Why is it that only lawyers, MBAs, and doctors get to be called as church general authorities? What about the host of worthy, humble, dedicated members who aren't rich and 'successful?'

Case in point is my father in law. You will not meet a more decent man. No one is more devoted to the church. He is always ready and willing to help out with anything, no questions asked, whether it be teaming with missionaries, giving a blessing, or whatever. Never complains, just helps because he believes it it right. His motives are pure.

What I wonder is, why is a man like this not elevated to church leadership positions? Rather, he is perpetually called and re-called as ward missionary or high priest group leader, nice little worker bee callings.

My question is rhetorical, for I think I know why he is not called up....he is blue collar. Works at the factory, doesn't make a lot of money. A guy like him wouldn't 'impress' people with his position if he was a GA. And it makes me angry, ANGRY, that a man can devote himself to doing good, and give everything for the church, but if he is not a white collar professional, well, he hasn't a prayer of ever holding high office, he will forever be an underling, overworked and underappreciated.

By the way, I love it when GAs tell us that it is not the position we hold that matters. Love how the ones IN POSITION are telling us that position doesn't matter. LOL

He is good, kind, and honest. He will never go anywhere in the mormon church.

That has always really bothered me. And the fact that so many of them are related. It seems like that would be another sign of a cult,but I don't remember. And what about bishops and stake prez? Most all the one's I have known have definitly been upper class. And at least 1/2 of them have been crappy at their jobs. Very egotistical and self-righteous.

Was not. He was a gold digger and treasure hunter. His father owned the farm. We all bought it.

i feel sorry for your FIL wonderer =( and yes it is sad that the really good people never get higher up... it is the exact same here in norway, the stake presidents i have known have always been millionaires.

There is a disease called the STP in wards. The Same Ten People. These same ten people are the only people who do everything no one else wants to do in a ward. These are the ones who will take any crap assignment, calling, last moment anything, etc. They do it all and most don't complain about it publicly, but may do so privately. These people become too important to promote because then nothing would get done by worker bee types if you promote those awesome worker bee types out of those roles.

The STP's are the true Saints - they fit your FIL's description to a tee.

He's the kind that they stick with tough assignments but never promote upward. He'll do the job, so they give him the job.

In the past (long past, now) GA's included normal people, pedagogues and such. But that's when it was a church. Now it is a major corporation, and they need MBA's, lawyers, and former CEO's. It's another case where modern "revelation" trumps even Jesus' teachings about lawyers.

And have you ever been in a military stake? I've been in a dozen or more. That's where you really get to see the galling side of Mormon leadership, since being a commissioned officer is a tacit requirement to be a Mormon leader in the military environment.

Isn't it wonderful, isn't it marvellous!

Briggy

It's run like a corporation/s because it is. The qualifications to be in top leadership in the LDS Church has changed over the years as the church is run more and more like a business.

I know of a couple of LDS guys that specifically went into fields that would assure them some kind of leadership positions in the LDS Church because they didn't want to be in the 10% that do 100% of the local work/jobs.

This exactly.

If it was actually a church you would see more diversity in the leadership. But it's a "church themed" multi billion dollar corporation. And to run a successful corporation you want successful business men and lawyers leading. It's all about the modern day PROFIT.

It's very sad to hear when LD$ Inc. exploits good people like your FIL. Makes me sick.

Some years ago, BKP spoke of the humble rank and file, the little people of the church, and how the GAs would stand to one side to allow these folks to enter heaven before them. Hell, who says the damn GAs are going to heaven in the first place.

I have spent many hours trying to find documentation of that statement, but have failed.

BKP was trying to speak highly of the humble, but instead insulted, and just showed how arrogant he is.

Kinda funny, when you think about it.
"No, you first!"
"Nooo, YOU first!"
"No, I insist!"
Then Peter (or Nephi, or Joseph Smith, or whoever the hell stands at the Mormon version of the Gates) says, "Hey! You two! You're holding up the damn line! One of you get moving or go to the rear!"

I've seen that as well, as the bishop was a doctor, and at least one counselor was a lawyer. The person they claim their corporation/church is named for would never become a GA or the CEO/prophet because he was a carpenter.

Members who are doctors, lawyers, and successful businessmen are more worthy than blue-collar workers, dontcha know. That’s why the lord has blessed them with such success. Blue collar workers, in contrast, are less worthy and/or have less faith; so they are blessed less.

--At least, this is the self-serving attitude of Mormon royalty and most others who have risen through the ranks.

My father-in-law died several years ago but was the most devout Mormon I've ever known. He and my mother-in-law had 10 children with 8 surviving to adulthood. With him it was always the church. Humble, loyal and always out cutting firewood for the widows in the ward (unlike Monson who _______ with the widows).

His problem is that he worked in a lumber mill and dug graves to support his children. He also worked other odd jobs.

He never had an "important" calling either.

Mormonism was, is and shall be all about money and status.

It is not just blue collar. My uncle was a "heathen" until he was age 50. He had gone from NOTHING (he had no college degree whatsoever, started as a mechanic). He had become a millionare. He had achieved in the business world--I guess he decided to take on the church. He became a SP within 20 years. It was VERY OBVIOUS to me at his funeral how he had "manipulated" the system in the LDS church to rise in the ranks.

