I came up with MY definition of a Christian reading Steve Benson's thread about a TBM lurker getting schooled by Benson.


Here's (my) definition of Christianity....

Take Jesus in what many believe he was:
A teacher.
Single-never married.
Not rich, robe wearing/sandal wearing nomadic traveller.

Now take the the various mainstream Christian faiths and ask yourself this:

Would the (X_denomination) Church accept Jesus into it's church and ALL its religious activities?

Catholic- Yes.
Lutheran- Yes
Protestant- Yes
Episcopalian- Yes

Mormon- No, they would not.

So this being my definition, mormons are not Christians...regardless of the fact that they've hijacked Jesus' name in their church title.

Everyone is going to define what it means to be a good Christian their own way, although there are some agreed upon bullet points.

However, if the radical Jewish preacher in the bible, the one that taught against Jewish legalistic practices and for love and tolerance, the one who had women friends and didn't immediately condemn sinners and pissed off the "suits" of his era - if he isn't accepted at your church then your church has a lot of nerve calling itself Christian.

Mormons believe in the letter of the law - Jesus taught love and tolerance

Mormons believed in appearances - Jesus taught God sees the heart

Mormons judge others as worthy/unworthy to enter their temples and participate in their community - Jesus said "Love Everyone".

Even if Jesus showed up clean shaven in a Mr. Mac suit, his attitude would cause problems right off the bat in Mormonism. And you know that's true.

Come on CAgirl, no one is a more contradictory character than jesus of nazareth. He condemned the law that HE created, yet he obeyed every single rule.


<<<Mormons believe in the letter of the law - Jesus taught love and tolerance>>>

He also created the law, and he himself lived it fully to a T. Kolobians believe that salvation is a free gift but exaltation must be earned because no one can wave a magic wand and make you perfect. You have to choose to make the right decisions. They don't believe that if you don't accept jesus that you will go to hell, which most christians believe. The old chestnut about kolobians following the letter of the law will never convince a kolobian that they aren't christian because it only pertains to exaltation, not salvation which is free for everyone.


<<<Mormons believed in appearances - Jesus taught God sees the heart>>>

When I was a kolobian I couldn't care less about appearances.



<<<Mormons judge others as worthy/unworthy to enter their temples and participate in their community - Jesus said "Love Everyone".>>>

This is no different than Jesus judging people worthy/unworthy to enter his kingdom. Jesus said "love everyone" but he also sends people to hell for not following him. Excluding people based on their actions is very christ-like.



<<<Even if Jesus showed up clean shaven in a Mr. Mac suit, his attitude would cause problems right off the bat in Mormonism. And you know that's true.>>>

This is true for any church with paid clergy, as well.

Saved by Grace?
Saved by works?
Bit o' both??

Jesus: Son of God?
God himself?
Person? Deity?

*How* much of a person was he?
How much of a deity?

Holy Trinity: Yes or No.

Most important (at least it seems like to me): WHO'S DA BOSS??????????????????????

Yeesh!

Glad (again) to be a dog.

Yer Pal,
Reggie, The StalkerDog™

LIVES the Golden Rule, parable of Good Samaritan

all else is Pure Hornswaggle



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 04:33PM by guynoirprivateeye.

What about "take no thought for the morrow?"

or

"sell all that thou hast and give it to the poor"

or

"judge not"

or

"turn the other cheek"



Is that all horswaggle, too?

So, if I like to be kicked in the balls, does that mean I should kick you in the balls too?

I love the golden rule!

The simplest definitions are usually the best ones.

CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.

Actually, there are a number of areas where Mormon and non-Mormon Christians agree about Jesus. I am neither Mormon nor Christian, but, based on my understanding of Mormonism and of more traditional Christian doctrine, I suggest that these are some of those areas, and one could certainly argue that anyone with these beliefs could be labeled "Christian":

* Jesus is divine and part of the Godhead.
* He is the Messiah promised in the Old Testament.
* The world was created by him.
* He is the "Only Begotten Son" of God.
* He died to atone for the sins of mankind.
* He was prepared from the beginning of the world for his mission of atonement.
* He was bodily resurrected from the dead.
* By his resurrection he conquered death so that all mankind will be resurrected.
* He was perfect and sinless.
* He founded the true church.
* Only believers in him will be saved.
* He will someday return to earth and usher in a period of peace lasting a thousand years, during which he will rule as king.

