde haired, blue eyed German Jew who got out when he could and did undercover missions behind enemy lines. I met him a number of times and even used to have dinner with him.

Pretending it never happened is grossly offensive and no one here is doing that. But there are certain posters who do wish to downplay various atrocities in human history. I've no interest in living under a dictatorship of ANY flavor. It is worth pointing out that such things don't just use naked hatred as a weapon, they abuse and twist people's better instincts by saying the ends justify the means.

> But there are
> certain posters who do wish to downplay various
> atrocities in human history.

Accuracy in identifying and describing atrocities is "downplaying" them?


--------------------
> It is
> worth pointing out that such things don't just use
> naked hatred as a weapon, they abuse and twist
> people's better instincts by saying the ends
> justify the means.

There it is again: your assertion that German Nazis were motivated not by "naked hatred" of Jews but by their own "better instincts."

What compels you yet again to "downplay" the Holocaust?

I have known many (around a hundred) concentration camp survivors, including my mother-in-law. Most but not all of them, were there because they were in the French Resistance, but many of them were Jewish, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time with people who really were in the resistance... I too have known several tattooed people (only Auschwitz tattooed them, as far as I know). It ALL happened azs the historians tell it and, despite the brave survivors who chose to bear witness like my mother-in-law, we can NEVER imagine or even describe the evil, the horror and the suffering brought about directly by Hitler's ideology.

My mother-in-law, a wonderful determined little woman who ended up first in Ravensbrück before moving to a Kommando making weapons for the Germans which was attached administratively to Büchenwald and who died in 2011, told me she still dreamed of the camps every night until the end of her life.

On a different note, may I say how nice it is to see you back among us, Lot's Wife. You've been missed.

Thank you, my friend. I've missed you too.

I would add to the above discussion two points. First, there is a difference between holocaust, lower case, and Holocaust, upper case. There is only one Holocaust.

Point the second: it was not just Jews who experienced the Holocaust. It was Jews, Gypsies, gay people, the mentally handicapped as well. But that does not diminish the fact that Hitler slaughtered nearly half of all Jews. From 1942 onward he literally prioritized that over winning the war. Not even Stalin or Mao saw such genocide as prior to their geostrategic goals.

And yes, anyone over 40 or so who has lived--and been trusted--in cities with significant Jewish populations has seen those horrible little tattoos. Being God's chosen people evidently sucks.

> "Tired of Spin" (who is not me!) clearly gets the
> two mixed up.

Sure, you're not Eyeball/Tired of Spin. You're really not, which is "def" why you protest so much.


----------------
> LW's figure (presumably just for the
> CR) is a very low end estimate.

Of course my estimates--plural, not singular--are for the Cultural Revolution. That was the topic under consideration. As for their being low, can you provide citations to anything credible that substantiates your point?

In the unlikely event that you care, here is the best study of the movement to date. It's based on county-by-county analysis of death records covering every bit of China over the 1966-1976 period, which is the most sweeping definition of the Cultural Revolution--many scholars limit it to just the first two years of that decade--and hence is on the high end.

https://sociology.stanford.edu/sites/sociology/files/walder-sucq.pdf

Walder and Yang put the number at just over one million. If you don't like their work, tell us what was wrong with their methodology.

------------------
> I suggest you read
> Jung Chang's biography of Mao which includes
> inside accounts of what happened over the longer
> period.

That book is not history; it is James Michener stuff, sweeping drama with lots of embellishment. But I don't think you've read it in any event. Can you prove me wrong? What is her estimate for the Cultural Revolution's death toll, on which page does it appear, and how was her methodology better than those of real experts?


--------------------
> The vast majority of
> Americans are not aware of what happened in China
> under Mao.

Obviously ignorance of the Cultural Revolution is not limited to citizens of the US. And in any case, Canadians are Americans too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2024 01:40PM by Lot's Wife.

I find rating mass murders in order of worst to less worse to be rather vulgar.

When something really awful happens that is ruining someone's life the worst thing you can say to them is "Well, so and so has it worse. At least you don't have that."

When it comes to this sort of thing the devil is not in the details.

I do agree. I don't mean to minimize any suffering. It's all horrible. The hate that precedes and follows some of these atrocities is worrisome. It is still a tool for dictators.

I'll just say that I'm not a fan of human beings overall.

All mass massacres are awful. They don't need a hit parade approach...

You are certainly right on a human level, a moral level.

