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Posted by: FreeMe ( )
Date: November 01, 2011 03:45PM

So if the morg is so against paganism, why are it's symbols all over the SLC temple (and others)? Why all the ancient pagan symbology in the ceremonies?

And why is the pentagram inverted? The symbol of calling down the power of Lucifer, among other things. (It's even in the children's play area in the Church History Museum.) Is the LDS church Luciferian at the top levels and the cattle don't know it? Anyone notice how Lucifer says that his apron stands for his power and priesthood and then, almost right after that, tells us to hurry and put on aprons? Ummm...and we never take them off. And then, like is taught when occultists summon other spirits, we make covenants to keep ALL THE COVENANTS, and Lucifer turns and breaks the third wall, and faces us and tells us if we mess up we will be in his power... Basically giving our souls to him, because we will never completely keep "every covenant made in the temple this day". I know. Sounds far out. But it's all there.

One weird, crazy cult. Baptisms for the dead...offering up more souls? I'm kinda weirded out.

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Posted by: luckychucky ( )
Date: November 01, 2011 03:53PM

I have seen the meaning behing the inverted pentagram debated back and forth, so take your pick on that one. Your points about keeping all the covenants or being in lucifers power seem good and deserve more thought. Very interesting, thanks.

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: November 01, 2011 03:56PM

Read Palmer's book about mormonism's origins and that will become readily apparent to you.

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Posted by: kolobian ( )
Date: November 01, 2011 03:57PM

A careful analysis of kolobian doctrine in and out of the temple reveals that Lucifer is simply playing a role and is not the evil being we're led to believe he is.

Just like there is no endowment ceremony without some worthy temple recommend-holding priesthood holder playing the part of Lucifer there is no plan of salvation without some influential son of elohim playing the role of the adversary.

It's been stated time & time again that if Lucifer were truly evil and genuinely wanted to thwart the plan all he had to do was absolutely nothing.

The book of Job really shook my faith on the mission.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: November 01, 2011 04:05PM

Here's an interesting site if you haven't seen it yet:

And here is an interesting question: Why would a church that is almost obsessively concerned with avoiding the appearance of evil allow this symbolism to continue? No matter what it meant ages ago. No matter whether or not Satan really exists. It's like having swastikas all over the temple. When the temple was built, the swastika stood for the eternal cross but nowadays everyone thinks "Nazi". If the upside-down star nowadays stands for Satanism, why do they allow it to continue in prominence? Seriously, why?

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Posted by: id girl ( )
Date: October 14, 2017 01:39AM

I think it's interesting that government mind control survivors like Cathy O'Brien say the top church leaders are aware of mind control and approve of it. Mind control is linked to Satanism. My husband has reclaimed memories of being involved in government mind control by his family. He remembers having to demonstrate his "abilities" in front of the Mormon prophet.

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: October 14, 2017 01:55AM

Those were the popular folk magic symbols of the day, many appropriated from the Masons. Joseph Smith carried a Jupiter talisman his whole life and chose the founding date of April 6, 1830 for its occult significance.

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Posted by: incognitotoday ( )
Date: October 14, 2017 10:22AM

Can you say, cult? Devil is in the details.

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: October 14, 2017 11:11AM

JS also said the way to appease Satan so that they could get some hidden treasure was to get a black sheep (which he did) and slit it's throat, and lead it around in a circle, with the blood dripping down, where the treasure was supposedly hidden.
Lucifer is the leading character in the temple movies and the only one who seems to use any common sense and logic. He practically asks God, why are you getting on my case for doing what needs to be done and for making this couple more self-aware? JS and his family were believers in the occult. It's so bizarre, no matter which way you look at mormonism.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 14, 2017 01:20PM

Ahhh! the sheeple might see/read/understand this!


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Posted by: Joe the man ho & Brig the pig ( )
Date: October 15, 2017 01:51AM

Its funny I was just thinking about this and how creepy it was to have the star of Satan on the temple and you have a good point CA girl! Even if it did have a different meaning ages ago why keep it when it now has a much different and darker meaning?! And to have the pentagram in the children's area is just a GREAT place to have it isn't it? Also the baptismal font in the temple how it was modeled after animal sacrifices in Solomons temple is super creepy ugh what the hell?! And the whole mind control is used in satanism gives me the chills this religion is a lot darker than I ever thought and with the pentagrams on the temple if Satan really DOES exist then that just makes it SUPER creepy!

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Posted by: William Law ( )
Date: October 15, 2017 01:56AM


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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: October 16, 2017 12:43AM

The mormon church/cult is way worse than anything the devil could come up with in my opinion. It pretends to be something it isn't. Even satan was like this temple stuff is way more weird and evil than anything i could come up with, you may proceed.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: October 16, 2017 09:04AM

The pentagram dates way, way, way before the mormons.
It was used in early Christianity, usually representing the five wounds of Jesus.
It decorated the shield of the faithful knight Gawain in the 14th century English poem Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, where it represented Gawain being perfect in his five senses, faithful to the five wounds of Christ, and exemplifying the five virtues of knighthood.

