Right now I'm in the middle of formally resigning from the church. I have already confronted my family . My sister like the rest of my family all are involved with church and don't understand why I would do such a horrible thing. She wants to know what would make me do this. She told me that the internet is just full of lies. So I'm asking your guys help, what was some of the most compelling evidence historically or experiences that made you realize the church was just a lie. I'm not trying to convince her but I'd like to give her honest reasons why myself and others would leave.

1) Timing and versions of 1st vision
2) BofA
3) DNA
4) Learning abt upstate NY in 1820s (2nd great awakening)
5) MMM (before, during, and after) + death of PPP
6) Saga of Utah Statehood
7) Spaulding/Rigdon
8) Lack of archeaological evidence for BOM
9) Use of KJV in BOM
10) Masonic influence in Temple ceremonies
11) Temperance movement in America (esp Ohio) vs WoW

Well, I'd be interested in knowing why *you* are leaving? With what did you confront your family? What did you yourself tell your sister?


For me it wasn't at first about uncovering a "lie". I didn't need anything more than my curiosity and some old, musty sets of Mormon writing as it was originally printed. The Journal of Discourses, The History of the Church, the older versions of D&C and the BofM, McConkie's Mormon Doctrine etc. were enough for me to realize that even if 'the church is true', and god is Mormon, I didn't want any part of it nor to obey such a god. I believed in "The Good" and I didn't find it in the founding documents of Mormonism or in Mormon as it is lived today.

Human

An honest individual does not need to point out reasons why the church is not what it claims to be. (That's easy)

One only needs to take the time to consider what it actually means if it's all true, then ask themselves if they would truly be happy spending the rest of eternity wrapped up in a multi-level marketing campaign that ultimately serves to move Elohim up the pyramid of glory & dominion.

But if I were to pick one thing that pushed me over the edge, the one thing that stands out as the reason I turned my back on the church it would be this:

I was taught my whole life that elohim was once a man like me, that we are co-eternal, and that all gods were once men. If this is true, that all gods were once men, that means there was necessarily a time when no gods existed. If that's the case, then the first god became a god without the help of any gods. No plan, no atonement, no savior, no resurrection, no secret handshakes, passwords, or signs.

If that god became a god all on his own then that means I can too, and I won't be required to adhere to the dogmatic rules of a never-ending god-making pyramid scheme.

However, if there was at least one god that was always a god (like most monotheistic faiths believe) then why would I waste my time on a middle-man like Elohim?

I remember as a kid bringing that up in sunday school if we all can become gods who is to say there is one true god above all others or something along those lines. Of course I was shot down and told not to question the doctrine because its absolute truth.

Another that makes me sick is the fact that they have so much history of all the sick things joseph smith did in their own church history and libraries but don't mention a word in their sunday school manuals when they are teaching it to little kids . Those kids growing up believing in a person that was a criminal.

http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm
It is the soup to nuts menu of Mormon deception.

Personally, the BoA and BoM were what did me in. They are clearly made up. If they are bogus, so is Joseph Smith.

LDS Inc's misogyny, homophobia, and willingness to lie to protect their reputation in the Mark Hofmann forgery case are other good reasons to leave.

All I know is, I prayed long and hard and got the answer that was the EXACT opposite to the one I was expecting.

And that was that. I was out.

However, everything I have found out since has confirmed the decision to quit Mormonism.

The thing that put me over the edge was learning that Joseph Smith had an affair with Fanny Alger and hid the fact. I could find nothing legally or doctrinally to justify it, and the rest of the chips fell from there.

That's not to say that this is my biggest reason for believing TSCC is a lie. There are much biggest problems than that, but it's the one that got me. You can't cheat on your wife and cover it up, and stay at that level of communion with God. No matter how much he may or may not have repented in private, my cog dis would not allow it.

Me personally it was the people that drove me crazy. The way they acted and I eventually learned all the misleading history they teach that really pushed me to finally leave that horrible place. I just also am curious to hear other peoples opinions. Thanks for the replies so far!

There's a huge list, but one of the most important things to remember is that the church is less than 200 years old, so it's relatively easy to check the historical record for changes in "everlasting" doctrine, inconsistencies in revelations/history and debunk faith-promoting myths that in other religions may be thousands of years old. Plenty of prime documentation is available (even though I'll bet the church vaults have some reeeeally damning stuff squirreled away).

As a 4th generation eastern mormon, I was thouroughly indoctrinated from birth - but I always had, even as a kid, something that told me something wasn't right.