But politically and militarily there are significant differences. The world has many tyrants who are ready and willing to slaughter and torture those who stand in their way. But they can be deterred whereas someone like Hitler who wants to eradicate a target people at any cost, including his own demise, is a different animal who presents different threats.

Moreover fascism (lower case) reveals itself before it has achieved total dominance and hence warns us what is in store if we do not act. And once this sort of leader and movement identifies the enemy within, it's only a matter of time before other groups too are targeted. So strategically and tactically, it is meaningful to distinguish between different sorts of evil.

That is important to point out, IMO. It's in addition to a human, moral level to recognize.

Excellent point. You do make me wonder how much good people taking the high road, giving the benefit of the doubt, greases the wheels of the ultimate tragedy.

Protests do nothing nowadays. Hard not to get sad about all that's going on even if it isn't as big as Hitler. I read somebody saying the other day that there is really only one political party--The Billionaire party. It's about money not lives. All about money and money has no conscience.


Recently we had an earthquake here and I got a warning on my phone ----3 seconds ahead of time. That was a little useless.

I call dibbs on the kool-aid stand franschise.

I spent 3 weeks in Germany this summer and one of the trips just outside of Munich is the Dachau prison camp. In the 1960s Germany razed most of the camp structures, then later realized some of it should be saved as a reminder of its history and to teach future generations of what occurred and what can occur. It was a somber visit. Saving Jonestown seems similar to me. Keep it as a memorial and as a reminder of human atrocities to minimize these events from happening again.

from Wikipedia:

Dachau was established in March 1933 as the first Nazi Concentration Camp. Dachau was chiefly a political camp, rather than an extermination camp, but of around 160,000 prisoners sent to its main camp, over 32,000 were either executed or died of disease, malnutrition or brutalization. The prisoners of Dachau were used as guinea pigs in Nazi medical experiments.[1] The sick were sent to Hartheim to be murdered, (framed as "euthanasia" in the T4 Program).[2]

Along with priests, other political prisoners including Social Democrats and Communists, Jews, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and homosexuals were also incarcerated at Dachau.[1]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2024 12:35PM by Eric K.

Really eye opening academic page on Jonestown and the causes behind it. They're not what yoh think. This is the greatest story never told.

https://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=64856

'[Jim] Jones later recalled that his sense of compassion led him to reject the American system... ‘It seemed gross to me that one human being would have so much more than another,’ Jones recounted. ‘I couldn’t come to terms with [it] in any way.’”[29] In statements written in the late 1970s the Reverend Jones mused, “I decided, how can I demonstrate my [ideology]? The thought was ‘infiltrate the church.’ I consciously made a decision to look into that prospect.”[30] John R. Hall explains Jones’ rationale concerning using the church as a vehicle to promote his radical agenda
*
'One of Jones’ converts, Tim Carter, explained, ‘Telling people about socialism in America, you’d get 20 people. But as a preacher you could get a large audience.’ In semipublic services in the early 1970s, as a sort of bait to the interested, Jones would allude to deeper truths than those he was presenting, much as gnostics and mystics had done before him. By the mid-1970s, he became more and more explicit about his socialist vision… The deception of using religion to promote socialism dissipated for followers as they came to know their leader more intimately, but the persistence of the church front sustained a public relations façade that legitimated the group within established society and attracted support of politicians and other notables, many of whom might otherwise have steered clear of the socialist messiah.[31]'
*
'After Peoples Temple migrated to Guyana and established the Peoples Temple Agricultural Project, better known as Jonestown, Jones pushed his socialist agenda to the forefront. Jones required that his people, from the children to the elderly, be educated about the tenets of socialism. Jones read from Tass, the Soviet news agency, over the loudspeaker system nearly every day, with quizzes to follow. Some of the members of Peoples Temple changed their names to Ché (Guevara), Stalin, and Lenin, “though Jones cautioned them to give their birth names when questioned by reporters,”[53] so as not to reveal how radical the church had become politically. This evolution could have sparked public interest and investigation into Peoples Temple, which Jones feared.'

You're citing a chapter from a 22-year-old masters degree student's thesis at a tier three university. Can you find anything more credible to support your claim that socialism is worse than Nazism?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2024 01:12AM by Maude.

The Kool Aid may look sweet and refreshing but it is not what you think it is. Jim Jones Jr, an African American, tried to stop his adoptive father.
"The common theme was people wanted to make a difference. We had an organizational structure, an agricultural team, the education projects, the infirmary or hospital team. It was a whole community... I always thought the ends justify the means. What I didn't understand is that if the means become the foggiest, that changes the ends."

