So, I've started watching a new series on Hulu - "How I Escaped My Cult" - and just watched an episode that reminded me of something.

On my mission in the 90's in California, I recall meeting some people that were members of La Luz Del Mundo (LLDM). At the time I knew nothing of that organization's history, controversies, similarity with TSCC/MFMC, etc.; I just thought it was another small-ish evangelical offshoot of mainstream Christianity. (I was wrong. They are in fact quite similar to los Mormones.) Very interesting series, I'd recommend a watch.

All that said, I'm curious if there's ever discussion amongst the leaders of the larger, cult-like organizations about their "competition." Does talk about the old boys in SLC ever happen in the C-suite of Scientology? Do either of them give thought to Luz Del Mundo? How 'bout the JW leadership? Are there or have there ever been any plans/programs within these orgs to try to prevent their members from not just defecting and leaving their own particular organizations but also to discourage joining any of the other cults? It would be amusing to know if Scientology/JW/LLDM ever showed up as line items on an agenda for some meeting in the COB.

The Mexican temples have similar Kolobian architecture, but the Houston temple is in the Greco-Roman style.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Luz_del_Mundo#Houston_Temple



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2025 09:49PM by anybody.

anybody Wrote:
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> The Mexican temples have similar Kolobian
> architecture, but the Houston temple is in the
> Greco-Roman style.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Luz_del_Mundo#Hou
> ston_Temple

Iglesia ni Christo has a few buildings which look slightly like LDS ones with an Asian twist.

I was with the JWs way back in the day.

I don't recall any efforts or programs like that within the JW organization but then mere common mortals aren't privy to what all the top JWs may get up to. It might well be part of their master plan but kept secret.

I think, though, that they do a mighty fine job of turning their members off every other religion, pounding home the idea over and over and over and over and over basically that "if we're not true then nobody's true". JWs even call their organization "The Truth".

Once that concept is ingrained in you it's very tough to winkle it out of your brain.

I believe that that is part of the reason why so many JWs leave that organization but do not join another religious group, because (1) it is so ingrained in them by JW leaders that "nobody else has the truth" (like we do) and (2) once you've managed to get out of their vice-grip on your mind and life you are very likely to steer clear of any other church group, just as with so many exmos re the LDS Church.

When I was in, the JWs did go on and on and on a bit about the Catholic Church. They refer to it as "The Great Harlot of Babylon". After your system has absorbed that kind of teaching for years, and you're encouraged NOT to use non-JW references to research or learn anything outside their organization, you tend to write it off rather than learn anything objective about it, much less join it (God forbid - literally!).

Of course, none of these groups, in my experience anyway, consider themselves cults. That only applies to everybody else. :)

David Icke claims JWs and Mormons are the same group.

http://www.whale.to/c/mormons.html

I don't believe this but they do copy each other.

Good grief. Why would you cite an antisemitic conspiracy nut who thinks Mormons and JWs are parts of the Illuminati?

There are all sorts of reasons that the two religions resemble each other, including many of the typical cult dynamics and the need to address through public relations the same publicity problems.

Why discredit your argument by bringing the Protocols of the Elders of Israel into it?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> Good grief. Why would you cite an antisemitic
> conspiracy nut who thinks Mormons and JWs are
> parts of the Illuminati?
>
> There are all sorts of reasons that the two
> religions resemble each other, including many of
> the typical cult dynamics and the need to address
> through public relations the same publicity
> problems.
>
> Why discredit your argument by bringing the
> Protocols of the Elders of Israel into it?

I said clearly that I did not agree with him.

Not everything is an argument or a "cite".

I wanted to show that a few people out there think LDS/JWs are the same show. Anyone with half a braincell can see most of Icke's ideas are lunacy. I think everyone on here is intelligent enough to work that out.

If you want what I actually believe about this question, here you go. I think the JW/LDS similarities are down to:

* American origins
* Common cultural backgrounds
* Corporate culture
* Parallel evolution
* Direct copying
* A significant number of converts who have been to both groups

JWs don't tend to be interested in building fancy temples. Other groups are. But the Bethel complex could be seen as a parallel to the COB.

I was looking up Cao Dai. I have never had any interaction with Cao Dai or even seen any of its buildings up close. Cao Dai temples look more like a case of parallel evolution than deliberate stealing from Mormonism. They seem to take their influence from Roman Catholic architecture and Vietnamese traditional architecture.

