(I've previously posted as TDG and my GF has posted as em928 if you want more background than this.)

So short story I am 20 years old and in college. I formally left the church this past year and told my family I wanted nothing to do with the church my freshman year ( I am a junior now). The past few years have been pretty bad with my family they say they still want to be part of my life yet wont accept who I am and still talk about the church. I met my girlfriend in high school around the same time I told them I wanted nothing to do with the church. So they assume she is the reason for me leaving and have been very nasty to her and her family. I do not put up with it so I have very little contact with them except an occasional email. My girlfriend's family allowed me to stay with them during the summers when I had nowhere to stay when school terms were over, and have been so supportive of helping me get through college while my “family” wanted me on a mission. I am still with my girlfriend and we have wonderful relationship but I do not want them to hurt her or her family in any way. Almost everyone in my family on both sides are TBM and half of them are the “wonderful” Utah breed of Mormons. I received a email yesterday with my parents inviting me to come over to their house to visit because my grandparents are in town. The catch is that my grandfather was a GA for I think nine years or something so they think he has this almighty power and might be able to bring me back into their cult. My question for anyone reading this is if you could talk to a GA or former GA what would ask or tell them?

I assume your girlfriend is nonmormon. I am too. Listen I want to tell you how much I respect how you handled this in regards to your girlfriend and her family. NO one has a right to treat them as you say your family has. I always say there is a family out there for everyone. It may not be your bio family but they will care for you and love you. That is all that counts. I am grateful for them - helping you as they have.

As far as the GA situation I am not able to speak on that being a nevermo. Just go with your gut feeling if you attend this gathering. IF you still wish to have a relationhip with any of these people you must be the one to draw the line in the sand. Tell them what you will and will not put up with. For sure you want no testimonies given and no hurtful things said about your girlfriend. If they can't do that, I am afraid this may be the last gathering you have together. They must respect your adult decisions. Best wishes. And heck if you marry this girl you can do it YOUR way and not the Mormon way.

Thanks for the reply , good advise by the way my gf says +1 to you lol

Oh to clarify my gf and her family are all nonmormon

Why do you hide the church's history? If the church really is true then it can hold up to scrutiny.

why doesn't the church act like the mainstream church it pretends to be and publish its finances? why do the members get so little of their money for programs, shouldn't they benefit from the money they give?

Ask him some of the questions that have been bothering you. Ask them in a straightforward, non-accusing, loving manner. If he hedges, or starts bearing his testimony, or evades your questions entirely, say, "You haven't answered my question." Don't let him off the hook. Don't let him tell you to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. You have probably already read it, and tell him so. We would love for you to return and report what some of his answers were.

What to tell him.... Tell him what you believe in! You know best what that is. For example, if you believe in Jesus, tell him about that. If you believe in getting an education, let him know that, too. Think of all the other good things in your life, such as your future plans, your relationship with your girlfriend and her parents, your future career--whatever lights your fire within. A good dose of zeal is difficult for these GA types to shut down. Don't attack his religion. Don't debate
the issues.

I had a close relative who was a GA, and we talked mostly about sports, boating, fishing, food, traveling, books. We had a lot in common besides just the Mormon church. You might want your rare and special visit with your family to be about ALL THAT YOU ARE, and not about that little unimportant piece of dung that is Mormonism. Does the cult really color your family's entire life?

Yes unfortunately my entire family is consumed by that church. They honestly know little about their own son because they were more involved with their church callings and what they needed to do for church than anything to do with their own kids outside of church.

All I would do is just talk about the weather and grandkids.

We already know everything they will say- commit yourself to the church and be blessed. No matter how they word it, the message and the answer to every question is to commit yourself to their idea of the gospel.

What I think you need to remember is that YOU DON'T OWE ANYONE ANYTHING.

You don't owe them an explanation. You don't owe them a defense of your new "beliefs"/"unbeliefs."

There isn't ANY question that you have to answer. And you don't have to put up with a "worthiness" interview either.

