There was a news story last week about a new vaccine, currently in trials, that worked against pancreatic cancer:

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https://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/pancreatic-cancer-vaccine-mrna-treatment-trial-rcna192702


mRNA vaccines show promise in pancreatic cancer in early trial
Fewer than 13% of people live more than five years after diagnosis. In a small trial, half of the participants mounted a lasting immune response against their cancer cells.


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But mention mRNA, vaccine, and COVID, people go crazy and imagine all sorts of conspiracies and plots of mind control, attempts to create a new human race of "genderless consumers," turn people into "Satan worshippers," and other ridiculous nonsense.


Why?


New disease threats are constantly on the horizon. Scientists spend years studying diseases and look for ways to stop them.

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehignett/2025/02/22/what-is-hku5-cov-2-scientists-find-bat-virus-similar-to-covid-19/

Researchers have discovered a virus that can enter human cells in a similar way to the virus that causes COVID-19. But the germ — HKU5-CoV-2 — doesn’t enter cells as effectively, so experts caution the findings shouldn’t be “overblown.”

Scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China described the virus and potential treatments for infections in the journal Cell this week.

What is HKU5-CoV-2?
HKU5-CoV-2 is a virus found in bats. It’s a type of coronavirus, a large group of germs that can affect mammals and birds. Some have passed from animals to humans, like SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19. Some coronaviruses cause mild symptoms in humans, while others can be lethal.

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Malaria was once thought to be caused by "bad air," hence the name. By the turn of the 20th century, disease bearing mosquitoes were found to be the vector of the disease.

Would you revert to blaming malaria on "bad air" just because someone told you?

Why?

Because they are shamans or faith leaders?

That makes you trust them?


Scientists are not perfect and have at times done unethical things -- the infamous Tuskegee Syphilis Study and Nazi concentration camp medical experiments are prime examples -- but such malpractice is very rare.


You have a brain. Use it. You can think and reason.


So, when the next disease pandemic threatens, use your head before drinking bleach, bathing in sheep dip, or eating horse paste.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2025 03:22PM by anybody.

I’m sure everyone on RfM will agree with you!

"but such malpractice is very rare"

Except when it's the norm. Any heavily regulated profession has immense pressure to follow norms even when the norms are obviously corrupt. Everyone who works at a hospital knows how hospital billing works. Do you see them quitting their jobs in protest?

The fact that dissenting doctors who successfully treated their Covid patients are losing their licenses over it should tell you the profession is a cult. In fact, most of what passes for science is a cult. Dissent is not tolerated.

XXX



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2025 01:14AM by Maude.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The fact that dissenting doctors who successfully
> treated their Covid patients are losing their
> licenses over it should tell you the profession is
> a cult. In fact, most of what passes for science
> is a cult. Dissent is not tolerated.


Do you have any proof to back up this claim?


You are proving my point about cult-like pseudoscience.

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https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/covid-19-and-alternative-treatments-what-you-need-to-know


Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses that usually cause mild to moderate upper-respiratory tract illnesses in people. However, three coronaviruses have caused more serious human disease. One causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS); another causes Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS); and the third causes COVID-19. The virus that causes COVID-19 is called SARS-CoV-2.

Some people have sought “alternative” remedies to prevent or to treat COVID-19. Some of these purported remedies include teas, essential oils, tinctures, herbal therapies such as oleander/oleandrin, and silver products such as colloidal silver. The Office of Dietary Supplements at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) has detailed fact sheets for consumers (in English and Spanish) and health professionals about specific dietary supplements and COVID-19. But there is no scientific evidence that any of these alternative remedies can prevent or cure COVID-19. In fact, some of them may not be safe to consume. It’s important to understand that although many herbal or dietary supplements (and some prescription drugs) come from natural sources, “natural” does not always mean that a product is a safer or better option for your health.

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Science is not a cult.

Dissent is not only tolerated, it's encouraged -- if you have proof to back up your claims.

Take Immanuel Velikovsky for example.

