So I have a close friend who is a very run-of-the-mill TBM housewife. In the time shortly after I resigned, I thought that it would be easy enough to maintain a friendship with her, mostly because she never tried to push me back into the church. Now some time has passed however, and she' starting to get on my nerves.

She's not doing anything wrong exactly, and I feel mean for even thinking about it. It's just that as time has passed I feel as if I have less and less in common with her. She says things that really irritate me, that I probably would have never noticed a year or two ago.

I know i'm being a nit-picky bitch and I should just accept people as they are if I want to be their friends, but i'm starting to get the feeling that i'm kind of....I don't know...beyond her? I feel awful for even saying it. I'm certainly not of a high intelligence by any means. I'm certainly not more mature than anyone else. I don't even really know how to explain it. She just kind of seems like she's hit a plateau. I didn't notice it nearly as strongly until I got a facebook account and started seeing some of her banter on the newsfeed. Some of it makes me kind of, embarrassed for her.

She literally has nothing else to talk about other than church and babies. That's it. Unless one of her kids or husband or Thomas S. Monson takes a shit then it's not of interest to her/she doesn't understand it. She has no other curiosities or hobbies. So we don't really have much to talk about anymore.

Now there is nothing wrong with those interests, I have a family and attend a church myself. On the other hand, that's not my entire life. When I try to have a conversation with her about anything else (books, music, politics, ANYTHING) it's like she just draws a blank. I don't understand, she's not stupid by any means. Hell she was always incredibly sharp and witty back when we were teens. It just seems like this Molly life has sucked every ounce of her personality out of her. I don't know who she is anymore.

Is this ridiculous rant making sense to anyone else? It's getting to the point where I don't even really want to be around her most of the time. We've been friends since I was about 12. I hate to let a friendship die, but do I just move on? Or try and remain her friend in case she needs a non-mo to confide in for something?

It's perfectly normal for friendships to evolve; sometimes they grow, sometimes they die. As people grow and change it's only natural that someone with whom you once connected will no longer share those things which brought you together in the first place.

I see no need to make a production out it. If you genuinely want to spend time with her, try suggesting something outside of her box that might stimulate new conversation. If that doesn't work, just spend less time with her. You don't have to drop her like a bad habit. At this point you can either invest effort for the sake of continuing a friendship that no longer seems to be serving you in the hopes that you can revive it or just let it fade naturally.

but: what were the circumstances of yr first meet? school days?
If childhood friends, keep it at that.

explain yrself (to all Friends); chances are, they'll understand; that's RESPECT that we all need!

This happens in friendships. You drift apart. If that happens, the best thing to do is acknowledge it and say "You know what? We just don't have anything in common anymore" and go your separate ways.

Most people do. They call it different things "Growing apart", "going our separate ways", "developed different interests", "he became a right wing extremist, I became a raging liberal" etc..

It is a natural part of life. It happens gradually most of the time but big changes can cause big spikes. Leaving TSCC seems to have caused many people here to grow past their old TBM friends. When I stopped drinking, I grew apart from my old drinking buddies.

What you are saying makes perfect sense because it happens to everyone that has genuine friendships with people that are free to grow what ever direction they want. Of course TSCC does not seem to allow for people to grow in any direction except the one dictated by TSCC, which changes the whole equation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2011 12:52AM by MJ.

I admitt, I got a chuckle out of this.

and a question for you . . .

Why does recognizing that you no longer have anything in common with someone make you the bad guy (or girl, in this case)?

It is what it is, might as well see it happening.

If you really want to try to save the friendship, maybe you ought to try doing something new with this friend. Take a community class, go to yoga, or a museum, or a concert. Join a book club together. Maybe if she did something other than church and family she might develop some interests.

No need to "break up" or anything, though, if you are bored with the friendship. Just let it die a natural death.

Another statement I like that applies to our friendship relationships throughout our lives from childhood to adulthood and into our senior years:

"We have friends in spots."

I am a supporter of allowing friendship relationships to change gracefully. Sometimes that doesn't happen and a change is very abrupt. I have experienced both.

I have a relationship with people I have known over 60 years, and some I have known only a few months to a few years.
They are all different in some way. We have different reasons to connect. They are not the same. Those things in common are not always the same with everyone.