While he was a bishop, my boss was his 1st councilor--a Ph.D. chemist. Wonderful man. I worked with some really wonderful mormon men. NOT ONE OF THEM ever got beyond a bishop (even if they got there). They were all very well educated. I could never figure out why my uncle was the bishop and my boss was the councilor until I left the church.

My boss was a caring wonderful man. My uncle was not.

You answered your own question. Corporations (LDS, INC) are not looking for leaders who have good pure qualities. They look for "yes" men and unethical salespeople, MBA's who will have no problem with a hostile takeover or firing a janitor who has worked for a company for 30 years. Kindheartedness is a big negative for anyone in an upperdivision church job. Kindness is just something blabbed about in General conference but never really practice.

It is pretty telling that BYU puts a big emphasis on their law school and MBA program.

This is an interesting comment. I went to BYU law school. I transferred in my second year after doing my first law school year at an out-of-Utah state institution. My first and lasting impression of BYU law school was how the administration pushed the Morg students into high-paying, prestigious "Wall Street" type jobs, and really looked down on us students who had a desire to enter public service oriented jobs (such as public defense, disability law, etc.). The goal was clearly to improve the prestige and visibility of the law school. This was in sharp contrast to the ethos at my previous, state-run school that constantly urged me and my fellow students to eschew worldly comforts and high incomes and instead serve the public interests and the less fortunate. The Lord's university, indeed!

Interesting. Thanks!

I've always thought the same thing. My dad is the most kind, sensitive and humble man I have EVER known. He is intelligent and compassionate. He is incredibly dedicated to the church and will do whatever he is asked. Since the time I can remember (probably the last 30 years or so), in my home ward, he has served in the bishopric, been ward clerk and/or secretary, or served as the clerk/secretary to the Stake Presidency (I think he was in the High Counsel for a little bit once). He has always been good enough to advise them or do their administrative work, but has apparently NEVER been seen as "good enough" to be the actual bishop. They've put in several very young guys, a few really weird guys, a couple very unfriendly guys, etc. But not my dad. He just does the heavy lifting for them. And NEVER complains. It used to make me so angry. But now I'm glad. I would hate to have him be forced to ask all the freaky interview questions bishops are forced to ask, or shell out discipline to some poor person that doesn't deserve it. I don't know that he could do it. So I'm glad now, except that it probably makes him feel bad and that he is "less than" in their eyes.

ETA: Oh yeah - he's an insurance agent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2010 04:33PM by Snow.

I used to think they looked for people with financial security so that being in such a demanding calling didn't threaten their ability to make a living. It also makes it less obvious how much the church exploits its lay clergy in not paying them if the bishops/stake presidents are financially okay. Ironically, they rise up through the ranks and become GA's where they are paid extremely well, like corporate officers.

I guess the narcissism of Mormonism explains it yet again. The appearance of success and perfection in the eyes of the world, the grandiosity, is at the heart of Mormonism.

It began with Joseph Smith, who may have started out as the son of a farmer, but he himself always sought to exalt himself. He faked intellectual accomplishments, special gifts, faked a revelation in D&C where the Lord says 'My servant Joseph should not labor [work]" but should live off the tithes of the people, professed himself a king, wanted to run for president, looked for men with money to be in his inner circle and give their money to him, it goes on and on.... The church follows his pattern.

Christina said what I was going to say.

Self-promotion is something humble men don't do. Narcissists are best at this.

My brother and his family sponged off my parents his whole life, and hasn't had a job in the last 20 years, and he is a bishop. He does have inherited money, and--most importantly--is related to a GA. He did to to an Ivy League university. His showy wife has the permanent calling of chorister. He is a master at "hype", and dresses nice, drives a fancy car, lives in my parents' huge house, and throws his weight around like he is the most important man in the city. I see him going far in Mormonism (as long as the money holds out).

He will never be a GA, though, because of a lack of a useful occupation.

Funny, that none of these men have a degree in theology, philosophy, psychology, sociology, political science, history, or social work. Even professors of pholosophy and reilgion at BYU don't have those qualifying degrees.

I don't think BKP has a high-level degree. He owned a used car dealership.

pure and simple--and nepotism.

Mid-level civil servants, too.

Those conventions don't hold tru in all parts of the church.

Son of the former prophet.

Rich.
Smarmy.
Self-serving.
Spokesmen/spokeswomen.
Not genuine.

Be thankful your dad isn't a GA or what not.

I keep thinking that if my dad moves up too high on the ladder that could represent a serious breach in our relationship. He's in the bishop-prick now, which means that he has to do those silly interviews and tithing settlement. That's bad enough. But he also does some good stuff for his neighbors as part of his...er...service.

If he ever becomes a Stake or Mission Preisdent, I think I'll feel more compelled to put my foot down and be more forceful about what he's doing, and why I think it's wrong.

I know that it's frustrating seeing them grovel to these fraudulent scheissters, but I don't think a genuine person is cut out to run with the Monson-Packer gang.

Didn't you know that success and material gain (money) is a sign that God has blessed you? And didn't you know that when you are blessed in this manner, that it justifies your belief and faith and testimony and qualifies you to be the person that all of your neighbors should look up to with adoration? Don't ever criticize a church leader! His money and success shall be a sign unto you that God has chosen him.

I understand why some of you feel your loved ones have been cheated out of a prestigious position. But look at it another way- they saved themselves from people on boards such as this railing on them as nondeserving, arrogant, etc. Anybody who doesn't make it to the top in Mormonism is more respectable than one who does.

Well, unless you are a dairy farmer. :)