to someone burdened with pain or worry.

I attended a Unitarian Church for seven years as an Atheist. A poll of the congregation showed that *half* of congregation were Atheists and/or Agnostics.

Every week we lit candles and focused on calming prayers for a few minutes to start the service. Those leading the quiet time usually said, "For those who believe in God or in a higher purpose or energy . . ."

During this time, I liked to focus on some of the most beautiful places I've visited in my life. I thought about different Redwood parks and remembered that some of the trees were small when Jesus was a baby and were reaching the clouds when our Declaration of Independence was signed.

I liked to think about my favorite places in Yosemite Park, Maui, Spain, Alaska,and Italy. Focusing on the grandure of the earth always calms me, helps fears fade, and gives me hope and energy.

I don't see any reason to tell a suffering person that they don't have a right to pray or ask for prayers. Doesn't matter to me if they call themselves Atheists or not. What a grieving person needs is love, support, calmness, and hope.

It's black/white thinking that prevails when someone says that Atheists are hypocritical for asking for prayers. There's room for many beliefs under the Atheist/Agnostc umbrella just as there are many belief systems at play with Christians and other faiths.

I'm not someone who prays regularly , but sometimes prayers help others. It's a good thing if someone knows they're not alone and that others care. We don't have to believe in a supreme male being sitting on a thrown in the sky to find peace in positive meditation or prayer. I would hope we could kindly offer good thoughts to anyone in need who asks for them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2010 09:23AM by Cheryl.

Well said, Cheryl.

I agree with every word you said.

A question about the Unitarian Church (or attending any church for that matter).

After becoming an atheist, I thought I might as well go to church for cultural reasons instead of in my old religious persona. While the rituals were interesting, I couldn't stand all the talk about God and prayers and surrendering one's self to an invisible force. My new found freedom from mind control and delusion couldn't take it without some actual physical reaction occurring.

So my question is, how do you deal with being in church, hearing words that you've considered to be untrue at best, and going through the motions of what seem like prayer (at whom is the prayer directed, please?)

Thanks for sharing any insights.

I couldn't take it.

The Unitarian Church I attended only mentioned his teachings in passing occasionally. I only knew one Unitarian lady who claimed to believe in the traditional God and Jesus.

I saw what some termed as the prayer time as just a quiet time to find my own quiet calm and peace of mind. That's what I now consider to be prayer and I don't care that traditional churches or the dictionary have differing points of view. It isn't my job to supervise and judge how others view meditation or prayer unless they're using my name and reputaion in the temple to raise funds and spread lies.

Maybe meditation is a better word?

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I just think that either you do not fit the traditional "Webster's Dictionary" definition of atheist or you are not praying.

I don't think anyone is going to deny someone comfort if the meditation or prayer comforts the person who is doing it. Additionally it has nothing to do with rights, of COURSE some one has the RIGHT to do what ever they want with their religion. However, it just doesn't make sense. If a non-believer asks a believer to "pray for me," that is VERY odd. Why would a non believer ask that of a believer, unless the asker had some kind of faith however small that was. (Which is great for them but then they are NOT an atheist.)

Everyone is allowed a moment of doubt. Even an atheist.

And a moment of fear as they contemplate the death of a loved one.

But that doubt about modern medicine does not justify resorting to voodoo. Resorting to voodoo may do more harm than good as abandoning reason for prayer may also do more harm than good:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?_r=2

Some people ask me if I eat eggs or cheese, when I say yes,
they then procede to tell me I'm not a vegatarian.

It's funny how they are always looking to define someone else.

My ex-son-in-law is a vegetarian who eats dairy products but not eggs. He claims to be the one true kind of vegetarian. LOL

eggs, milk and cheese. Vegans do not eat ANY animal bi-product. Different designations.

If I never eat dairy do I need a new label and who's in charge of that?

If I eat cream of cauliflower soup and it has chicken broth in it must I now resume eating meat because I have fallen off the vegetarian wagon?

Who benefits from this? Need to know, identification and labeling?

If I’m and agnostic, does that mean I can’t pray or is it just an opportunity for someone to call me a hypocrite?

It seems to me that those who are so concerned about identifying and labeling others are looking for the chance to call them on any perceived deviation from said belief and what do they get out of that? Proving some else wrong? Telling them they are not what they claim to be -- WHAT is it????

GREY isn't that a label? There are definitions that are widely accepted. You don't have to accept them for yourself. If someone told me they were a vegetarian I would assume they ate milk and eggs. If they said they were a vegan I'd assume they didn't

If someone says they are atheist I assume they don't pray.