The mormon temple use, however, is almost certain ripped off from the Freemasons (like many other symbols on the temple), where it's used (usually point-down like on the temple) as a symbol of the Masonic "Order of the Eastern Star." Having ripped off the temple ritual from the Masons, mormons likely meant it as a symbol of the "five points of fellowship," an external reminder on the temple for those who had done the nonsense inside, at the time known only to them.

Nothing "Luciferian" about it.

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: November 09, 2020 10:11AM

The swastika dates from long before Hitler but it is doubtful anyone would use it as a political or religious symbol today for anything other than Naziism.

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Posted by: fred too ( )
Date: November 09, 2020 02:18AM

as mortals we can choose to "resign" from the church and they must by law honor the request .

what if someone were to want to get the church to allow a non mortal
a dead parent for instance to "resign" from the church .
or at least to have the option , to "resign" from where ever they may be now ?

now that they are dead and see what the LDS hoax really is
i do not believe they would want to be associated with it ,
i could be wrong , none the less i would like them to have the option
separate themselves from that abomination .


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Posted by: thegoodman ( )
Date: November 09, 2020 08:10AM

Wow, this is old. Can we still talk about it? I am convinced that everything the LDS church outlines as evil, they actually do.

• The official First Vision account they use, where Satan attempts to overtake Joseph, then seconds before he is overwhelmed, suddenly "Jesus" and "God" show up and neither mention the evil being nor where it went or how it was defeated. They say Lucifer was an angel of light and can deceive people by looking light and beautiful. If the First Vision happened as stated, it looks like a convenient costume change to me.

• We are told that to test spirits, you must ask to shake their hand. Angels of the lord will do so and do the hand of the sign with you. Dead spirits will refuse because they don't wish to mislead you(um, okay). Evil spirits will stupidly, arrogantly attempt to shake your hand and there will be nothing physical. You know, instead of just lying and not touching you, especially now that we have a test with a definitive way to pass it without having to touch you. And this says nothing about the accounts of occult forces having the ability to mimic spiritual gifts, even so much as magic or telekinetic powers, so, if an evil spirit wanted to go full legit, could likely mimic a physical sensation if they wanted.
- In the visitations from Nephi/Moroni, there is no mention of this test being performed, not even for the sake of Moroni being like, "Yeah, I am a good guy but I can't prove it, because I'm just dead. Just shut up and trust me, Joe."
- Not even getting into depth how creepy it is that he stays all night to lecture Joseph, exhausting him. Then other accounts how he wasn't a dead Native American spirit but actually a toad that turned into a man and smacked Joseph on the head when he tried to take the plates. That sounds more demonic than angelic.

• Lucifers offering in pre-mortal existence was a desire for controlling everyone, making them behave perfectly. Setting aside the contradiction that a church that is designed for perfect obedience in order to reach heaven is anti-agency; if you don't get to be yourself and must transform and change entirely in order to be accepted, then it's not an individual choice to do good, it's in fact a gun to your head. Aside from that, the current church set up with temple worthiness interviews is in fact a form of reinforced behavior and thought control, making sure strict adherence in all aspects of life are occurring, with a standin for Lucifer(the Bishop or SP) making sure you're behaving exactly.

• The sacrament prayer is in fact an incantation for a spell that needs to be repeated until it is said perfectly. As well as the temple ceremonies and baptism prayers. When invoking the spirit, you need strength of intent and the right words to address the spirits you're seeking boon from.

I have more. Please, can we talk about this?

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Posted by: thegoodman ( )
Date: November 09, 2020 09:50AM

• Joseph used a seer stone to scry, which I guess is occultic but perfectly okay if the prophet does it. Oliver Cowdery used a divination rod which is essentially a Ouija board in function, using the same method of perceived movement as you get when the planchette moves on the board.
- Not to mention the rituals involved with treasure digging, drawing sigils on the ground, sacrifcing animals, digging on a particular night specific to appeasing certain entities, using invocations and incantations to bind the guardian spirits under ground, etc.

• "Setting apart" is terminology and ritual that is conducted in witchcraft to set certain items, locations, and events aside for a particular purpose, usually for the invocation of the help and blessing of certain spiritual entities for special work you want to be done.

