A relative of mine just got married recently. From the wedding, we learned a lot about her new in-laws. Basically, the father-in-law is adamant that all his children (nearly a dozen) and their spouses and children attend an annual vacation together. The vacation is complete with itinerary and money being distributed by the father TO HIS ADULT CHILDREN. There is not straying from the events that he coordinates and all must attend. He is the type of person that would expect adherence to advice that he doles out to his offspring even if the offspring are in their 50's. WTH?! Worse is the fact that the children and their families agree/go along with this behavior.

Among other stories, this one stood out as the most representative of an LDS priesthood holder feeling entitled to a position of authority, EVEN OVER HIS ADULT CHILDREN AND THEIR FAMILIES!

But I don't know if I have seen this as much outside of Utah as I did within Utah. In your experience, have you seen this? Is this a Utah-mormon thing? Or simply a Mormon thing? Or simply a Utah thing? Or anything else?

Similarly, I always thought it was mind-boggling in church that a 30 year old female with a career was looked down upon and rarely given positions of responsibility. And yet, an 18 year old female newly wed was considered more responsible to hold the position of Relief Society counselor from the mere fact that she was married.

The things within the church that constitutes the right of a person to have authority over another just never ceases to amaze me.

So, the guy pays for the vacation? A certain behavior is expected after the vacation is payed for? Seems fair to me. Its controlling and possessive. If a 50 yr old allows them self to be manipulated like that then they deserve it.

I really don't think it has much to with the priesthood. I wasn't there in the situation though.

I know non LDS folks that go on huge family vacations and meet up in different places.
That's his family, their traditions. I don't know anyone that does that kind of vacation, personally though.
But, most families have traditions around vacations.

This sounds a lot like my own dad, except my dad can't afford to pay for all of us. But, he put crazy pressure on all us grown kids go to his little family fantasy outings (including spending a week together in the mountains, who the hell has the time or inclination for that kind of down time).
He acts like father Lehi, thinking he has some delicious fruit for us to eat that only he can see and only he has tasted. I wouldn't be surprised if this has something to do with the priesthood because my dad is always lording over my TBM family members. He even has the balls to proclaim on most any occasion, "I am your patriarch, and will be for all eternity" (or something like that). I shit you not. That didn't go down too well with the wife, but we're all used to that kind of crazy.

@The Motrix: You seem to describe the exact behavior I am referring to. It is not just a matter of family members cheerfully participating in this man's vacation that he paid for...rather, the point is that he treats his adult children in a way to maintain and exercise authority over their lives. What you describe is exactly what I was referring to.

I "get" that many families participate in family vacations paid for by others. And participating in certain events as a family is not unreasonable. But, for instance, when my non-member friend goes on cruises paid for by her family, they all do their own thing and have meals together. You know, they VACATION together...not, stroke their father's patriarchal-ego by becoming his convention-attendees for a week.

Every family is different, I get that. But there is just something disturbing to me when that level of control over other adults is maintained. It just drips with similarities to a controlling boyfriend.

If you have questions about the dysfunctions of the priesthood on the family, I'm you're guy! LOL. My dad schooled us early and often using real life scenarios of just how messed up the patriarchal order can get.
He loves working in the temple because it implies that the husband becomes the god of the wife, the children and the male child's wife and children (in this life). And because he's a generation older, he'll always have the responsibility and privilege of lording over us, even if we fall away because god won't deprive him of blessings when he's been good.
You might ask, how do I know what he's thinking? He's constantly reminding us! So there you go, that slant is definitely a Mormon thing.

We have a favorite camping area in the national park in Jordan, ID. We get together with as many of us who can make it (my daughter is often unable to get off work for it -- sadly) and with all our friends who can make it and have a blast. 4-wheeling, hiking, huckleberry picking and all.

Of course, there's no itinerary -- it's just "Let's all meet up in Jordan at "THE" campsite on Friday and have fun." :D

Maybe this family just enjoys being together, and the fact that Dad pays for the trip makes it even better. I don't see why this is controlling. Usually when people travel (except camping) they have itineries. (Tuesday Disneyland, Wed the beach, Thurs Universal Studios, etc.)