If you go, just keep in mind that YOU are in control of the conversation and then act like it.

Again, You don't OWE anybody ANYTHING. And you don't have to answer ANY of their questions.

And if there isn't anything that they could ever say that could get you back, then that's the end of it.

The more questions you ask of them, the more bullshit responses you'll get.

How much shit do you want spewed at you?

Keep all of that in mind.

TBM priesthood holding geezers who have a little authority are notorious for telling young single men that their Non-mormon girlfriend is controlled by satan and is leading them down the wrong path in life.

It seems that your girlfriend's family is more Christ-like than your own Mormon family. Tell him that & Stand up for her.

He may also suggest that he knows a wonderful LDS girl that he would like you to meet, possibly a general authority's grand daughter.....some kind of shit like that.

Stand firm & let him know how happy you are to be living your own dream and not someone else's Dogma. (In the word's of Steve Jobs)

Let us know what happens.

There is only one question left.

Why won't the GA's answer the doctrinal questions of the members?

What could possibly be more important than doctrine and keeping the confidence of the members that the GA's have answers from revelation?

Why would they entrust matters of doctrine to local bishops, who are just laymen volunteers who are trying to support a family while the GAs are paid?

That being my fantasy vent, you are dealing with a family situation, so talking about gardening during weather changes, food storage, grandchildren and not about the gospel and how the Mormon version doesn't meet your needs.

Good luck

Anagrammy

with something like a third to a half of it's members being Latino, then why are there NO Latino apostles? Why are there NO Black apostles? Why has there NEVER, EVER been a non-White apostle in the Mormon church? (Tell him that his statements will become a matter of public record, so he needs to think carefully about his answer before he responds.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2011 02:15AM by Fetal Deity.

To start with, you might tell him this: if a Chinese person who doesn't speak English meets with an American person who doesn't speak Chinese, what can they talk about? How can they communicate? Answer: there is not any way!

That is essentially the same difference that you have with a GA. There is absolutely nothing in the area of religion and/or life choices that you can discuss. You are both so entrenched that any discussion is a total waste of time. You don't want to hear what he has to say and he does not want to hear your views or beliefs.

So ask him, what did you think about the St. Louis Cardinals and their winning the World Series? Ask him if he heard about the Cardinals fan who wagered $500 at a Las Vegas casino that the Cardinals would win the World Series (at a time when they appeared to be totally out of the race) and ended up winning $375,000?

Or as a last resort, what do think the weather will be like in the coming winter? Do you think that human activity is causing Global Warming?

you asked what questions i would ask. I don't know if you should ask the same questions. I don't know if he has REAL answers.

I would ask a GA:

.Why has the church lied about its history to 7 generations of my family?
.why isn't JS first version of his vision the official one?
.why the lies about his 30 some wives, to us and emma?
.why did all the witnesses leave and basically not have anything to do with mormonism? And why doesn't the church admit the witnesses only saw the book with their "spiritual eyes"?
. Why don't they tell the truth about JS, why he was really tarred and feathered,why he was really in jail, what his true occupation was that he was convicted for, how he really put the BOM together with his friends while pretending to translate with his face in a hat,why he didn't live the commandments like monogamy, why he wrote wow but blatantly didn't live it?

.Why the church claims he died as a martyr, but he really died in a gun fight. After having a drink.
.why is the temple ceremony plagiarized from the masons?
.why
BOM was plagiarized from the bible and a script from a book somebody else wrote?
.Why were most of his prophesies false if he was a true prophet?
.why did BY treat emma so poorly?
.why did BY lie about who wrote church history? what happened at the MMM? why are most of his teachings such as blood atonement, adam god theory,and polygamy now considered reasons to be excommunicated if you were to practice them? Him, and many prophets after him said the gospel does not change. Why do they say that if it isn't true?
.why won't they open up ALL of the historical archives, including journals of the top leaders?