• Those occultists familiar with Ordo Templi Orientis and Hermetic order of the Golden Dawn will recognize familiar language in the BoM.
- Nephite = Neophyte
- Laman - Layman
- Lamen - a magical talisman used to focus power and contact spirits for spellcasting.
- Mormon = Mormo - Greek God, king of the ghouls

• Lucifer/Satan is called the Great Deceiver yet the LDS church has multiple examples of lying through its history. Lying about polygamy repeatedly from day one when Joseph Smith practiced it. Lying about tithing and the salaries of church leadership. Missionaries encouraged to lie to converts and investigators with milk before meat doctrine. Lying about how the BoM was translated. Lying about Joseph Smith's death. Etc. It's layers and layers of deceptions, to the point where now the church and apologists try to claim credit for being open about some things for once(Gospel Topics Essays) despite their lack of prevalence in Sunday School teaching. How can you claim that Lucifer is the Father of all lies but then justify deceiving people about crucial doctrine? How can you claim a monopoly on all truth but then justify imperfect knowledge(we don't know/we'll find out in the next life)? How can you claim to never be led astray by leadership but in the next breath claim that making mistakes, saying things in error, and lying are human faults we should expect our leaders to have? It sounds like the Father of Lies has a certain place on a throne in this organization.

Mormonism is this Frankenstein monster of Kabbalistic Judaism and Christianity, both of which have pagan roots, mixed with Masonic and Wiccan rituals and symbols. It says paganism and occultism is evil and wrong, presenting these things as if there is a firm line between what is good and what is evil. Yet if you learn anything about paganism or the occult, you realize how much LDS has borrowed and blurred from these "evil" primitive practices and religions. If I believed in fairy tales like God or the Devil, I would say indeed, the LDS church was born from the Adversary influencing a young man to distort Christianity and Judaism in order to gain influence and power. But I don't. So, I merely believe the highest leadership of the church is playing games, like a 13 year old girl who just saw The Craft and thinks she can cast spells and influence the world by wearing black and playing pretend.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2020 09:51AM by thegoodman.

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Posted by: Catholic ( )
Date: December 17, 2020 07:08PM

I live in Salt Lake City and as I’ve learned more and more about the LDS faith and have ex Mormon friends and even an ex Mormon priest, I’ve been wondering these same things. Satanism is the worship of Satan but Luciferian is desiring to be a God yourself, which it seems pretty cut and dry that that is what the LDS expect when they die? To become a God? I don’t think anything could possibly be a greater sin than the desire to be equal to God

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Posted by: thegoodman ( )
Date: December 17, 2020 07:50PM

Ah, I didn't know that. I was going by the suggestions of paganism in the OP which as I outlined, clearly, the LDS narrative isn't as plain and simple as they'd like to proclaim. Then again, when has anyone during this process been shocked to find Mormonism abounds with contradiction?

But yeah, I think it was Lot's Wife who might have clicked it for my brain when she said something about the strict obedience demanded by the church of its members doesn't seem like good training to become Gods of our own planets and such. So, even if it was Luciferian according to the definition you provided, even STILL LDS cannot seem to stick to what they preach versus end goals.

If there were anything supernatural going on, my suspicion would be that it's something akin to Soylent Green. Make them think there's something glorious beyond the curtain waiting for the righteous and the faithful of this toxic, twisted sex cult. When in reality, Dark, sadistic overlords in the beyond are waiting to make those who show them the signs and tokens into eternal spiritual slaves. Sounds like LDS heaven anyway.

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Posted by: McNulty from Bawston ( )
Date: December 21, 2020 05:11AM

Catholic Wrote:
> I live in Salt Lake City and as I’ve learned
> more and more about the LDS faith and have ex
> Mormon friends and even an ex Mormon priest,
> I’ve been wondering these same things. Satanism
> is the worship of Satan but Luciferian is desiring
> to be a God yourself, which it seems pretty cut
> and dry that that is what the LDS expect when they
> die? To become a God? I don’t think anything
> could possibly be a greater sin than the desire to
> be equal to God

The notion is called apotheosis. Even though Roman Catholics deny such a doctrine, they do practise something similar.

When non-RCs or non-Orthodox people see the RCs, they see Mary everywhere, Catholics have exalted Mary to (near) divine status. She is "Mother of God" (rather than just Jesus), and "Queen of Heaven". They have created doctrines like the Immaculate Conception, Assumption, perpetual virginity etc which don't appear in the Bible. Her statue appears in just about every RC Church. She is even prayed to, or through, and is nearly a fourth member of the Trinity (or ?Quaternity?). Catholics tend to see Mary up in the sky, not Jesus.

RCs have an interesting attitude towards saints. They perform miracles and are prayed to. They get a kind of apotheosis too, and in some places are thinly veiled pagan gods.

The Hail Mary is commonly said among Catholics:

HAIL Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
PRAY FOR US sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.

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Posted by: McNulty from Bawston ( )
Date: December 21, 2020 05:20AM

thegoodman Wrote:
> • Those occultists familiar with Ordo Templi
> Orientis and Hermetic order of the Golden Dawn
> will recognize familiar language in the BoM.

> Mormonism is this Frankenstein monster of
> Kabbalistic Judaism and Christianity, both of
> which have pagan roots, mixed with Masonic and
> Wiccan rituals and symbols.