When I went to the Washington DC temple for my endowments and to be sealed to my wife, it was absolutely one of the worst experiences of my life - the mean (There is no other word) old temple workers, the weird clothes, and the masonic rituals were overwhelming - followed by a trip into the celestial room, where I expected to see the redeemed dead walking, only to find a cheezy hotel lounge and the same grouchy old workers rushing us out so the next group could come in.

It took a while, but that was the real eye opener.

If it were just bunk, I'd probably not have resigned and walked away just claiming that I didn't believe it anymore.

However, what made me angry enough to not only resign but make sure that I kept voicing my disgust were:

The lies about the first vision, the book of abraham, and how Joseph translated the BoM.

I was taught the complete opposite of what actually took place. They lied.

The incredibly deep seated racism of the church. Yes, the priesthood black thing is odd and concerning, but I had no idea of the depths of the racial hatred. A loving god really picks these douchebags to lead his church?

The deep seated mysogyny.

And the deep seated homophobia. I was taught to fear gays and to "hate the sin but love the sinner" which is bullshit for hate them.

Lastly, the truth about polygamy and blood atonement and the danites.

This is a church born on lies, baptized by blood, and perpetuated through greed and hate.

Fuck them.

My leaving started with the BofM itself, where are most of the teachings of the church found in Nephites and Lamanites fighting?

Then I read some of BY teachings in the JofD, made me sick.

Then finding out about JS and his many wives and lying about it.

Not to mention the WofW and how tea is actually good for you!

It just kept going downhill from there.

Its kind of a snowball effect. You find one small detail that leads to another and another ... Until you realize its all a bunch of crap

I do have to add that I found a lot of links to the things I read here on this site. And hearing some of your stories floored me!

So greatful for RfM!

BofA, no evidence for BofM, Kinderhook Plates and Greek Psalter,polygamy and polyandry along with the lies multiple versions of first vision and the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor.

Mormons are taught that there's a great conspiracy against the church, evil men who make up lies in order to destroy God's Kingdom on Earth. This notion is not only false, but is downright looney. I'd say a great many of us here hoped that Mormonism was right. For me, I wanted to believe it so desperately that I spent years of my life in church-approved books trying to convince myself I wasn't wasting my life. It wasn't the so-called "lies" of the internet that destroyed my faith; it was the inconsistencies and falsehoods within the religion.

The Book of Abraham is, perhaps, the mosting glaring and absurd evidence against the scriptures. Joseph's translation of the facsimiles was obviously and embarrassingly wrong. Anyone with any interest in Egyptian history will recognize that they are bastardized versions of typical funerary scrolls. I have personally seen multiple versions with my own eyes in the Museum of Antiquities in Cairo. They have nothing to do with Abraham.

The evidence against the authenticity of the Book of Mormon is overwhelming.

Mormon polygamy was abhorrent. Pick up a copy of In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton. The author is Mormon, and he tries in some ways to apologize for Joseph's perversions, but the the evidence against him is damning.

Nothing you say will carry any real significance with your sister as long as she believes in the great anti-Mormon conspiracy. If you can convince her of the absurdity of that, then you might be able to have a productive conversation. Good luck to you.

Every reason, every fact, can just be thrown out by TBMs as lies or the work of Satan designed to bring down the church, unless they are willing to accept that there is even the SMALLEST chance that the church isn't true.

Ask your family, "If I could prove to you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the church wasn't true, would you want me to?" They'll either say yes because they're reasonable, or they'll say yes because they're so confident they think it's impossible, or they'll say no because "it doesn't matter what you say, the church is true no matter what."

The conversation I had with a friend once to explain my own reasoning for my disaffection with mormonism went something like this (it might be helpful, depending on how open-minded the person you talk to is):

Me: "If a small child asked you to define faith, what would you say?"

Friend: "Faith is something we believe even though we can't prove it. We have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow, even though we don't know the future."

Me: "Okay, so then that child grins and says, 'I get it! I have faith that you're going to buy me a pony!' How do you explain the difference between faith and just plain wishing? Do you think there's a difference?"

Friend: "Yes, of course."

Me: "I do, too. Think of it this way. If a perfect stranger walked up to you on the sidewalk and said you needed to take him to the bank, withdraw $1000 from your account, and give it to him, no questions asked, would you?"

Friend: "Of course not."

Me: "Because that would be crazy. What if your wife asked you? What if she said she needed you to get her cash from your savings account, and that you couldn't ask her why she needed it? Would you?"

Friend: "Yes."

Me: "Why? Why would you do it for your wife and not for a stranger?"

Friend: "Because I trust her. I know her."

Me: "So you have more faith in your wife than you do in a stranger, because you have years of experiences and evidence that she is a trustworthy person, right? Let's look at the rising sun anology you used. The reason we believe the sun will rise even though we don't know the future is because the earth has been rotating for billions of years, and we have no plausible reason to believe that it will stop rotating before tomorrow. So I think the difference between faith and wishing is you have to have a reason to have faith in something. Faith has to be earned. Would you agree?"