By the way, about the one thing David Icke does get right there is the Masonic influence on both Mormonism and JWs. It's very obvious on Mormonism down to the temple garments. It's less obvious with the Jehovah's Witnesses, but there is a Masonic influence you can make out on some early JW monuments.
https://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/russell_c/pyramid_monument.html

The Watchtower Society removed this pyramid commissioned by Charles Taze Russell a couple of years ago. Much like Russell M. Nelson helped remove some Masonic symbols off the Salt Lake temple.

I don't agree with the rest of Icke's piece, as I said in the first place.

Thank you for the clarification.

You should have seen the terrified look on a pair of sister missionaries one day when I stood on my porch and pointed in different directions.

There is where the Kingstons live, leave them alone and they'll leave you alone

There is where the FLDS has a small group

There is the Apostolic Brotherhood

The is the community of christ building. They used to be the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Say.

There is where the old fort was that had the big rebellion against Brigham. (I forget now what they were called, but it didn't end well for them)

And over there is the Sisterhood.

They and most Brighamites are totally unaware of any of the 40 or so different branches of mormonism let alone any other groups.

You got be googling. Found this link on different Mormon sects. I was surprised https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_denominations_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

There's at least seventy I'm aware of. Most of them are really obscure.

My parents were very devout, and between them, held every office in the branch church. My mother, and later my sister, became Christian Science "Teachers," who train people to be healing professionals, "Practitioners."

Christian Science held that all religions have some truth, some more than others, but CS is the most "spiritual" of them all--thus, a monopoly on the "highest" manifestation of "Divine Mind," i.e. God. So it is simultaneously exclusivist ("We have the only real Truth") yet universalistic (Everybody has some truth, and everybody will eventually come to true Truth, if not here, then in the hereafter).

Contradictory? yeah.

In the 1960s, Christian Science was building its new church center in Boston, a very ambitious enterprise (pun) when its decline was picking up speed. In 1967, we visited Temple Square. My mother was very impressed, and felt that LDS shared some kindship with CS. She was right, but not for the reasons that matter (similarity of cultic practice).

All that said, I'd say Christian Scentists felt they could pick and choose what they liked, or denigrated, in other religions, cults or mainstream.

Two last thoughts: my mother had an irrational hatred and fear of Roman Catholicism, believing that Jesuits "prayed against" CS. That practice is called "mental malpractice." (Take that to court!) Secondly, when I was young, Christian Scientists were almost always conservative Republicans. Now they're liberal Democrats. Decline shows itself in interesting ways.

caffiend Wrote:
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> Secondly, when I was young, Christian Scientists
> were almost always conservative Republicans. Now
> they're liberal Democrats. Decline shows itself in
> interesting ways.

I am surprised to read that liberal D's would become Christian Scientists. Or is it the other way around?

By "decline" do you mean morphing from R to D?

There is definitely cross-pollination between some of these groups

There is a campaign called Meet a Scientologist which is a clone of the I'm a Mormon campaign of a few years before.

https://www.scientology.cc/tv/meet-a-scientologist/

I'm also aware of JW.org altering their website's opinion to look more like Mormon dot org.

They may not admit it but they do it.

Correction: I mean Appearance not opinion!

Also the Scientologists were influenced by Meet the Mormons with that name.

Ha, I was going to say I'd be very surprised if they ever changed their beliefs in a noticeable way.

I don't know what their web site looked like before. In which ways did they change its appearance?

Nightingale Wrote:
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> Ha, I was going to say I'd be very surprised if
> they ever changed their beliefs in a noticeable
> way.
>
> I don't know what their web site looked like
> before. In which ways did they change its
> appearance?

Hard to explain but I can visualize it. It ended up with similar formatting, and pretty much the same shade of blue being used as the Mormon one. Just after the time Mormon dot org was being promoted, JW dot org appeared. At some point I noticed JW material started shifting towards more photography based imagery instead of the bad school text book style art. I also suspect Watchtower has been influenced by Ensign/Liahona, although they put way more emphasis on it.

I think there was at least one doctrinal change I'm aware of. Since the 1970s, the JWs have put more and more emphasis on families and having children, and being together with Jehovah. (Their main roadblock is the 144,000 thing.) Whereas before some JWs wouldn't have families because they thought armageddon was about to happen.

I'm not a JayDub so I'm just an outsider looking in. The latest JW technique of standing around with a cart of literature near bus stations is not very Mormon and not very effective.

The Scientologists definitely have been influenced by Mormons. The Meet a Scientologist campaign is straight out of the Meet the Mormons/I'm a Mormon playbook. Because Scientologists have showbiz connections a lot of their videos tend to be slick. Their music is a lot more intense than the Mormon stuff.

