I just linked this video in Dina's thread about warning her neighbor, but I actually think it might be a good one to share with everyone here. http://www.youtube.com/user/LithodidMan#p/u/71/ZP_rdoPbRRI

This guy, Lithodid Man, lives in Alaska and was recently accosted by his neighbor who is an evangelical Christian. Lithodid Man is an atheist, but apparently grew up a Christian. The neighbor used a lot of "sales" techniques that I thought some exMormons would recognize. Be advised that there's swearing, but this guy really demonstrates what it's like to be on the receiving end of proselytizing.

There was a great Nightline episode that described evangelical ministers who are becoming atheists because they're reading.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/atheist-ministers-leading-faithful/story?id=12004359

You might enjoy this. I know I did.

Interesting article. I feel kind of bad for those men... and perhaps those who go to their churches. Seems so pointless for them to have to practice a profession that should mean so much to them, yet doesn't.

In any case, Lithodid Man references Gavin de Becker's book, "The Gift of Fear" and how the manipulation techniques de Becker writes about can be applied to proselytizers. De Becker is a guy who specializes in predicting crime and that's what "The Gift of Fear" is about, but I think the people who manipulate people into dangerous situations use a lot of the same techniques that missionaries do.

Same here.

Do you seriously consider this 'being accosted'? Have we all gone mad here? Has no one any spine anymore? Does no one have a concept of a free exchange of ideas? I personally felt accosted by Lithoman's sewer mouth.

Outofutah

Actually, yes, when some stranger approaches me not because they want to get to know me, but because they are hoping to manipulate me into changing my religious beliefs (or have some other equally distasteful agenda), I do equate that to being "accosted". It has nothing to do with my not being in favor of a "free exchange of ideas".

As for Lithodid Man's swearing, I did post a warning that he used foul language in his video. I think he was more than patient with his neighbor who, by the way, was on Lithodid Man's private property, uninvited, trying to force his religious beliefs on him. Then, when Lithodid Man politely told his neighbor he wasn't interested in his religion, the guy tried to co-opt Lithodid Man's kids. He did this even after Lithodid Man had politely and explicitly asked his neighbor not to talk to his kids about religion! In that situation, I certainly don't blame him for swearing!

I guess I can at least commend the neighbor for asking Lithodid Man's permission to talk to the kids rather than just taking it upon himself to harass the kids about their religious beliefs or lack thereof.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2010 08:00PM by knotheadusc.

Indeed... check dictionary.com and you'll see that the number one definition of the word accost is "to confront boldly". I think what happened to Lithodid Man fits that definition nicely.

I can't imagine what sort of world you people live in where you can't discuss with others / give others answers as to why you don't believe the way they do or don't want to discuss it. If this is the worst this man is "accosted" in his life then he should surely be thankful.

Wimps.

out

Lithodid Man DID politely say "no thank you", several times, in fact. And the guy who was pestering Lithodid Man, on his private property no less, would NOT take no for an answer. How many times should he have had to say NO before the uninvited neighbor got the message and backed off?

I'm certain this wasn't the first, only, or worst time Lithodid Man has ever been accosted, particularly about religion. In fact, he's made a number of thoughtful videos and never shrinks away from discussion with others about difficult topics. Perhaps if he felt the neighbor would have been receptive to hearing his thoughts on atheism, Lithodid Man would have been open to discussing it. According to the video, the neighbor was apparently only interested in bearing his testimony of Christianity, not in having an actual discussion where both parties are equally welcome to share their thoughts. Given that the neighbor intruded on Lithodid Man's property, I think he was more than fair and polite to him.

What's the matter? Is this topic hitting too close to home for you? Is that why you're resorting to name calling?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 10:38AM by knotheadusc.

What this guy couldn't walk away? I'm sure his neighbor would have gotten the message at some point.

He said no over and over and over again.

The neighbor was in his driveway and did not get the message. Plus he wanted to preach to his children with the expicit instructions from the parents that it was NOT ok.

"Wimps"

Your reply is making me laugh. I did not personally, directly call anyone a wimp; but stated my opinion of people standing up for what they believe in and used the term rather rhetorically;you consider that name calling?

My, where did you grow up.... Utah?

Toughen up.

Yes, I said that.

outofutah,

You and I are obviously in total disagreement about appropriate behavior. I, for one, think it's very inappropriate for a person to come on someone else's property uninvited and start proselytizing, particularly when they have made it abundantly clear that they are NOT INTERESTED in the message.

"Wimps."

I cut and pasted that from your reply, and yes, I consider that name calling. LithodidMan did not go looking for a fight. He was on his own property, minding his own business, and certainly not looking to debate religion when the neighbor showed up with his religious agenda. LithodidMan is not a wimp for wanting to peacefully enjoy his own property and free time without being "accosted" by perfect strangers wanting to chat about religion.