Family reunions are of Satan. Family Reunions with remuneration for attendance are just plain tacky.

I hate family reunions. Nothing good can come of this.

Ron

Of course, we aren't Mormon. :)

ExMormonRon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Family reunions are of Satan. Family Reunions
> with remuneration for attendance are just plain
> tacky.
>
> I hate family reunions. Nothing good can come of
> this.
>
> Ron

Ditto, Ron!

I never attended family reunions, but my father would always hijack any family get together(easter, thanksgiving, whatever) if he had something on his mind, and we were expected to listen to his sage advice, quietly. I can remember one "fun" after Turkey Day meal convo,(after 9/11) where he compared, at GREAT LENGTH, middle eastern terrorists to the Gadianton robbers of the BOM, and stated if America was going to defeat them, we would have to take a page from the Nephites, and starve them out. He even concluded it with a "this I say in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen", I shit you not! (he was getting up in years)

The priesthood patriarch vacation thing reminds me of the reunion that DW and I put together for my FIL and MIL's anniversary.

I set up the place that was did not belong to my FIL but belonged to my family, yet when the reunion took place my FIL ended up putting himself in charge as patriarch with me being "second priesthood in command" (because it was on my family's property) where he would dictate to me like he was Elohim from the temple movie and I, had to assume the role of Jehova, would then dictate to everyone else. (unfortunately no one was 'going down.')

It was ridiculous and lame. So we would be gathered together as a family and then FIL would tell me that we would be having the prayer and that I should select who was having the prayer, then I would select who would give the prayer, and then we would have the prayer.

With most of the rest of the family being TBM, everyone else thought this was perfectly normal.

I'm sure this happens to plenty of outside-the-Morridor families, but brings up an interesting cog' diss' thought about TBM's--if a father thinks he'll be in charge over his family for eternity, does he not think that his own father will try to dominate him for eternity, and that his sons/sons-in-law will too busy bossing their families around to pay attention to him??
Whatever the hereafter brings, it'll be shock to the LDS.

I think it's just a controlling thingy.

About five years ago, I went out to Arizona for a little family vacay. I met my nevermo sister, her 2nd husband, and her two kids, and my nevermo mom and her BFF. No mormons were on this trip! They flew out from Ohio; I flew out from Florida.

We were there for my neice's gymnastics meet. We stayed a few extra days to go up to the Grand Canyon because none of us knew if we'd ever have the chance to see the GC ever again and if you're that close... might as well spend an extra couple days checking out one of the great wonders of this country, right?

So the last day of the meet was a Saturday. We were done by 4 p.m. and had the rest of Saturday and all of Sunday to explore the GC. Monday everyone was flying back home. Well. It happened to also be Superbowl Sunday. I do not care one whit about football, the Superbowl, nor my BIL's beloved Pittsburgh Steelers. (I am a Cleveland Browns fan.) My sister sent me an email the week before we all left, TELLING me that, after the meet, we were ALL going to hang around the hotel to watch the game.

I have a DVR, don't care that much about the Superbowl, and was only a few hours away from the GC. I saw no reason to sit there in some crappy hotel room eating crappy junk food watching some stupid football game. Not when the GC was a fairly short drive away and I could have that many more hours exploring.

I told my sister that I wanted nothing to do with the football game and that I would take mom and her friend up to the GC. I suggested that my sister and her family meet us up there on Sunday afternoon. She was very upset. She wanted us to all do the same thing. Her husband was all about the game and did not care about anyone else's needs or desires. They wanted to control the choices for the rest of us. She was very mad at me for not rolling over and letting her and her DH dictate my vacation agenda.