Then I will most likely ask or if I can't ask, I prepare vegan to be safe.

The point is, vegan and vegetarian are two different words with two different meanings and can not be used interchangeably vegan being a subset of vegetarian.

When I am asked to pray for someone it is not about me but the one asking.

Let me share a story.

For years I was a Hospice Nurse and yes I am an atheist. One of my patients was returning to her home State for the final stage of her disease and was already in the beginning stages of the dying process. My patient asked that I ride in the ambulance with her to the airport. On our way to the airport this was our conversation. I'll call the patient Mary.

MARY: "Kid I want you to promise me something." (she always called me Kid)

ME: "Mary, I can't make a promise until I know what I'm promising and I never make a promise unless I know I can keep it."

MARY: "Kid, hand me my purse."

MARY: Puts her hand in her purse and takes out a rosary and says, "Kid,I want you to promise to say a Rosary for me everyday while I'm in _____. "

ME: "Mary, I don't know anything about a rosary, I wouldn't even know how to hold one."

MARY: "Not to worry Kid." [And she reaches in her purse and takes out printed instructions on how to say the Rosary. She had her Priest bring the instructions to her home the night before. Then she told me it was a special Rosary that she had gotten at Lourdes]

ME: "Mary, that is a promise that I can keep. I would be honoured to do this for you."

Helen, you did that because you are a kind person and a good nurse.

Some people, well, they'd rather be "true to themselves" than do anything like that. It seems.

That is not the case. Atheists being true to themselves often used the time others used in prayer to actually do something to help the person involved.

Quite frankly, if someone asks me to go against my true nature for their personal benefit comfort, they are being rude and offensive. If they ask me for the help and support I can give, fine, to ask me to do something that I think takes away time from what I think of genuine value and to do something that may actually be harmful and goes against who I am as a person, well that is just rude.

A will that is focused by ritual can change the world. http://www.truveo.com/triumph-des-willens-full-movie-english-subbed/id/1993042758

... the grief we all suffer at the loss of a loved one is real.

When my TBM brother unexpectedly died in 1992, my family and I put our religious differences aside for reasons of good form. There is a time and a place for everything. Such situations and circumstances are simply not the time or the place to engage in theological debate.

As my brother lay in the hospital bed on life support, his ribs crushed 'neath the protective garment that had so obviously failed him, my mom looked up and asked me if I believe. I told her I couldn't really say, then asked if she believes. All she said was "Absolutely!"

At that moment, I don't think either of us had a problem with the other's view.

Timothy

I would hope I could be as accomodating under such trying circumstances.

Of course when posters on this board reply to others, the responders are not usually in emotional turmoil and those they're trying to help are the ones who are suffering. I can't see any reason to take a hard line on definitions and labels with someone in deep crisis. Although I'm not a person who prays, I do understand how it comforts and calms many people in need. I also understand the satisfaction of knowing there are people out in cyper space who understand what I have or am now going through. I see no reason to kick someone who is down by telling them they shouldn't ask for prayers, especially since I know so many people who consider it a prayer to simply ponder the universe for a few minutes or remember a touching scene. Many people who pray do not pray to a personage. Agreeing to think healing thoughts for someone in need is not that hard and if it bothers someone to promise, they can easily just simply not make the agreement.

Anyone can and should feel comfortable to ask for support. If a person was on the web asking for opinions then they should expect a wide range of opinions. Disagreeing is not "kicking while down."

Hard line definitions help us lead less confusing lives.

ANYONE can ask for prayers, I just can't see how they can at the same time say they don't believe in the entity the prayer is supposedly going to.

Anyone disagreeing with her view is being demonized as heartless souls that are kicking others down. This is not so and such demonizing is inappropriate.

Meditation, affirmation, candles and positive thoughts to not offer the hope of divine intervention or imaginary friends and that is what separates prayer from the list. Meditation, affirmation, candles and positive thoughts do what prayer does so why involve an imaginary friend that should have been left behind in childhood? For me Meditation, affirmation, candles and positive thoughts work and there is no need to involve something that implies or requires an imaginary friend. If I need a friend, I will go talk to a real friend, which works better than talking to an imaginary friend every time.

It may well be that my attitudes developed because I was raised atheist thus learning meditation affirmation and all as the way to center myself while those that were raised with religion learned prayer. When I see an atheist rely on things like prayer rather than meditation, it appears to me that the atheist is using an unnecessary crutch that that could be abandon if they wished.

Then there is the evidence that prayer in some cases may even be counter product

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?_r=3

As I see it, for an atheist, there is no benefit in using prayer over meditation but there may be harm in using prayer.