Jim Jones Jr.'s wife was murdered in the massacre.

The Peoples Temple attracted naive idealists and utopians. Many people were attracted to his church because it was not racially segregated, and was LGBT+ friendly. It called itself the "Rainbow Family". No one had any property so no one was richer than another in Jonestown. What they didn't know that lurking behind this mask of kindness, equality and tolerance was something a lot more menacing. Jim Jones' totalitarian political leanings are well documented. It is arguable whether he even believed in God. That is the aspect which is left out of most accounts of the Jonestown Massacre. It is always presented as a purely religious cult.

Jones also encouraged experimentation with sex and drugs, which appealed to the Hippie community in San Francisco.


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/jonestown-race/

'“We saw that 80% or so of the people [who joined the Peoples Temple] were African American,” filmmaker Stanley Nelson notes. “What were these African Americans doing in the middle of the jungle with this white man?”

'Jonestown was meant to be a mixed race utopia, too. In a radio interview, Jones pointed out that Guyana was a black majority country. “We have 27,000 acres undertaking abroad in a mixed society, black president, but a beautifully racially-inclusive society.” Consciously or not, the move to Guyana must have echoed Marcus Garvey’s back-to-Africa movement in the ears of the older black members.'

PBS, of course, neglects to mention that the Jonestown Massacre occurred shortly after Moscow turned down the Peoples Temple request to move to Soviet Russia.

The Peoples Temple may have been good on racial equality. It wasn't so good with freedom.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2024 01:21AM by Maude.

Thank you.

Your first article, the juvenile one by the grad student at a third-rate university, made Jones and his movement out to be a socialist movement inspired by communist leaders. It used the term "socialist" six times in two paragraphs and even alleged "Soviet" influence, thereby falling right in line with your Trotsky-under-the-bed fixation.

I challenged that as nonsense, and you have now produced a credible article from a credible source that doesn't use that word "socialism" at all and puts the cult's egalitarian views in their proper historical context, one that easily encompasses Mormonism, the Anabaptist sects, and the communalism of Jesus's actual teachings. No Stalin, Lenin, Che to be seen.

Conclusion: credible researchers see Jonestown as a religious cult, not the result of Marxist conspiracy.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you find anything more credible
> to support your claim that socialism is worse than
> Nazism?

Maude, just out of interest, why do you use the slang term "Nazi", and not the full form of their name? Is there any particular reason? What about NSDAP? What is the translation of that abbreviation in English?

I doubt you would talk about Communists as "Commies" all the time. There is a reason you've been conditioned into using the term "Nazi" rather than what it's an abbreviation for.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

***ADMIN NOTE***

Lot's Wife is not a mod here. Please stop the constant name hopping or expect your posts to be deleted. Thank you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2024 09:19PM by Maude.

Here you get into trouble again.

Years ago you contended on nominal grounds that the Nazis were actually a leftist movement by dint of the word "socialist" in the party's title. Nazis, Soviets, Chinese communists: all the fruit of the same Marxist tree.

But that was silly and few people bought it. So what did you do? For a while you tried the opposite argument by defending the Nazis, who, you would have us believe, were good-hearted souls doing their best but who are now cruelly, outrageously, misunderstood. In your words above, "there has been way too much exceptionalism about how Germany behaved."

Yet that position too is untenable because the Nazi evil is patently unique; as the great historian Adam Tooze wrote two decades ago, "Hitler and his regime extended the boundaries of war to include a wholesale campaign of genocide that stands unrivaled in its intensity, scope and deliberateness." Many participants in this thread found that a reasonable observation and noted that Nazism really was unprecedentedly evil.

So now you reverse course again, asking "Maude" to insist that we call the Nazis "socialists" so you can denounce them as leftists.* But which is it? Were Nazi atrocities so horrible that they must have been Marxist? Or are the Nazis good-hearted conservatives who, like the Animals, just don't want to be misunderstood? Why can't you accept that conservatives can do truly horrible things, things that in some ways are worse than what liberals have done?





*And in answer to your concern that the umbrageous word "commies" should not be permitted on RfM, you yourself have used it here--on, for example, May 15, 2019.

D'oh



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2024 03:29PM by Lot's Wife.

Part of the Nazi revolution was overturning the social status of the old Prussian and other nobility, but the Nazis weren't "socialist" in the political and economic sense.