Now, our dad is a TBM, but one thing I adore and respect about him, to the core, is that he will NOT allow himself to be led along like a sheep if he is not buying in 100% himself. Same guy told me to not marry before age 25 so I'd have time to figure out who I am and what I want in life before the responsibilities of marriage and children. Pretty good advice for a brainwashed mormon, eh? I've seen my dad walk away from what "the crowd" is doing, take some heat for it, and go do his own thing. So I was fully prepared to take the heat for not going along with the Superbowl Agenda.

There was some tension at first when we all met up at the airport, but it went away after my sister realized that I wasn't going to try to control what they did and I wasn't mad or upset or anything. I just wasn't going to be told what to do by her controlling husband. (You let your man control you, if you want to, but he ain't going to tell me what to do!)

We all got along just fine and everyone got over it before the first meal was finished. We were all adults (mostly -- the kids were teenagers) and everyone quickly became respectful that we each had different ideas about what would be fun. In the spirit of compromise, my DS and BIL offered to go to a museum with me because they know I'm into art. They'd have been bored out of their skulls, but they were trying to find something that would be especially enjoyable to ME, but which we could all do together. For the most part, we all sort of stuck together and I blew off the museum suggestion because my nephew wanted to go see or do something and that seemed like it would be a little bit more enjoyable for everyone.

Adults compromise. Controllers do not.

Beloved and I frequent that establishment. I particularly enjoy the bar at Bright Angel. We're also huge football fans. Should you find yourself in that situation again, let me suggest that you all go to the Grand Canyon and leave those who wish to watch the game at the Bright Angel bar while the rest go exploring.

That would be cool!

Timothy

Did I mention that we were in Phoenix? There were dozens of places within a ten-minute drive (and we had two rental cars) where my BIL could have made the proposition more appealing to me. I might have been willing to hang and watch if the plan was to sit in some nice bar, eating nice food, watching people. I could have gotten hammered and entertained myself watching the Steelers fans.

But no. He wanted to sit in a Motel 6 room and eat Cheetos and drink diet Coke. Didn't even buy beers.

Meh. I can do that at home. I have a rule about doing stuff on vacation that I could do at home: why do it? Why go on vacation if I'm just going to do the same old thing over and over that I always do? That's not a vacation, that's just a change in venue.

I remember those days of not having to do any higher callings because I was a successful single woman who owned (didn't even have a mortgage cause I was able to pay it down early) her own home and had a life outside TSCC. Being looked down upon had definate advantages. Except for the occasional talk, I was free from all that responsibility and I loved having my own life on weekends. For the same reason, I had no interest in holding the priesthood. I was more than happy to let the poor guy down the street with 12 kids and little income knock himself out to please TSCC. If my example of freedom and happiness wasn't enough to make him think twice about the religion he was letting run his life then so be it. Without any statistics to back me up I'll just say I've seen highly authoritarian behavior in other families, in other places, and in other religions but there probably is a bit more of it in Utah/Mormon enclave.

Had TSCC put more demands on me, I probably would have left sooner. lol

THis is the kind of life-control I escaped when I divorced.

I became a very different person.

I started to grow up in my 40's.

My bishop FIL is a control freak-- I don't know if it's a Utah thing or a Mormon thing or some of both or neither. What I do know is that we live far away to avoid the drama that comes with being part of his family.

I know a Mormon family from Wisconsin. The family does everything one way. If they diet they all go on the same diet. If they buy a water purifier they all must buy it. At christmas they all go to Disney World. It does not matter if you have small children and live across the country you are to be there. The father will give you money to do so, but you have no say on how you spend your holidays.

Some families are run like a cult.

It must be a mormon thing. We do not live in Utah and my wife's family does the same thing. They are not jerks about it however. They just think it is fun for us all to be together. It is a little annoying to have everything planned, but we have had some great trips from it though. Hawaii, Alaska, Disney World, San Diego..... And I do have to say that when I'm not paying a dime for it, I really don't have a problem with doing the things that my wife's parents plan. Sometimes, I even get to help make the agenda. They're generous people just trying to be nice to their family, so I'm pretty happy to just do whatever they would like. But I have heard of other Mormon families doing this too.