You referred to LithodidMan (and everyone else who doesn't respond the way you apparently believe they should) as a wimp. Moreover, I wonder how you would react if someone came on your turf and started trying to force you to listen to a message you were not interested in hearing. I don't know you well enough to guess what that would be, but I can think of any number of offensive scenarios that could come up...

I do, in fact, wonder if maybe you relate too much to the tacky neighbor and feel that it's okay to intrude on a private citizen's personal space so that you can inflict your viewpoints on them? It would be one thing if the neighbor had given LithodidMan the chance to offer his opinions... shoot, I would have admired the neighbor if LithodidMan were invited to speak to the neighbor's kids about atheism. But that didn't happen, did it?

And... for the record, I am a nevermo who grew up in Virginia. I wonder... did you even watch and give serious thought to the video? Or are you just wanting to stir up a debate with ad hominem attacks? By the way... how come you never respond to the questions put to you? Why do you deflect arguments by being insulting and condescending?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 10:01PM by knotheadusc.

And I have been harassed by a neighbor as well, an atheist actually and when it became over-the-top we got a restraining order against her.

Fixed that problem.


Are you friends with this man who posted the video? Goodness please don't tell him some anonymous person on a message board called him a "wimp." I wouldn't want to damage his psyche!

No, I don't know LithodidMan personally. I just like some of his videos. As for LithodidMan's "potty mouth", most of the swearing (which I did warn you about in my initial post) occurs at the end of the video. So if you only watched a portion of the video and were offended by his "potty mouth", you must have skipped over a significant part. He doesn't utter the first swear word until a full seven minutes into the ten minute video. Up until that point, he's describing Gavin De Becker's theories and relating the story of meeting his pushy neighbor.

I posted about this mainly because I thought LithodidMan made a good point about how people use manipulation and sales techniques to push an agenda. He discusses this at the beginning of his video, which apparently you didn't watch. Incidentally, you seem to be employing some of those very same techniques in your posts.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 12:38PM by knotheadusc.

There are nutcases of all kinds. That this man claimed to be a Christian was irrelevant so why was the poster seeking to bash those who are Christians by lumping them altogether with one guy behaving badly?


Which question(s) would you like me to answer? (I'll be gone from the board for a while so you might have to wait for a reply.)

out

outofutah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so why was the poster seeking to bash those who are
> Christians by lumping them altogether with one guy
> behaving badly?
>

I find this an interesting question since a couple of posts back, you asked this...

"My, where did you grow up.... Utah?"

Based on that remark, I'm guessing that you're lumping all Utahns together. And I can't think of any reason why you would ask a question like this unless it was your intention to bash Mormons. Otherwise, what difference would it make where I grew up?

You asked a question and all I did was copy and paste the answer. I said NOTHING else. Stop making baseless ASSumptions.

We all know the saying...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 07:06AM by Tiff.

outofutah...

It was HIS PROPERTY. Why should LithodidMan have to be the one to walk away when he was approached by an uninvited intruder? He was minding his own business, working on his wife's car, not hanging out on a public street.

Would you like it if you had to deal with strangers attacking your beliefs in your own home?

JW's (and formerly Mormons) canvass our neighborhood on a regular basis. I don't believe as they do but I am happy to speak with them.

As for nutty neighbors who won't take "no" for an answer, I've had that experience as well. One neighbor, an atheist, wouldn't leave us alone; finally a restraining order (or two) did the trick. I don't think her atheism had much to do with it although had she been a bit more intelligent she would have known her behaviour was out of line.

There are inconsiderate folk of all types; using this as an excuse to bash someone's beliefs is rude.

out

I happen to be a Christian myself. I don't bash Christians in general and haven't done so in this thread. I support everyone's right to their personal beliefs.

What I don't support is people who show up uninvited on other peoples' property to push their beliefs when they have been explicitly told their message isn't welcome. I am especially non-supportive when an uninvited intruder tries to sell their agenda to innocent children when they have been explicitly told that their message isn't welcome. I don't think that one should have to get a restraining order to get other people to leave them alone... whether they are evangelical Christians, Mormons, JWs or atheists.

In any case, I think I've more than made my point. If it's not clear to you by now, it never will be. Perhaps it's time to agree to disagree.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 02:21PM by knotheadusc.

Given that we agree that being rude and pushy is not acceptable, nor is trespassing on someone's property.

Under what conditions do you beleive it acceptable to share your faith with others?

I think we've beaten this dead horse long enough.

I grew up a Mormon among evangelical Christians, and I have seen the worst (and the best) of both worlds. From my perspective, they are more similar than different.

Outofutah.

Fundies can really get on your nerves but they can provide humor also:

http://seehere.blogspot.com/2005/12/redneck-pictures.html