Kabbalistic Judaism and Masonry, yes.

OTO, Golden Dawn and Wicca, no. These three were set up AFTER Joseph Smith had died. Wicca is far more recent and started in the twentieth century in fact.

There is a stronger case for OTO influence on Scientology. Hubbard actually did belong to that group for a time and it predated him. He incorporated aspects like Operating Thetan (or OT), pronounced like Satan with a lisp.

Now whether OTO, Golden Dawn and Wicca have roots going back before their foundation is another issue. If Smith took inspiration it would be from predecessors. It's annoying that in pop culture Wicca is confused with traditional witchcraft, which is not the same thing at all. Wicca has a lot of modern elements in it, but like the LDS claims to be a restoration of ancient things.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 09, 2020 10:33AM

This was posted 11012011 which is a chiasmic date so it must be true.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: November 12, 2020 09:55PM

It was probably a nocturnal chiasm.

Or an Omar Chiasm.

OK, I'll stop now. :)

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: November 12, 2020 11:44PM

You want your chiasmic date to have multiple chiasms.

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Posted by: William Law ( )
Date: December 17, 2020 07:44PM

The LDS church is not. Resurrecting a long-dead post is.

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Posted by: dogbloggernli ( )
Date: December 17, 2020 08:00PM

Pagan symbols can be found in old catholic structures too

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Posted by: ufotofuNLI ( )
Date: December 18, 2020 03:43AM

FreeMe Wrote:
> ... Baptisms for the dead...offering up more souls? I'm kinda weirded
> out.

Nothing to be alarmed about.

Mormonism Is Dead

It killed itself

A hole in the soul

Couldn't fill the hole
Couldn't feel the hole

Holy Ghost slipped out
Simply floating away
No reason to stay

Went out to play

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: December 18, 2020 05:33PM

Lucifer, I'm home.

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Posted by: McNulty from Bawston ( )
Date: December 21, 2020 04:57AM

If you get a street map of Washington DC, there is a pentagram formed by the streets. Its point starts at the White House. I once told someone this and they said it was a conspiracy theory, but when I showed it to them, they started getting cognitive dissonance. Pentagrams are popular, they are used by the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Esperanto speakers, Communists, Masons, Walmart, the European Union, the US Army, Morocco and many other groups with no connection to one another.

I think the LDS and Lucifer have an interesting relationship. If you do not stand up to all the Covenants, you are supposedly in his power, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to commit to them 100%. I think that's why many people do not like the Endowment. Lucifer also wanted obedience in his Plan yet offered Free Agency with the fruit. There is something odd in that story too.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: December 21, 2020 05:43AM

The LDS church is not Luciferian. It does not practice the left side of the occult. The LDS church is a hodgepodge of things from early 19th century folk magic (which was common in those days), New England Protestantism and free masonry. The symbolism in the temple is derived from free masonry. The upside down stars are eastern stars and not satanic pentagrams.

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Posted by: Mr X ( )
Date: December 21, 2020 06:05AM

Rubicon Wrote:
> The LDS church is not Luciferian. It does not
> practice the left side of the occult.

Left/right needn't be luciferian.

Left Hand Path: self-focused, transgression of societal rules, hiding one's spiritual practices (occult, spells in private). Aimed at acquisition of wealth, sex and power. Focused on this life.

Right Hand Path: community focused, obedience to rules, doing spiritual practice in public (proselytizing, F&T). Aimed at humility, chastity and helping the needy. Focused on the next life.

As you can see, the LDS has a mixture of BOTH of these paths. As does society in general. Traditional western culture is right handed, whereas the left hand is promoted by pop culture, Hollywood and the ad industry. The lockdown has seen a return to right hand activity for the public, but in the church as elsewhere, it can often seem like most members are right hand, but the leaders can often be left hand when it comes to hiding doctrine, changing the rules or doing things differently.

Let's look at the right and left handed aspects of LDS history:

* Left hand: endowment, sealing, polygamy, some aspects of the priesthood, becoming a god, garments, covenants, secret names, lines of authority, cursing the killers of JS.

* Right hand: serving a mission, welfare, service projects, law of chastity, monogamy, baptism, word of wisdom, confessing, blessing

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Posted by: Mr X ( )
Date: December 21, 2020 06:17AM

Right/left groups in society (not just religious ones)

* Left: Tantra/Sufism/Yoga (because they concentrate on self), Punk (for being transgressive), Scientology (hidden aspects), Law of Attraction/Prosperity Gospel, Hollywood, MLMs

* Right: mainstream Christianity & Islam, homeless shelters, lockdown, serving in the military, Random Acts of Kindness movement

Buddhism has aspects of both of these. As does Freemasonry (since it has secret ceremonies but also emphasizes community service). Mormonism too.

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