Friend: "Yes, that makes sense."

Me: "Okay. So what reason would anybody possibly have to have faith in the church? What reason does the church give people to put their trust in it?"

Friend: "It's not the church itself that gives you a reason. It's the holy ghost. You feel promptings of the spirit confirming to you that it's true."

Me: "Okay, so you get these warm fuzzy feelings? Who told you that those feelings are the holy ghost? Where did you get that idea?"

Friend: "Well, you learn about it in the scriptures, and from the prophets, and from your own experiences."

Me: "Your own experiences? You just decided completely on your own one day, without anyone telling you, that those warm fuzzy feelings were from god?"

Friend: "No, I guess I learned that at church as a kid."

Me: "Right. Well, why do you believe what they tell you at church? What reason do you have to put your faith in the things they teach you?"

Friend: "I pray about it and feel that it's true."

Me: "And who told you that feeling came from god?"

Friend: "..."

After a few more rounds of circling back to the same answers, I challenged my friend to think of one thing, one reason to believe in the church that didn't loop directly back to "because the church said so" and get back to me. He never did.

Nice!

The book of Mormon itself is the best evidence that the church is built on lies. All the anachronisms and outright plagiarisms of the bible, contrived stories and shallow characters, a simplistic worldview. that, and the book of abraham.

It's not about us being able to prove Mormonism is false, it's up to Mormons to prove it's true -- and what they offer as proof is baloney.

Feelings aren't proof, if for no other reason than people in other religions also have feelings their religions are true. "They're mistaken but we're not," is silly reasoning.

The BoM isn't proof because other religions have scriptures of wondrous origins.

Miracles aren't proof because, A) other religions claim miracles and, B) no one can prove the miracles either happened or were actually miraculous.

But go back to the very beginning of Mormonism. JS claimed to see the Father and Son. All we have is his word for it, one young guy, and, as Thomas Paine asked, is it more likely a miracle would happen or someone would tell a lie? And we know there are suckers in the world who will believe the crap someone makes up (see other religions and cults).

So don't get sucked into their trap. None of your evidence will be accepted anyway unless they're ready to listen and consider the possibility they're wrong. So just tell them you don't believe Mormonism is the truth. Besides, if their strong belief is enough to make it true for them, then they should consider your strong DISbelief to be an equal measure. They won't, but they should.

As I grew up in a mormon only enviroment I never totaly believed all the teachings and beliefs. My parents were semi active and let us kids choose our own way. As soon as I graduated from high school and moved out of the area,,I bailed out. Never regreted it,,never looked back. Kinda felt ashamed I ever was a mormon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2011 06:44PM by unworthy.

I can relate, it's really embarrassing to think I followed along with a lot of BS!

someone here posed that question so I asked the ward mission leader and he said he didn't believe all that

and then I thought of those nephites tearing pieces off their uniforms to write liberty and putting it on a spear,

that material was possibly grown and woven ans sewn by hand to a pattern by the women and then they just ripped it

how wasteful, how silly,

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/mmdeg.pdf

This is probably not the most compelling document. It is however the one that set me on my journey. It has nothing to do with Mormonism and that is probably why I was brave enough (at the time) to read it. I wasn't even researching Mormonism when I found this. I was trying to study the history of the Freemasons to better understand where they came from. Reading this is when I first thought to myself, "what the fuck?"

Short Excerpt:

What is that?

The pass-grip of a Master Mason.

Has it a name?

It has.

Will you give it to me?

I did not so receive it; neither will I so impart it.

-----

Why did Joseph think that the endowment was a restoration of Solomon's temple? I can't say I know for a fact, but the fact that King Solomon is a role played in the Mason story may be a factor.

I'm a lifelong Mormon, but never believed any of it - I just went along because it was what I was supposed to do. The weekend it all fell apart I found this site and read and read and read and read...what I found validated everything I had known and felt all along, which was a staggering relief. So, I knew none of it was really true from the start - you can't help but know that because it's all so ridiculous. But, for more solid things that tipped me over the edge -