He put forward all kinds of wild, implausible theories to explain the miracles in the Exodus.


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_in_Collision


Worlds in Collision is a book by Immanuel Velikovsky published in 1950. The book postulates that around the 15th century BC, the planet Venus was ejected from Jupiter as a comet or comet-like object and passed near Earth (an actual collision is not mentioned). The object allegedly changed Earth's orbit and axis, causing innumerable catastrophes that are mentioned in early mythologies and religions from around the world. The book has been heavily criticized as a work of pseudoscience and catastrophism, and many of its claims are completely rejected by the established scientific community as they are not supported by any available evidence.


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You can be 100% certain about something in religion -- because you can make it up to be whatever you want it to be...unlike science.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2025 11:54PM by anybody.

>> The fact that dissenting doctors who successfully treated their Covid patients are losing their licenses over it should tell you the profession is a cult.

Bradley, there's a small amount of wiggle room in the practice of medicine, but not a lot. For instance, U.S, physicians can prescribe approved medicines "off label," meaning apart from their intended purpose. Or in certain cases, they can select from a menu of approved options.

But what they cannot do is claim that, say, a course of vitamins will cure someone's cancer without any other intervention. If you do something like that, your license will be yanked and the same patients who were willing to believe you will be just as willing to sue you.

In order for a medicine or treatment to be approved, it has to be proven to be reasonably safe and effective (if a medicine or treatment has a larger than normal risk, the potential risks and benefits will be thoroughly explained to the patient.) The science behind medicines and treatments is not 100%, but it's pretty darn close.

And if people want to throw that out in favor of folk medicine, then a walk through a 19th-century or earlier graveyard should be instructive.

Bradley wrote in part:

"In fact, most of what passes for science is a cult. Dissent is not tolerated."

Not true, because the sciences are based on actual research and fact-checking. Neither are required for religious leaders or other media commentators.

Do the sciences get it wrong at times? You bet! Here is another very sexist example of that.

In a book I read about the passing of the 19th Amendment giving women the right to vote (and whose title I cannot remember right now), the author noted that scientists back in the 1850s, all white and all male, believed that the sciences proved that the only place for a woman was in the home raising children. It really wasn't until Marie Curie, the French lady who discovered uranium, and even more importantly, women working outside of the home during World War II, that we began to see dents in that type of thinking based wholly on dominant white male social perspectives with little or no input from women.

No, the sciences aren't religions or cults, but they can be affected by group think, and that is why good proofs are needed to both support what scientists currently say and to challenge current scientific thinking on any topic.

MegaPharmaCorps "How much money can we make off this?"

True, that is what they worry about. But to make lots of money, there has to be a real problem, and they have to have something that is in some way a solution to the problem. AIDS, for example, is a real problem. A ton of money could be made if some company had an effective vaccine.

They have been striving mightily to create such a vaccine for 40-some years now. They have been tantalizingly close several times, but none of the candidate vaccines have met FDA requirements so far. So there is no cure nor vaccine, either of which would be worth a fortune. There are suppression therapies that can tamp down the virus and its symptoms,

Wanting to make money does not mean there is not an actual problem that needs solving.

There's been an open tab on my browser since last July about a man convicted of fraud for selling colloidal silver as a cure for Covid. I keep thinking 'some day I should post this story', and this looks like the thread to do it, finally!

Gordon Pedersen was pretending to be a doctor (ads with him sporting a stethoscope and a lab coat monogramed Dr Gordon Pedersen) and a web site My Doctor Suggests. He was selling colloidal silver before Covid, but went big time when Covid hit, and had $5 million plus in sales between 2020 and 2022. There had been a warrant out for his arrest, but he had managed to avoid arrest for 3 years before finally being caught. Then he flooded the legal system with Sovereign Citizen declarations,

From the Business Insider article:
Court records show that Pedersen filed a dozen lengthy documents over the three years authorities have been searching for him, claiming not to be "Mr. Pedersen" or any type of US citizen, and instead proclaiming himself a "corporate entity" and copyrighted "Living Soul."