Some of our friends are very needy in different ways. They need to talk on the phone, or at lunch, or in emails. Some only need to connect once in awhile. Some can "hear" us and our concerns, and some cannot.
Some are not so needy, and are just happy to know us and spend some time with us, no matter how that works out.

I have found that it helps a lot to be flexible and understand that people, places and things in our lives change and give ourselves permission to make that OK.

In the LDS Church I saw that most of my friendships were generated by association and by assignment - the Visiting Teachers, which auxiliaries I worked in, etc. As those assignments changed, my associations with LDS women, in particular changed. I found I knew a lot of LDS women, for instance, but didn't spent much individual time, or personal time with the women. Most of the time, I was really quite busy with my own life, and really didn't have much "free" time while I was raising a family, working part time, and doing my "callings" (assignments) in the LDS Church. That experience is typical of how Mormonism works, and why I call it a tribe as that is how it functions. We are, as women, members of the tribe, and when we leave, some of the women we knew as "friends" often feel rejected, and betrayed and are no longer comfortable with us as we have changed the ground rules by actions and choices. Not everyone adjusts to that kind of change.
For some, what they loved, they now reject and that is a two way street.

Having said that, I agree with Imaworkinonit, above. When (and if) you do get together with her, focus on activities. Go to an exercise class with her, or a museum, historic exhibit, etc. Help her to broaden her world.

I wouldn't do anything drastic. Focusing on activities is good and you can see less of her if that doesn't work. You don't have to say anything. I would try to find somethings to do that you both enjoy and if you can't find any common ground, let nature take its course.People change and there is no reason to feel guilty. You can still be pleasant, see her occasionally, acknowledge her birthday and so on. You don't have to spend a lot of time with her if it isn't something you enjoy.
Be busy with other things

Thanks for your post, Madame Radness. This was very tough for me to admit. When I resigned, I was shunned, and it was crazy-making , when former "friends" would look past me as though I was invisible, and not even give me a nod, or a word. I would see them honk to puck each other up for activities, for tennis, shopping, a movie, and I would no longer be included.

Maybe it is "sour grapes," but I don't think so. I went from disliking their rude behavior, to disliking them as people. You reached your conclusion quicker than I did, but it was very freeing to finally admit that I do not like these people. Even if they rushed to welcome me with open arms, it is too late. I have "grown", all right. I have grown impatient with rudeness. I have grown away from gossip, and bragging.

In a lot of instances, it is not "growing out of" friendships, but just changing. I hesitate to pass judgment that they are too petty and foolish for me. We're just different: I like my children, my career, science, poetry, reading, the newspaper, tennis, hiking, skiing, photography, and classical music. Not one Mormon ex-friend cares about even one of those things, and I don't care about designer shoes, redecorating houses, cars, the husband-wife relationship, missionary work, the temple, The Ensign, or pioneer trek.

Even one interest can create a friendship. I have tennis friends, book club friends, science geek friends at work, and chick-flick friends. Some of these friends disagree about politics, religion, marriage, kids, abortion, living together out of wedlock, etc, so we "agree to disagree" and these things are not an issue while we're together. Mormons seem unable to get off their soap box for more than a few minutes. They can preach to each other, and leave the rest of us alone.

I'll echo what others have said ... I've grown out of relationships with TBMs AND ExMos. I can count my true friends on one hand.

I'm a firm believer in the "5-7 Year Personality Cycle" that was taught to me by my shrink when I was getting divorced. The theory is that most folks go through personality cycles every 5 - 7 years. Such persons' life goals and objectives change and if a partner/friend can't/won't keep up with them, then paths begin to diverge.

I can see that in my own life. When I was 18, I was a barely-graduated from HS idiot with no plan for anything. Went into the service, joined the church, got a BS, then an MBA... I know I've changed and many friends and my ex couldn't fathom the changes, let alone adjust to them. The biggest change was morphing from a flaming co-dependent (enabler to all) to more centered (touch of narcissism) whole person. I'm still an idiot, just a different kind of idiot.

Growing out of relationships has catalysts on both sides of any given relationship.

Just sayin'...

Ron

" went from disliking their rude behavior, to disliking them as people. You reached your conclusion quicker than I did, but it was very freeing to finally admit that I do not like these people. Even if they rushed to welcome me with open arms, it is too late. I have "grown", all right. I have grown impatient with rudeness. I have grown away from gossip, and bragging."