1. The fact that the vaunted First Vision wasn't at all what it had been portrayed to be. There are 3-4, maybe more, versions of it (something that important would be correct from the start), and he didn't tell the story for many years after it supposedly happened. All wrong.
2. The fact that temples almost certainly re-use names. At first glance this is bothersome, but the more I thought about it the worse it got. Knowing that led to the fact that temple work is, then, clearly busy work. Knowing that then led to realizing that the church is just trying to keep people busy for two reasons - so they don't have time to think for themselves and so they continue to pay ransom...er, tithing money in order to go to the temple to do the worthless and silly ceremonies. It's a vicious circle that can be hard to break free from.
3. Realizing fully the character, i.e. lack of it, of Joseph Smith. The more I learn about this guy the more disgusted I get. Everything he did was a lie, a scam, a cover-up, a manipulation, and a way to further what he personally wanted rather than what was good for other people. The convenient "revelations" about plural marriage, so he could justify sleeping with underage females and other mens' wives, enraged me.
5. The financial situation in the church. This whole every-member-a-janitor issue bugged me from the beginning. This is a multi-billion dollar organization that is now guilting members into cleaning their own buildings in the spirit of "gaining blessings". What's worse is that the church is shafting missionaries by lowering their monthly allowment of money (and it was too low already), forcing them to go on the dole for handouts and meals, and pouring money into the multi-billion dollar (and completely unnecessary) mall in Salt Lake (as well as many other properties, luxury hotels in Hawaii, etc.). It's nauseating and they have no accountability for any of it.

There's more, but you get the idea...

For me it was realizing that the Book of Abraham was a proven fraud. They knew that it was a fraud about 10 years before I was even baptized. I was so angry to realize that.

But it immediately brought into question the validity of the Book of Mormon and it just all came down like a house of cards.

The DNA evidence, lack of archaeological and linguistic evidence clinched it for good.

I stopped going not because I didn't believe in it, but because I had recently switched wards and the people in the new ward weren't friendly at all. I just felt like an outcast, and I definitely didn't fit in during activities. So I guess you could say that I fell into the cliche of "hurt, offended, lost faith..," but it was that and a mixture of other things. I had so many questions and nobody to ask. My friend mentioned to me that Joseph Smith had multiple wives and I was never taught that so I just told her "Oh that's not true. You must have heard that from some false source..."

So I started researching Joseph Smith's polygamy at first. That shocked me and was probably the first thing that really irked me. But I was still believing in the BoM and could deal with just knowing that is true, without the church being true. "The Church is true but the people aren't." I heard that all the time and used it as my motto.

I kept researching in FAVOR of the church, and I tried to "strengthen my testimony" by praying ALL the time. Turned out I didn't get that warm fuzzy because I never had the warm fuzzy capability in me.

After polygamy, came Book of Abraham, anachronisms, the fact that the parts of the bible are inserted in the BoM??, and it all went down hill from there. After I found out who Joseph Smith and Brigham Young really were, I told myself I'd never go back to a church built on lies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2011 08:32PM by fancypants.

The Native Americans are NOT Lamanites, ergo the BoM is false. I simply was not willing to do the ridiculous mental gymnastics necessary to keep believing.

After about the 20th parallel between the masons and mormonism, I decided it was a sham.

Book of Abraham translation. I always wondered what "anti mormon literature" was and why they told us not to read it so one day I googled it and BoA translation was the FIRST thing I found and from there it just snowballed.

THAT was the biggest fail of the Book of Mormon, and ultimately, of Mormonism.

Personal revelation? Didn't happen for me.

It took me until I was about 34 to figure it out it wasn't my fault, though.


But the biggest smoking gun? Book of Abraham.

From as young as six or seven years old Mormonism could never pass any simple logical tests for me. Like...

"Give a dime of your tooth fairy dollar to the Bishop and God will bless you" What was the result???? I got 90 cents. Test Failed.

This one confounded me thirty years before it was explained on South Park. Martin Harris had a wicked wife who stole the first 116 pages of the BOM translation. Now GOD was angry and made the profit Joseph start all over with a different version of the same story. Why couldn't they just translate the same thing from the golden plates again????? Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb...

Now here I am at six or seven years old. And I am excited!!! Running home from primary on a Wednesday evening. (Before the three hour block on Sunday's primary was held on Wednesday's) I proudly announce! " Mom Mom!!" "We had this lesson today in primary and there is fantastic news." "God has come up with this new rule called 'Free Agency'. It means that we all get to choose if we want to go to church or not!" " So I choose to not go to church anymore.".... Again Gods rules don't pass the test... The real rule was I could go to church with or without an ass beating and I was free to choose. That is what Mom (the real person in charge said)

So for me even from the youngest age it was not hard to see that Mormonism could not hold water.

Smith's inability to reproduce the stolen 113 pages of his original translation, the phoney excuse for the same, his attempt to sell the BoM, and application to the Methodist church after the supposed visions. Oh, yeah, the hit on 14 year old girls and women who were married.

after everyone is nearly dead Mormon just whinges and whines while Moroni takes shorthand. surely he could have put people and horses out of their misery or given them some water humph