Pedersen repeatedly referred to himself in his filings as ":Gordon-Hunter: Pedersen:©," calling the United States a foreign jurisdiction and insisting he was "not obligated to follow any foreign law in any foreign jurisdiction."

He also espoused a number of false or baseless conspiracy theories in his court filings, explaining his belief that COVID-19 is the same illness as the common cold and that the "war" against the virus was a "simulated war exercise." He also accused Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci of engineering the coronavirus and unleashing it on the public.
========================

Pedersen lives in Cedar Hills, UT, a well-to-do town in northern Utah Country, next to the even more well-to-do town of Alpine, UT. It is extremely LDS, so I consider it all but certain that Gordie is a Mormon.

Long story short, he decided to plead guilty on the second day of his trial to two charges if the others were dropped.

Of the two articles linked below, the SLTrib article is probably paywalled, and goes more into the medical claims and the outcome of the trial. The Business Insider gives more information on the sovereign citizen aspect, and is not paywalled.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2024/07/30/this-utahn-claimed-silver-could/

https://www.businessinsider.com/utah-man-silver-covid-19-cure-manhunt-sovereign-citizen-2023-8

And now I finally get to close that tab on my browser...

I didn't know, but should have guessed, some quacks would push that for COVID. Good grief.

I remember learning about historical attempts and uses for colloidal silver, mostly back before antibiotics. There are certain bacteria (not viruses like COVID) that were inhibited with silver under certain conditions. It involves the type of cell wall and silver sticking to it. In vitro, concentrations of the silver can be reached that might help, but good luck in vivo.

Specially treated surgical dressings with it might be be helpful preventing bacterial infections. I know they are in use.

I heard some company (Miracle Brand) makes bed sheets that are "infused with silver" so you can prevent infections and not wash them as often(!). I guess they are selling the idea that if it works with surgical dressing, it should work for sheets. This fringes on fraudulent like homeopathic claims.

There seems to be no end to claims about things that have a partial unrelated use to work against COVID. Snake oil pushers are always with us. People who wouldn't know bacteria from viruses or parasites are going to buy it.

You should close that tab. It's been open too long!

The SLTrib ended their article pointing out the irony that at the time of sentencing, he is being treated for a skin infection with silver sufladiazine.

LOL. I missed that. Good grief.

https://www.news-medical.net/health/The-Size-of-SARS-CoV-2-Compared-to-Other-Things.aspx


Comparing bacteria and SARS-CoV-2 sizes

The SARS-CoV-2 virus is a much smaller particle compared to the primary models for bacterial cell biology, including Bacillus subtitles, Staphylococcus aureus, and Escherichia Coli and Caulobacter crescentus, all of which have a cell volume that ranges from 400 nm to as large as 3 µm (3000 nm).

The large size of such bacterial species often contribute to their diverse reproductive strategies and ultimately maximize their ability to produce and release large offspring.

Whilst size comparisons between viruses and bacteria can be useful to researchers, it is also useful to compare the size of SARS-CoV-2 to other things that are encountered daily. For example, a dust mite is typically 200 µm in size. If we take a 100 nm SARS-CoV-2 particle, this makes the dust mite 2000 times larger.


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https://www.vaccinate.initiatives.qld.gov.au/vaccination-blog/why-antibiotics-cant-be-used-to-treat-viruses-colds-or-the-flu

Viruses vs bacteria

Viruses are different to bacteria. Bacteria attack your cells from the outside of the cell. However, viruses actually move into, and live inside your cells. Viruses can’t reproduce on their own, like bacteria do. Instead, virus cells will latch onto your healthy cells and use those cells to reproduce.

Viruses and bacteria also have a different structure and a different way of surviving. Viruses are surrounded by a protective protein coating; they don’t have cell walls that can be attacked by antibiotics like bacteria does. It is because of this that antibiotics don’t work on viruses.

Can’t I take antibiotics ‘just in case’?