That's exactly it. My relationship with other LDS women was very petty when I was LDS too. We spent most of our time gossiping about other people in the ward and trying to out-righteous each other. It was insane, and I don't want to participate anymore. It reminds me of shit I used to do in Junior High. I don't feel like I have the right to critique her behavior, because I did it myself not more than a year or two ago.

However, she and my other former friends have all convinced themselves that there is honestly nothing deplorable about the way they speak and behave. When I gently bring up their behavior they aren't offended, because they honestly don't have a frigging clue what i'm talking about. The blank looks on their faces only reinforce that they just don't see how any other way than the way they were raised is possible. It's a constant source of frustration for me.

I think the reason I feel guilty about vocalizing these ideas is because 1. I used to be the same way. 2. I do realize that everyone has flaws and if I want "perfect" friends I had better just get used to being alone.

I don't know, I think it's an exmo thing. I feel guilty about things I probably shouldn't feel bad about.

I have tried to explain to some of my closest friends reasons I have chosen to leave the church completely, I think they are smart people and I want to be understood. Some are so closed minded that we haven't hung out since or one said ohh..Well it's just not right for you in this time of your life. I am thinking okay, we will just leave it at that. I evolved and made connections that you cant and won't push your mind to see.

If you haven’t yet, read the “Allegory of the Cave” by Plato. I read that in my World Civ. class that was offered to me by BYU(suckers). That opened my little brain a lot and I referred back to it a lot when I was leaving because I was a truth seeker. I sought the flaws out on my own and wanted to know. It was in my own due time and even after I knew I couldn’t get the strength to leave for a year.

I find that I have very little in common with my Mormon friends and it's been a hard chapter to close. I just put up my first pictures on Face book of me with a drink in my hand. My little brother who is also on the fence about leaving told me not to. I said...why...I don't have a drinking problem and it's all about moderation. I liked the picture so I just don't care and I am not trying to make a huge statement. I just want these morgbots to open their minds a little bit and let them know that this is me…so deal with it. I am actually grateful to fbook for this reason. It gives me a voice and they are probably going on early morning walks ranting about my decisions and how sad it is to see me go. They are the worst gossipers on the planet..They get the award...Mormon women. I feel like they are a different species than their men even.


I never really had a voice growing up so I have been the ultimate observer and over 80 percent I think have little to nothing in common with their husbands. They don't nurture their relationships with their hobbies. It looks absolutely painful to me. Then they have kids to try and better the relationship and guess who suffers....everyone. My mom kept having kids to save her relationship. She even told me that like a year ago...I was thinking...that's sick thinking mom. We don't have big old farms anymore. You don't need 9 kids people. It's almost like they forget about themselves and quit developing themselves on a lot of levels cause they have already learned everything when they were younger and now they spend their time justifying it to themselves and trying to put on their perfect faces with their helpless future morgbots. It’s a sad cycle to me. Some of my nieces and nephews have lost their personalities as they have gotten older-9 and up range. I really hate the Mormon Church.

It's hard to find new solid friends, at least it has been for me. I have trust issues now that I am out, I have like 3 of my Mormon friends that I will talk to or get together with on a semi regular basis. I have grown to be an independent person and have grown to appreciate time spent a lone. I know I will find more dear friends that I can relate to down the road. You said it's been like two years since you have been out. I can relate to you on that because I have been gone for about that long too. We are probably in some of the similar stages. It is usually my friends husbands that throw me negative looks and I feel like their husbands are prompting them to avoid me...be nice but don't hang out with her a lot. Don't listen to her anti-Mormon lies either. Haha..we use to be like that. Makes me laugh sort of, how defensive I use to get and the word anti-mormon would make me shutter. I can honestly say I never looked at it or paid attention to it until after I graduated and saw the real world…vegas..lol and said there is so much more. There are a lot of good people that aren’t Mormon and I could never take a Mormon guy seriously. How could I…deep down I knew something was wrong wrong wrong.

I am an outspoken person now and I don't care to hurt people's feelings. On the other hand, I also don’t have children I need to protect. Good Luck, you are not alone! Keep on keeping on people. This earth is amazing- go on a hike I did that this weekend and I am craving another one-so liberating.

One year you realize they are boring as hell and you have nothing in common. I have trouble relating to family sometimes, too, when all they want to talk about it what's new with their kids and how hard life is with so many kids.

Yeah, I know.