It's hard to tell what's going on here. Are designers stealing from their opponents or are leaders of these orgs checking up on the competition? I think both.

There are other cults like the Hare Krishnas who seem to take little or no influence off Mormonism, except maybe

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha, I was going to say I'd be very surprised if
> they ever changed their beliefs in a noticeable
> way.
>
> I don't know what their web site looked like
> before. In which ways did they change its
> appearance?

Hard to explain but I can visualize it. It ended up with similar formatting, and pretty much the same shade of blue being used as the Mormon one. Just after the time Mormon dot org was being promoted, JW dot org appeared. At some point I noticed JW material started shifting towards more photography based imagery instead of the bad school text book style art. I also suspect Watchtower has been influenced by Ensign/Liahona, although they put way more emphasis on it.

I think there was at least one doctrinal change I'm aware of. Since the 1970s, the JWs have put more and more emphasis on families and having children, and being together with Jehovah. (Their main roadblock is the 144,000 thing.) Whereas before some JWs wouldn't have families because they thought armageddon was about to happen.

I'm not a JayDub so I'm just an outsider looking in. The latest JW technique of standing around with a cart of literature near bus stations is not very Mormon and not very effective.

The Scientologists definitely have been influenced by Mormons. The Meet a Scientologist campaign is straight out of the Meet the Mormons/I'm a Mormon playbook. Because Scientologists have showbiz connections a lot of their videos tend to be slick. Their music is a lot more intense than the Mormon stuff.

It's hard to tell what's going on here. Are designers stealing from their opponents or are leaders of these orgs checking up on the competition? I think both.

There are other cults like the Hare Krishnas who seem to take little or no influence off Mormonism, except maybe handing out books. (The Hare Krishna ones are pretty unreadable.)

I am going to compare some things between the Mormons (as I was raised) and JWs as I have been learning through an ex JW yt channel.

In the late 80s and early 90s, the Mormons produced some heavy emotionally manipulative videos: Together Forever and On the way Home. These were free VHS videos that people would call a telecenter and LDS missionaries would deliver. They were extremely popular and as a missionary I easily delivered over a hundred of these throughout my mission. About 5 families were moved by the "spirit" to join the Mormon church. They are extremely cringeworthy to watch.

I have since watched recently produced JW films that mirror the Mormon ones. They have one called Prodigal Son and True Love. These are absolutely terrible.

Another trend is in home study of lessons or indoctrination. I believe the Mormons now have a home study program where you read the same lesson before the same lesson is taught on Sunday. The JWs have been doing this for years.

Another trend is how the Governing Body now produces yearly talks like LDS General Conference.For decades, witnesses had no idea who their leaders were. About 10 years ago, they started to give televised talks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2025 04:00PM by messygoop.

Your last sentence got cut off there, messy. I might be interested to check out those JW films - are they the ones you're watching on YouTube?

Nightingale Wrote:
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> Your last sentence got cut off there, messy. I
> might be interested to check out those JW films -
> are they the ones you're watching on YouTube?

exJW Panda Tower produces great content.

And yes, I am having difficulty with my smart phone today.

Thank you! I am curious to see what they're saying these days. So I'm going back into the belly of the beast.

If I never post here again you'll know where I am.

Nightingale Wrote:
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> Your last sentence got cut off there, messy. I
> might be interested to check out those JW films -
> are they the ones you're watching on YouTube?

Here's a video I saw a few years ago. I watched a few exJW videos and they mentioned Caleb & Sophia, a kid's cartoon. Most of Caleb & Sophia is animated, apart from this episode, which is bad on multiple levels. (MLM?)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=shared&v=EVou_jtGXSc

In this short episode (2 mins?) the kids go to Bethel which is the Mecca/Vatican/Salt Lake for JWs.

What I picked up off this is that Mormons have better architecture (or did). Most Mormon architecture is the same bland pap as this. The Bethel buildings look like MTCs and Mormon plants. The gardens have that same stale feel as Mormon and Scientology's gardens.

At one point you even see ?Caleb sitting on the knee of the JW president. Their leaders are beginning to look like Mormon GAs.

There is only one true cult! All others are of the devil.

I don't know if we have any scientology practitioners in Lethbridge but between the Mormons, JW's, Christian Reformers, holy roller evangelicals, old order Mennonites, Calvinists, 7th Day Adventists and whatever the Missouri LDS are calling themselves now (I've lost track), THERE'S A CULT FOR EVERYONE!!!!