.Why do they still teach obvious mistruth about doctrines and history in the lesson manuals and from the pulpit?
.Why won't they let us know where the money is going?
.Why do they insist the poorest people pay tithing?
.Why don't they do less construction and more humanitarian?
.What famlies in the hierarchy making $$$ because of church construction projects?
.why are they recycling names in the temple?
.why do they keep changing temple rituals that were declared as an unchanging commandment?
.why do they discriminate against indians, blacks, and women?
.why don't they come clean about the DNA issue?
.why don't they come clean about the BoA?
.if we have a living prophet why does he just sit and smile and tell stories that are trivial and meaningless. We live in a chaotic world. and the prophet just this there with a grin on his face, telling stories that are questionable in content.People are suffering,dying,starving, and....nothing.Nothing is making any sense. It seems like it is about money all of the time. i don't think that is what God and Jesus had in mind.
.
I would love to see the REAL answers to these questions. I feel like the church is constantly lying and hiding from the members. They appear to have no respect for us.They do not care about our questions and concerns. If i were to meet with my sp about these questions i would most likely get excommunicated. Why do they use fear and intimidation? Threaten our membership when we find out the truth? Threaten our eternal salvation and connection with family? why do they use our families to bully us into compliance? Why are they trying to steal inheritances by getting senior citizens to sign over their assets to the church?I'm sorry but those actions are of man. God loves me and does not treat me that way. The church leadership sits in its towers running the numbers and making more rules. There were people like that in the bible. it didn't turn out good for them

You asked what i would ask. That is about half the questions i have. get those answered, and i'll work on the other half.


.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2011 02:56AM by mia.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,114644,115130#msg-115130

If this is your story it sounds like your grandfather presided over a pretty sick family. Well its not your fault so I hope you have or will soon totally accept the fact that its not your fault. In fact its not his fault or your parents fault either IMO. They obviously were just born into the cult and thus they really don't know what they are doing. It sounds like you figured out at a young age that the church is BS and as a result you eventually broke free. What I'd suggest you do is that you meet your grandfather for lunch somewhere at a restaurant and not meet him at your parents' home. I'd also suggest that you take your GF with you if she's willing to go. However if she doesn't want to go (and I certainly wouldn't blame her to not go) then I'd suggest going by yourself. And from the start I'd suggest you grow some strong balls of steel (you probably have but just make sure they're reinforced) and take charge of the conversation. The purpose of the lunch is to find out what the church's official doctrine is on how extended family relationships ought to be regarding the matter of people exercising their free agency and the diversity of opinions on faith/testimony on what is true vs. what is error. And then I'd ask your GA grandfather specifically on the incidents on whether or not it was appropriate for your mom/others to scream at you, at your GF, at her parents, etc. and that you don't expect him to answer such questions now but that you await his answer via email and then you will watch/wait to see how his posterity who have done evil towards you repent.

Just my 2 cents. Of course you are free to do whatever you wish to do on this. And I wish you the best of luck.

Yeah unfortunately that's my story , thanks for the advise !

I agree with Alex. If you get a chance to have a heartfelt conversation with your GA grandfather, IMO it should be in service of asking him to promote respect for your choices among your family members. Cite the church's eleventh article of faith. But only you know if you can make any headway with him in this area.

I'm so glad for your sake that your girlfriend's family is providing some normalcy for you. They sound like keepers!

''That's a nice suit I bought for you''

Go F* yourself!

over the church, why would you want to go over there so they can try to convince you to go back to the the church?

You vs. all of them on their turf doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

If it were me, and I wanted to talk to the GA, I'd set up a one on one meeting with him. Did I mention ALONE?

As for a family gathering, I'd insist that any attempts to change your point of view are off-limits.


And a note on their treatment of your GF. Are they always that nasty to people they don't agree with?

Find a reason to not visit. Nothing good will come from this.

GAs' have always creeped me out since I was little kid.