Taking antibiotics when they aren’t needed actually increases the risk that bacteria become resistant to antibiotics. See, like any living organism, bacteria evolve to adapt to changing environments. If exposed to antibiotics enough, bacteria could evolve to become resistant. Doctors and medical experts see this as a big potential problem, because it increases the chances that harmful bacteria can no longer be treated, making us all more vulnerable.

Taking antibiotics when you don’t need them is also a waste and puts you at risk of side effects. This could mean a rash, upset stomach or diarrhoea.

Whilst size comparisons between viruses and bacteria can be useful to researchers, it is also useful to compare the size of SARS-CoV-2 to other things that are encountered daily. For example, a dust mite is typically 200 µm in size. If we take a 100 nm SARS-CoV-2 particle, this makes the dust mite 2000 times larger.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2025 08:10PM by anybody.

I take a D3 and B complex daily. Those are the only supplements I use. I usually buy at Walgreens. The main thing I check on the label is to see if the product is from Utah. I do not trust any supplements from there. To my understanding the majority of Utah based MLM products are fraudulent. In my mind it taints everything health related from that state. This guy is just one of countless charlatans promoting cures to gullible folks.

Lots of responses to the following question on Reddit.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/hmfnl7/what_is_it_with_utah_and_mlmscam_companies_most/


What is it with Utah and MLM/scam companies? Most MLMs are based in Utah, such as Doterra, Young Living, Usana, LuLaRoe, etc., as well as a company that may be a scam, Nikola motors, which is founded by Trevor Milton who grew up in Utah. Anyone know what's going on?

I think many people have decided that if someone is gullible enough to believe in Mormonism, they are ripe targets for scams.

Touche.

Utah has very lax laws when it comes to MLM businesses.

Here's the latest on the mystery disease outbreak in the Congo.

Most people in Western countries, even poor people, have access to food and aren't forced to eat bushmeat to survive or eat infected animals out of traditional tribal or religious reasons.

That makes distrust or willful avoidance of information a prime suspect.

Religion can influence living in a closed information bubble.


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https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/misc-emerging-topics/tests-rule-out-ebola-marburg-dr-congo-unexplained-illness-clusters

Testing in two unexplained illness clusters in Equateur Province in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) has ruled out Ebola and Marburg viruses, and further testing and investigations are under way, the World Health Organization (WHO) African regional office said in its latest weekly outbreak and health emergencies update.

The newest cluster is centered in Bromate Villega in Basankusu Health Zone and was reported to provincial officials on February 9. Initially, 32 cases were reported, including 20 deaths in the community. As of February 15, a total of 419 suspected cases and 45 deaths have been reported. Half of the deaths occurred within 2 days of symptom onset. Symptoms include fever, headache, body ache, neck stiffness, cough, and gastrointestinal symptoms.

Specimens from 13 patients were tested at the National Institute of Biomedical Research (INRB) in Kinshasa, all negative for Ebola and Marburg viruses. "Differential diagnosis under investigation include malaria, viral haemorrhagic fever, food or water poisoning, typhoid fever, and meningitis," the WHO said. Both Ebola and Marburg viruses produce hemorrhagic (bleeding-related) fevers.


Children in initial cluster exposed to bats

The earlier unexplained outbreak was initially reported on January 21 and is centered in Boloko Village in Bolomba Health District. Three community deaths in children were noted earlier in the month, with reports that they had consumed bat carcasses and experienced hemorrhagic symptoms before they died. Other similar illnesses have been reported in children, with 12 cases—including 8 deaths—in Boloko Village and 2 cases and 1 death in nearby Danda Village. Testing at the provincial and INRB labs were negative for Ebola and Marburg viruses.

"The exact circumstances of exposure have not yet been established in both outbreaks. Additionally, no epidemiological links have been established between the cases in the two affected health zones," the WHO said.

Equateur Province is in the northwestern part of the DRC and has been affected by Ebola outbreaks in the past.


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Oh, I'm sure the looney tune crew will claim it is all a hoax even as the body count spirals out of control. (sigh)