###########


https://www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/05/right-needs-stop-falsely-claiming-that-nazis-were-socialists/


The Nazi regime had little to do with socialism, despite it being prominently included in the name of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. The NSDAP, from Hitler on down, struggled with the political implications of having socialism in the party name. Some early Nazi leaders, such as Gregor and Otto Strasser, appealed to working-class resentments, hoping to wean German workers away from their attachment to existing socialist and communist parties. The NSDAP’s 1920 party program, the 25 points, included passages denouncing banks, department stores and “interest slavery,” which suggested a quasi-Marxist rejection of free markets. But these were also typical criticisms in the anti-Semitic playbook, which provided a clue that the party’s overriding ideological goal wasn’t a fundamental challenge to private property.

Instead of controlling the means of production or redistributing wealth to build a utopian society, the Nazis focused on safeguarding a social and racial hierarchy. They promised solidarity for members of the Volksgemeinschaft (“racial community”) even as they denied rights to those outside the charmed circle.

Additionally, while the Nazis tried to appeal to voters across the spectrum, the party’s founders and initial base were small-business men and artisans, not the industrial proletariat of Marxist lore. Their first notable electoral successes were in small towns and Protestant rural areas in present-day Thuringia and Saxony, among voters suspicious of cosmopolitan, secular cities who associated both “socialism” and “capitalism” with Jews and foreigners.

This fear of social revolution and a sense that democracy, with its cacophony of voices and the need for compromises, would threaten their preferred social hierarchy gave Nazism its appeal with these voters — even if it meant sacrificing democracy. While Communists abetted the destruction of German democracy, seeing it as a way to eventually produce the revolution they wanted, the only German political party that consistently resisted Nazi arguments, the Social Democratic Party (SPD), offered another sign of the discontinuity between socialism and Nazism.

NSFW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Maude, just out of interest, why do you use the
> slang term "Nazi", and not the full form of their
> name? Is there any particular reason? What about
> NSDAP? What is the translation of that
> abbreviation in English?


The Nazis themselves started using "Nazi" for members of the NSDAP.

############


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

The renaming of the German Worker's Party (DAP) to the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP) was partially driven by a desire to draw upon both left-wing and right-wing ideals, with "Socialist" and "Workers'" appealing to the left, and "National" and "German" appealing to the right.[25] Nazi, the informal and originally derogatory term for a party member, abbreviates the party's name (Nationalsozialist [natsi̯oˈnaːlzotsi̯aˌlɪst]), and was coined in analogy with Sozi (pronounced [ˈzoːtsiː]), an abbreviation of Sozialdemokrat (member of the rival Social Democratic Party of Germany).[d][26] Members of the party referred to themselves as Nationalsozialisten (National Socialists), but some did occasionally embrace the colloquial Nazi (so Leopold von Mildenstein in his article series Ein Nazi fährt nach Palästina published in Der Angriff in 1934). The term Parteigenosse (party member) was commonly used among Nazis, with its corresponding feminine form Parteigenossin.[27]

> I doubt you would talk about Communists as
> "Commies" all the time. There is a reason you've
> been conditioned into using the term "Nazi" rather
> than what it's an abbreviation for.


As I said above, you yourself have used the word "commies" on this very board. So if that is inappropriate in any way, you have just discovered its umbrageousness quite recently.

Likewise, if there is some conspiratorial "reason [Maude] has been conditioned into using the term "Nazi," you too are a victim of that conspiracy because you have written of "Nazis" on RfM several times.

Your only motive in suddenly claiming that "Nazi" is verboten in polite society is because you want to argue, after years of having tried vainly to defend the Nazis as good-hearted souls who made a few mistakes, that the word "socialist" in the Nazi title means that the Holocaust is a leftist phenomenon.

Nazis bad, Nazis good, Nazis bad: please ignore all past statements to the contrary. Thus you tie yourself in logical and linguistic knots because you are unwilling to acknowledge that you were wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2024 06:55AM by Lot's Wife.

Maybe they can do a "passion play" or pageant about it?

Make it annual thing and pick up a lot of Mormons who are jonesing from losing Hill Cumorah and Manti pageants?

Maybe a whole new venue for the Mormon Travel Agents who are realizing a downturn in "Book of Mormon lands" tours?

Aren't the Mormon Travel Agents realizing any income from the newly popular claimed "Hopewell" setting of "Book of Mormon lands" in the eastern United States and up around the Great Lakes?

I guess not, since if you can drive there in your own car you don't need a tour guide? However, the Park Rangers are still telling tourists that the Hopewell people who built these earthworks had no written language! OOOPS!