We used to have Area Authorities in our ward for about five years. Whenever they would respond to a question in SS everybody turned and quietly listened to their response. The instructor then went on to another subject as if any further discussion would be considered “evil speaking of the lords anointed”.
On several occasions I continued to ask questions and it became quite the public spectacle. The worst example was when a GA said, “I feel impressed to correct some false doctrine that came from the pulpit in one of the Sacrament Meeting talks.” He then went on to misinterpret my talk and publicly rebuke what he thought I‘d said. When I responded that he had taken my remarks completely out of context and that wasn’t what I said at all he rose up from his pew, turned back and pointed at me and just glared. He clearly had never had anybody second guess him, at least not in public. I don’t recall if he actually said anything other than just the glare. It was a few seconds of uncomfortable silence while we had a staring contest. Then the instructor just continued on with her lesson. I wasn’t wrong. He was and I wasn’t gonna back down.
I guess my point is that from the personal experiences I’ve had with several GAs they are used to having their word be the end of any debate. Don’t expect anything different.

The other part is what he will say about you to the rest of the family afterward. He will NEVER say, "You know, the boy is right." Guys who are open minded and clear thinking enough to realize when they're wrong don't get called to be GAs. So whatever the two of you might talk about, he will spin it so that the church is still true and you are still wrong.

I could not bring myself to even attend such a meeting. Time and time again the GA's have had the opportunity to answer all the questions, and have failed to do so every time.

So I would not waste my time in a doctrinal meeting with one. However, he is your grandfather and if you can interract with him on a grandfather/grandson and non-judgmental basis then I would do that.

But, and this is a big "but", he will probably not be able to separate his GA status from his grandfather status. So you will still be subject to his judgment, counsel, and guilt tripping.

You are in a no-win situation, and I would find some way to miss this event.

Just my2cents...

I think would avoid the topic of Mormonism altogether, and tell your folks as much. You don't believe in it, and you're going to just have to agree to disagree. It's a temptation to explain why you don't believe, but it really isn't worth it. It might be nice to see your grandfather, but not to discuss religion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2011 12:59PM by Makurosu.

I would take the higher road.... The GA is not going to debate the church’s false doctrine and he will be expecting that you want to.

I would approach the subject of how the family is making it very difficult to even love them and be around them. Put them on the defensive and make a statement of how your family is a terrible representative of Mormonism to the rest of the world. That your GF's parents have a very bad taste for Mormons now and that will translate into even worse word of mouth down the road.

I'm Satan to my Mormon relatives for yanking my wife out. There is no love lost between us but I do throw sliders in every once in a while. It makes them think twice before opening their stupid pie hole and it keeps them at least acting normal around us.

Anubis

Say whatever you want to him, as your *grandfather*. Just because he holds a senior management position in TSCC doesn't mean you have to treat him any differently. To you, he is your grandfather, a close relative who you love as your family, not because of his position in a church you are not a member of.

I would go with the intent of having a great family get-together. Make it clear that you do not want to discuss the church. If uncomfortable discussions/questions come up, just quote the 11th Article of Faith. Tell him you love him, but we need to agree to dis-agree. Encourage them to move on to a different subject. Be prepared to graciously leave if you need to. Be gracious - it will make them wonder. TBMs like to play the guilt card big time - don't let them. TBMs would not act like they do if they knew there own religion.

Your GA GF may be the type that will not bring up the church, but instead be an example. Hopefully he is this type and you can convince him to talk to the rest of the family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2011 01:00PM by joelaban.

I guess I would ask him if he was aware of the many historical, foundational problems with the LDS foundational claims, and the present DNA issues discounting the Book of Mormon.

If he wasn't, I would encourage him to take some time and think about them as many committed LDS members are very troubled by this information.

And if so, I would ask him if the LDS church would ever be capable of encouraging compassion and empathy for those members who leave the church because of these matters.

My questions to the GA would be:

1. When was the last time you viewed porn?

2. Did you jack off to it?

3. How much do they really pay you, what about the big 15?

4. Seriously, you guys are getting sealed to other women right? I mean you are secretly living polygamy again, right?

5. Is Monson the big asshole I've heard from people who have been close to him? Tell us some stories!