The following Mormon teachings differ sharply from the doctrine of many traditional Christian denominations, and are probably the basis for the frequent Christian assertion that "Mormons are not Christian":

* Jesus is a separate person from God the Father.
* Jesus is a literal child of God the Father, both spiritually and physically.
* Since we are all spirit children of God the Father, in that sense Jesus is our spirit brother.
* Jesus was married (early Mormon prophets also taught that he was a polygamist).
* Christ's atonement is not effective for certain very grievous sins (this doctrine of "blood atonement" is not mentioned much by modern Mormons)
* The moment of Christ's atonement was as he prayed in Gethsemane, not his death on the cross.
* One should not "worship" Jesus or pray to him, but only to God the Father, in Jesus' name.
* One should not try to develop a "personal relationship" with Christ.
* To be saved, one must not only believe in Christ, but must "obey his commandments" (that is, "works" are as important as "grace")

It is an ironic fact of Mormon history that when I was growing up Mormon in the 1940s, we Mormons were quite proud of the fact that we weren't "Christian," but rather "Mormon." At that time we Mormons understood that to be Christian was to subscribe to all the false doctrines of the Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, and other false churches. It is only in the last few decades that the Mormon church has changed its attitude, and now wants desperately to be considered among the "Christian" churches, probably because they consider that by accepting the label "Christian" they will not appear so unusual in the eyes of unaware prospective converts, who only find out later that the Mormons have quite different definitions of "Christian," "God," and hundreds of other terms used by traditional denominations.

(For a more extended discussion, see "Are Mormons Christian?" at http://packham.n4m.org/lds-xian.htm

Here is the BIBLICAL definition of a Christian:

- They hold all things in common ownership (Acts 2:44-45).
- They do not sin (1 John 3:6-9).
- They can drink poison without harm (Mark 16:18).
- They do not strike back if you strike them (Matt 5:39).
- If you ask to borrow anything from them, you do not have to return it (Luke 6:30).
- They never have to hire movers or earthmoving equipment, or use UPS; they can literally move anything by the power of God (Matt 17:20, 21:21, Mark 11:23).
- They have no retirement plans, savings account, or food supplies stored away (Matt 6:25-34).
- And no possessions (Matt 19:16-21, Mark 16:21, Luke 18:22).
- They never pray in public (Matt 6:5-8).
- They are like sheep or children (Matt 19:14, 18:3-4, Mark 10:15, John 10:2-27, Heb 13:20).
- They do not go to a doctor when ill, but heal each other with prayer (James 5:13-15, Mark 16:18).
- Their children are not rebellious; they kill them if they are (Matt 15:3-9).
- They do not die (John 8:51, 11:25-26).

There are no christians.

I work with lots of 'Christians'. Ain't no chance of a snowflake in hell that they'd allow your nomadic jesus described above into their lives nor into their churches.

Bigoted, racist, misogynistic, ideological, anti-intellectual, paranoid, homophobic, without compassion, prurient, pious, judgmental, mingy, rude. All characteristics that the new testament would despise (methinks), and yet they seem to be personality characteristics of lots and lots and LOTS of mainstream Christians.

Mormons aren't Christians? Exactly. But today's Christians aren't Christians either. So what's your point.

I love that....simple and clear and TRUE!!!

There are too many definitions and I am not going to argue with someone who claims he is a Christian. I'll take him at his word even if I don't care for his definition.If Jesus is who Christians claim he is, he can sort it out. If not , we are fighting over something that doesn't really matter. I guess I don't care enough to fight someone over definitions although I do have some opinions. However, they are just opinions and no more valid than others